User talk:Greaterlondoner

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[edit] Welcome!

Welcome!

Hello, Greaterlondoner, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  Looks like you are off to a good start. DavidH 15:58, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyrights

Hello Greaterlondoner. I'm sorry if I was a bit hasty in listing all your articles on Wikipedia:Copyright problems. When you edited most of your images out of of the related articles last night, but then stopped, and hadn't answered my message on this talk page, I really didn't know whether you were going to make any sort of response or explanation. So I waited until this morning and then started listing them.

To answer you questions about logos and other copyrighted images, I think you need to read the image use policy and the page on fair use of copyrighted material in Wikipedia. Fair use is a special exception to copyright in U.S. law (under which Wikipedia primarily operates). Logos are fair use because they are unique - in order to illustrate the TfL article with an appropriate logo, which is an important piece of information about that organisation, we have to use their copyrighted image, so it is fair use, as long as we don't try to pretend to be TfL or to be approved by them. Similar reasoning allows some book covers, screenshots, etc. to be fair use. On the other hand, their pictures of rolling stock aren't fair use, as we could perfectly well go and take our own pictures. Taking pictures from other sources besides TfL is even less likely to be fair use. Crediting the source is not enough.

It's also an important aim of the Wikipedia project to generate free content, so it's clearly preferable to make our own images if we can. The TFL images were also only 150 pixels or so, which is pretty small really, and reduces their usefulness in the long term. Putting them in the article might discourage people from going out and taking good, high quality free images of LU rolling stock, which would be really nice to have.

I hope that answers your questions.

By the way, you should probably also read up on the extended image syntax so that you can put (high quality, free) images into articles in nice frames with captions, etc. You might also like to look at the Copyright FAQ which probably explains copyright issues better than I could.

Again, sorry if we (or specifically I) came over a bit heavy-handed. --rbrwr± 21:30, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

ps. take a look at Image:BT corp logo.JPG and Image:Transport for London logo.gif to see two different "fair use" templates in use, explaining the special staus of those images. You can hit "edit this page" to see the source of the image description with the templates in use. --rbrwr±

Thanks for your reply. I don't think there was ever a great danger of you being blocked from editing - if you had gone on uploading copyright-violating images and putting them into articles after being asked not to, to the point where it started to look like vandalism or deliberate disruption, then you probably would have picked up a 24-hour block; but you're in no danger of that now. If you aren't able to take your own pictures at the moment, you could look at some of the sites listed on Wikipedia:Public domain image resources (though they tend to be U.S. government sites). You could also try e-mailing website owners and asking them to release their pictures to the public domain or under an appropriate license, or looking for images elsewhere that are already freely licensed. Anyway, I hope you find a way to contribute to the project. --rbrwr± 17:32, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image credit

Whne you upload an image you will see a box on the upload form marked "Summary". In this you should put description of the image, details of its source, and an appropriate copyright template. for example, you might put:

A train of [[London Underground]] 1973 stock running on the [[Piccadilly Line]] near [[Cockfosters tube station]]. Taken by [[User:Greaterlondoner]] on 5 August 2005. {{gfdl}}

This will then appear on the image description page and can be amended in the normal way for editing pages. For example, see the image description pages for one of my photos. If you are contributing your own pictures to Wikipedia you have to license them under the GFDL (though you can additionally release them to the public domain or under additional licences such as one of the Creative Commons licences). --rbrwr± 21:20, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Templates and help

Hi, you asked about codes for deletion and other issues on my talk page. There are a few places you can check. You can go to Help:Contents for lots of useful information. If you think a page qualifies for speedy deletion, you can add {{db|reason}} to the page--replace the word "reason" with the reason why you think the page should be deleted immediately (without going through the votes for deletion process). Be sure to read the Criteria for speedy deletion page and the Deletion policy page for the votes for deletion templates. for information about getting help with disputes see the Disputes page. Hope that gives you some answers. DavidH 09:57, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Congratulations!

Moved from my User Page: Greaterlondoner, I have decided you are worthy of the Original Barnstar for the many helpful edits you have made to articles on this fantastic online encyclopedia. Your help in building up articles particluarly in the London Underground genre have and will be extremely useful for Wikipedians and any other internet users, as there are thousands worldwide, who will use articles such as those to gather information. Thank you from both myself and the Wikimedia Foundation as a whole. Louis23rd

I would just like to congratulate you on the Barnstar I have awarded you on behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation for the many helpful edits to articles that you have made on Wikipedia recently. Please view your user page to see this. Louis23rd 18:02, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Two baker streets

Hi. You uploaded Image:Bakerstreet.PNG and Image:Baker street.PNG; I guess the latter is redundant. You may wish to place a speedy delete tag on it, as it seems to be identical to the former. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:18, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyrights

