Talk:Gringo

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Much of that which is below is inaccurate, excepting the assertion that the etymology traces back until at least the 17th century. The term is a variation on the Greek word, griego, or "foreigner." Hence "esto para los labradores era hablarles en Griego o gerigonça" which mutated to gringo.

I read that the derivation of the term "Gringo", referring to a amercian by Latin Americans, came from the song "Green Grow the Lilacs"¹, which was often sung by US soldiers during the invasion of Mexico just prior to WW I. Any basis in fact, or is this yet another cute folk etymology? And in either case, does it warrant listing in the article?

I always learned that the term barbarian comes from the latin word for beard "barbam" because the tribes outside of rome grew long beards, while for many years it was highly unfashionable for a roman to have facial hair. This ended with Trajan, ironically a roman of celtic (barbarian) origin

¹Or maybe "Green Grow the Rushes-O", a Scots song. Jor 14:15, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)


The song is Irish and the term is also suppose to come from the San Patricios. The San Patricio FYI (As it most likely wasn't in your history book) http://www.vivasancarlos.com/patrick.html http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/SS/qis1.html http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/ah/1955/4/1955_4_20.shtml

The following is from Joan Corominas's Diccionario Crítico Etimológico Castellano e Hispánico:
esto para los labradores era hablarles en Griego o gerigonça. 1615 Quijote II.
In the 18th and 19th century, the word appears deformed as gringo, desde Terr.[?]:
gringos llaman en Málaga a los estranjeros, que tienen cierta especie de acento, que los priva de una locución fácil y natural Castellana, y en Madrid dan el mismo nombre con particularidad a los irlandeses"
Applied to people, also in Estébanez Calderón (no pocos gringos y extranjeros) and Emilia Pardo-Bazán (más vale una chula que treinta gringas)
--Error 00:42, 15 Feb 2004 (UTC)

When I was in Chile, I was given an explanation that combined the Mexican-American war and Brazilian examples: The American soliders occupying Mexico city wore green and the locals yelled at them "Green, go!" Also, I was told that "gringo" specifically applies to persons from the USA because they call the US "los Estados Unidos" and the term for a person from "los EU" is very long and clumsy (I never learned it properly, but it is something like "estadounitiense"). AdamRetchless 13:45, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Estadounidense. Yes, it is a little long. — Chameleon

Actually my sources have an alternative and cuter explanation for the term gringo.

It seems that the Mexicans may have based the term on a misunderstanding of a popular north american song. The song was either "Green Grow the Rushes, Oh!" or "Green Grow the Lilacs" (itself based on the Scottish song "Green Grows the Laurel" and about an American solidier's love of a Mexican woman). The listening Mexicans could only make out the first few syllables, "Green Gro" and used it as a term of abuse.

Opinion is divided as to what period the term stems from. Either from the days of cowboys in south Texas, or during US army efforts to find Pancho Villa.

Gringo from greek!! -> Completely wrong!!

It does not apply to white skinned people either. In mexico a gringo can be black, chinese, white, yellow or blue... the only requirement is to be comming from the USA. Sometimes British people are mistaken by gringos, but once that it is clear where they come from the nickname gringo does not apply anymore.

Gringo does not come either from the song... Imagine the time of the American invasion to Mexico **american music being sang or broadcasted via Radio! No!

As per the history learnt and the old people in Mexico, the accurate definition comes from nationals from Mexico shouting "green go" to the invaders as they were using green soldier clothes. +green go+ GRINGO < the way it sounds in Spanish.

Contents

[edit] Etymology

Gringo from Greek? Never heard this before. Never heard a Spanish speaking person of any country remfer to an incomprehensible language as "griego" I bet ALL Latin Americans when confronted with a foreign language or characters have the same reaction: "That's 'chino' (Chinese)" not griego!?

I Don't understand why a poorly reasoned etymology is placed as the preferred origin of a word. Then present a "fake etymology" with a lengthy explanation including historical facts.

Read above, the usage goes as far as Quijote. Corominas is the authority on Spanish etimology. And there is the Shakesperean That's Greek to me. -- Error 01:37, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

"Never heard a Spanish speaking person of any country remfer to an incomprehensible language as "griego": One reason for this is that the supposed etymology would be much more ancient. I understand that the The word "greek" or "grecian" is derived from Latin and originally meant "foreign", rather than being specific to the Hellenic states. This meaning did survive in a number of romance languages. The "green coat" theory sounds much paler to me, for one thing it seems unlikely that a localized war would result in such a generalized epithet.

"Gringo" meaning light skinned? I have never heard the word "gringo" used in such a neutral way: it always connotates nationality (usually U.S., often Canadian, sometimes any predominantly white-European foreign nation). It sounds as though somebody has confused the word "gringo" with "güero".

The Diccionario de la Real Academia Española doesn't provide an etymology, it just says that it is "debated" [1]. I don't think the "griego" story should be presented as a fact, if apparently an authority such as RAE doesn't buy it. Itub 18:33, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
As far as etymology's concerned, the RAE are amateurs alongside Corominas. María Moliner is happy with the "griego" explanation, too. It might not be 100% certain, but it does seem the most likely alternative. –Hajor 18:44, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

This line is quite unclear and appears to be redundant, removed 14:33, 30 May 2006 (UTC):

Edit 21:55, 27 May 2006 201.145.108.67
Also is important to say, that in Mexico was used as "Green Go" that is pronounced in spanish as "gringo", this was used by people that dislike american soldiers.

[edit] Applications

Two details I guess could be included in the article:

1. In Brazil, the term is usually understood as a synonym for "foreigner", but it's preferably applied to North-Americans (U.S. and Canada) and Europeans. It is especially used when refering to a particular physical appearence, namely tourists with transparent-white skin, usually already reddish from exposure to the sun. In that context, Germans, Scandinavians and North-Americans are the main "target". Although the expression is not pejorative, people do avoid saying it to a foreigner, as they use it only when talking about them. The term is usually not applied to citizens of Latin American countries, if the locals happen to know the place of origin of a foreigner, even if they too are transparent-white.

2. In Mexico, the United States are jocosely dubbed "Gringolandia", a pun with "gringo" and "Disneyland" (Disneylandia in Spanish), the former being an association with people from the U.S. and the latter with the country itself.

Regards, Redux 05:59, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

3. Currently in the American Southwest I have noticed that 'Anglo' is a bit less complementary than 'Gringo.' This was referred in a documentary on Los Angeles and I'm aware of it here in northern New Mexico where I do construction with both hispanic Nortenos and Mexicans, as well as other Latin Americans. In the Los Angeles documentary the 'anglos' were the 'ricos' of 'West LA' whereas 'gringos' were just other working stiffs of European descent. I'd be interested if others are aware of this pattern.

4.The story I was told, and I will repeat it as a curiosity only, is that in the late eighteen hundreds Colonel William Green bought mining rights in Cananea, in the northern part of Sonora, 40 miles from the US border. After a few years of explotation,in 1906, the Mexican workers decided to strike. conflict followed and then 25 miners were killed by gunfire.During later demonstrations people chanted "Green Go!"; meaning "Colonel Green, Go Home". People ignorant of the english language heard this and repeated the words as "gringo!". Perhaps in a derogative fashion. However, as a Mexican myself, I have never used the word in a pejorative way nor do I remember anybody using it as an insult, but mostly to describe a white north American.


[edit] "Green go"?

Gringo comes from "green go" and used for reference to American soldiers during the Mexican-American War since their uniforms were of color green. The standard uniform of regular U.S. Army soldiers in that war was BLUE, not green. The various State militias, who made up a large portion of the United States' order of battle, wore a wide variety of different "uniforms". Quite a few units even had no standard issue clothing. So it would seem Green Go is a NO GO, at least as far as uniforms are concerned.--R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) 21:54, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

  • Don't sweat disproving the 'green go' etymology because etymolgists have been trying to do so for years and certain people would rather believe in a ridiculous folk etymology, especially one which reinforces the type of cultural pride which use of the racist term is meant to elicit...like all racial slurs. I don't think the bolding of , the US Army did not use green uniforms, but blue ones is necessary since the whole thing is listed under 'folk' i.e. 'not true' etymology.--Hraefen 18:19, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
    • Careful about saying 'Folk' is 'not true' in all forms. *mutters under breath* 15:03, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
  • If it was 'true', it would not be 'folk,' it's usually a pretty simple determination. What some people believe is the truth about a word's origin is often proved not to be true, but some people cling to the wrong derivation for various reasons. This is not to say that folk etymology isn't a powerful force in semantic change and etymology in general. Folk etymologies are kinda like myths: most people don't believe that they're true (although some do), yet they still have the power to move our moral imaginations.--Hraefen Talk 15:14, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My friends & I use the term

We allways refer to people that are of european(white) ancestry.

[edit] Emminent Gringos

What's up with this section? Why are the two names listed more eminent than the other hundreds of millions of gringos? I think the section should be deleted. Itub 13:18, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gabacho

I heard on the radio (NPR) a Mexican-American saying that Mexicans use the term 'gabacho' to refer to Americans, more often than they use 'gringo'. Can you confirm? If so, I think that this fact has a place in the article. ike9898 01:04, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The mere form of talk here proves one thing...

Nobody here knows a hheap of shit. In Mexicom, amercians' are scorned at and considetred 'Gringo', and somehow inferior. Also compare to militant mexican culture in the United states brought by the human migratory patterns bnears the southern amercian border.

Furthermore I have heard the term used as a negattive within the last three monthw, go listen to ctalk on the streets of LA.

[edit] The G Word

The term 'Gringo' is also used as a racial slur in the US. --70.225.67.134 00:02, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gringo is an offensive racial slur

Gringo is understood by the people it is used to describe as an offensive and insulting racial slur. It is no less offensive than the use of the word "spic".

It seems odd to me that the opening sentence of the article describes the word as 'racist', since the article goes on to say repeatedly that the word is often used quite innocuously. I.e. it is only sometimes racist. Hence I think the word 'racist' should be removed from the opening sentence, or at least clarified. 217.155.116.125 13:19, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
I agree. I depends on the intent of the person using it. It is similar to refering to someone a "Jew"; that is not necessarily offensive, but manner that some people use it makes it offensive. ike9898 16:35, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
I think the offensiveness of these terms is decided by those they are used against. In Australia the word abo is considered highly offensive by indigenous people yet many white Australians are unaware of this because they see it as just an abbreviation for aborigine. Another case is the term Third World. Even though it merely means those nations not aligned with either the United States of America nor the Soviet Union during the cold war, it is considered offensive enough these days that it is labeled politically incorrect and other terms such as developing nations are reccommended. — Hippietrail 23:38, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
In Brazil at least, in my experience, gringo is most often not offensive at all; it just means foreigner or maybe, more specifically, the typical foreigner who comes to the country as a tourist: someone who is very light-skinned and/or from a first-world country. In fact, I have even heard it used as a good thing, in slang. For example, if a certain product is of very good quality, it can be said that it "is gringo"; this, in analogy to a product being imported, and supposedly better than a domestically-produced item -- even if the product in question is not really imported. Please note, though, that I don't know how widespread this specific slang usage is; I'm just using it to illustrate that gringo is not necessarily (and I would guess rarely) pejorative (in Brazil).
But, of course, as it's been said, it could always be used in a negative way, depending on the context -- for example, if you are talking about something where foreigners are seen negatively. I could think, of for example, someone saying that someone else "plays football like a gringo", as Brazilians in general see themselves as better footballers than pretty much anyone else, and especially than the people who are usually identified with the word gringo. But I guess even in that case it's not the word that carries a bad connotation. --Cotoco 15:02, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
As briefly noted in this article, people in Brazil may occasionally use 'gringo' in a complementary way, but in Northern Latin America (Mexicans, Central Americans), the word 'gringo' is certainly not used as a term of endearment. It is an epithet. To be sure, it's an unthinking one for most people who use the term. But it's an epithet, nonetheless. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous. It's surprising that a term so loaded with such obvious racial and nationalistic connotations could be passed off as 'innocuous' by any serious observer. (Just because it easily rolls off the tongues of some people, that doesn't make it any less racial, and thus offensive.)
From what I've read, it's not done "occasionally", but almost always. The negative connotation of "gringo" in north and central America seems to be the exception. Let's remember how much larger South America is than northern and central Latin America, please. FilipeS 15:36, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cumbersome

The article says while the more specific term "estadounidense" ("one from the United States") is somewhat cumbersome to pronounce. Cumbersome? I find the term long and boring to pronounce but not ackward at all. Of course it is my opinion, so i want some feedback (from other spanish native speakers, please) about this statement. baloo_rch 01:18, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

i think cumbersome to pronounce is a fair characterization. of course this tidbit is open to an individual's opinion but as a spanish native speaker i think that this is a fair description. uri budnik 20:42, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Rather than talking about "cumbersomeness" (is this cumbersome enough?), it would be better to say that "gringo" is shorter than "estadunidense".

But that still does not go to the heart of the matter. The fact is that it's simply not true that the word "gringo" was coined for US citizens, or WASPS, or other Anglo-Saxons. It has a broader sense than that. The article is still misleading about this. FilipeS 15:42, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Green Go

I´m Mexican, my grandfather says that when the US army came to mexico a long time ago, mexicans not knowing english lenguage, wrote on the walls, like graffiti paints GREEN GO (thinking that means "green go away"), the used the color green because they got green eyes, and wear green uniforms.

  • See section 3 above. This is a thoroughly discredited etymology, but it is addressed in the article because it is so widely believed. The word gringo was in Spain before Spaniards came to the New World. You'd think this would be eveidence enough to discredit this theory, but alas...--Hraefen Talk 15:15, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

In section 3 above, I see not a date before 1615. The first reference to the term "gringo" (not griego") is dated in the XVIII century. Well post-Columbus. Furthermore, I see no connection at all between both terms. I wholeheartly agree that the common reference in Spanish for incomprehensive foreign language is "chino". Frankly, Cervantes litarary style cannot be considered that of the folk. On the other hand, in Venezuela, my home country, "gringo" is any American, in a completely non derogative way. In the 50's and 60's it was widely regarded as a Mexican term.

[edit] Languages

I will put Portuguese (It englobes all portuguese wether be european, brazilian...) instead of Brazilian portuguese because at least where I come from (north of Portugal) we use Gringo to refer to foreigners, especially Anglos.

My dad is portuguese from Lisbon I think, and he calls me and my mom a gringo/ga all the time and he always said it ment stupid man/woman.

[edit] Race irrelevant.

Why do some people insist on making distinctions of "white"/"non-white" when discussing cultural interactions of Latin and Anglo Americas? Contrary to popular belief, not every single person from Tiajuana to Tierra del Fuego is of Mestizo extraction. Latin America's population is incredibly diverse, with ancestries European, Indigenous, and African all well-represented. "Gringo" is a term I've heard used by Latin Americans of all colours to describe Anglo Americans of all colours.

From what I've read, you are quite right. The article is still too "Anglocentric" (in the US's sense of "Anglo"). FilipeS

It's not used in that way in Argentina and Uruguayat least so I change "It is used in "Latin America" for "it's used in some countries of L. AMerica"

[edit] "In Central America, the word is not pejorative, and sometimes is used to American expatriates to refer to themselves. "

In Central America, the term most certainly IS pejorative, and is wielded in exactly the same way "spic" might be against a Mexican.

Please source your claim which I find bizarre, 18:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

That some expatriates use it does not prove its innocuousness. Many blacks refer to themselves as "niggers," but this does little to render this term innocent.BulldogPete 04:01, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

It's a mistake to assume that all words which may on occasion be used despectively are as negative as "nigger". For example, "bitch" is one such word in English: possibly derogatory, though not necessarily so, but I think you'll agree it's not as strong an insult as "nigger". My impression is that foreigners tend to interpret local slang in an excessively negative way, disproportionate with how those terms are actually used by native speakers. FilipeS 14:36, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
Let's be honest: it's not a term of endearment. And the writer's assertion that it is "not pejorative" is certainly a matter of opinion -- and clearly a matter to be debated -- and something that does not belong in an article here stated as fact. BulldogPete 02:30, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I disagree that whether a word is pejorative is a matter of opinion. That sort of thing can be checked in a dictionary. That said, I am not particularly familiar with Central America. You may be right that the word is invariably an insult there. It isn't so everywhere, though. FilipeS 02:44, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

lol. It is not, IMO, used exclusively as an insult in Central America, mas bien its just used as a descriptive word, like black not nigger. I await some sources as the only way to resolve this, SqueakBox 18:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This article is pathetically biased. "Gringo" is a virulently racist term of hate.

Were this not a term used primarily to tar whites, the tenor of this article would be far different.

All of a sudden, the "intent" of the speaker is important, rather than the word. Never mind that the etymologies of "spic" and "gringo" are very similar. Gringo="greek" as in "wow, I don't understand what those weird foreign guys are saying."

"Spic"="spiggody" as in "You don't speak-a-dee English? I don't understand what you're saying."

Gringo = racist links:

Gringo on list of racist terms. [[2]]
"And I would point out that 'Gringo' is also a racial slur against White people by the hispanics!!! Why do we allow the racist term Gringo to be used against us without an outrage and a demand for the hispanics to stop using it??" [[3]]
"I as a white american consider 'gringo' to be a racist term." [[4]]
Gringo is used by the racist hate group MEChA. "In the spirit of a new people that is conscious not only of its proud historical heritage but also of the brutal 'gringo' invasion of our territories..."
"By the way, if you think that 'gringo' is a term of brotherly affection, you are wrong. It is not an insult on the level of 'wetback' but is on a par with 'spick' which is not acceptable speech by any 'gringo.'" ttp://www.anklebitingpundits.com/content/?p=1217#comment-31791
"A racist term used by Mexicans and other hispanics referring to Americans - a hateful term used frequently and commonly." [[5]]
"I just wanted to comment that GRINGO is a racist term... same as beaner, or the N word... so if you say gringo yet claim to not be racist.... guess what you are?" [[6]]
From http://www.answers.com/topic/gringo:
grin·go (grĭng'gō) pronunciation
n. Offensive Slang., pl. -gos.
Used as a disparaging term for a foreigner in Latin America, especially an American or English person.
[Spanish, foreign, foreign language, gibberish, probably alteration of griego, Greek, from Latin Graecus. See Greek.]
WORD HISTORY In Latin America the word gringo is an offensive term for a foreigner, particularly an American or English person.

Let's stop the bias and call this hateful term what it is: racist.87.117.199.130

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