Hi Greaterlondoner, sorry to keep on going on about this, but it is something we need to get right. You tagged Image:BExchange.jpg as GFDL. Can you give a source this image? Is it a photo you took? And before you ask again the reason that I reverted your change to this talk page in the past is because you are trying to hide criticism. Edward 17:32:56, 2005-08-19 (UTC)

Edward, it is only your view that I was removing criticism. I actually wanted to draw a line under what had happened and move on, as I am tying to now. Have a look at my last edit summary in the history of this page. What brought you to my page in the first place? I really can't be bothered with explaining the copyrights of pictures now so if there are any uploaded by me that you take exception to (as I'm sure there will be) then simply add them to the list for deletion. Taking action before you get the facts seems a habit of yours anyway so I'm sure you won't find it a problem. You may consider this a rude response but I'm sick and tired of the rude people I have come across, only in 3 days. Why should I try being civil when they can't? They included you. I'll be sticking to uploading only logos now since nobody will have decent grounds to complain against them as well as making edits (that some users dislike; when I change their work). See this message -
Copyrighted

This is a logo of an organization, item, or event, and is protected by copyright and/or trademark. It is believed that the use of low-resolution images of logos

qualifies as fair use under United States copyright law. Any other uses of this image, on Wikipedia or elsewhere, may be copyright infringement. Certain commercial use of this image may also be trademark infringement. See Wikipedia:Fair use and Wikipedia:Logos.

Use of the logo here does not imply endorsement of the organization by Wikipedia or the Wikimedia Foundation, nor does it imply endorsement of Wikipedia or the Wikimedia Foundation by the organization.

To the uploader: please add a detailed fair use rationale for each use, as described on Help:Image page#Fair use rationale, as well as the source of the work and copyright information.

Greaterlondoner 18:58, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Can you tell us the source of Image:BExchange.jpg? Did you find the photo on the Internet? We don't need to delete it if the Image copyright tag is correct. Edward 19:03:21, 2005-08-19 (UTC)
I did find the photograph on the internet, emailed the man who ran the site and was told it was could be used. Greaterlondoner
What was the URL? Edward 19:10:44, 2005-08-19 (UTC)
Bye Bye Edward (your cue to leave me alone now). Greaterlondoner
I don't understand. Are you saying the source is a secret? Edward 20:14:38, 2005-08-19 (UTC)
I'm saying leave me alone. Greaterlondoner

[edit] blocked as sockpuppet of Irate

I believe you are a sockpuppet of Irate, and I am blocking you for 24 hours for disruptive behavior. -- Curps 22:19, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

If you want to be left alone, then stop editing Wikipedia. If you want to make contributions to Wikipedia, you have to be prepared to answer polite inquiries, especially over copyright issues. -- Curps 22:22, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Several separate users have made copyright inquiries regarding the images you've uploaded. First, User:Pacific Coast Highway: you simply deleted his inquiry without any response: [1] [2]. Later User:Rbrwr and User:Edward also expressed concerns.

When Edward inquired, you merely replied

I did find the photograph on the internet, emailed the man who ran the site and was told it was could be used

but then you refused to give any URL or other information. [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] However, please read Wikipedia:Copyright#Image_guidelines, in particular: Images on the internet need to be licensed directly from the copyright holder or someone able to license on their behalf. We can't license from the copyright holder if you refuse to tell us who that is.

Earlier in this talk page, you also wrote I really can't be bothered with explaining the copyrights of pictures now so if there are any uploaded by me that you take exception to (as I'm sure there will be) then simply add them to the list for deletion. [8] Unfortunately, if you are really unwilling or unable to provide sources for the images, we would likely need to do just that. For legal reasons, we can't take such a cavalier attitude towards copyright.

Please respond to copyright inquiries in the future, in particular Edward's inquiry which is still pending. If you're not willing to do so, I think it would be fair to ask you to refrain from uploading images. -- Curps 23:52, 19 August 2005 (UTC)


You have also been uncivil [9]. Please read Wikipedia:Civility, which is an official Wikipedia policy, and also Wikipedia:No personal attacks.

You added a Vfd message to User talk:Edward: [10] This is considered vandalism. You did this in response to his reverting your blanking of another user's inquiry on your talk page, but nevertheless it wasn't an appropriate response. It is also rather odd that a relatively new user should be so instantly familiar with the Votes for Deletion feature of Wikipedia, which only adds to the suspicion that you are a sock puppet of a certain former user. -- Curps 23:52, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Curps, all that was sorted out. Theresa Knott informed me of the No Personal Attacks Policy. I sorted out everything with User:Rbrwr|Rbrwr]], felt no need to respond to Pacific Coast Highway since that concerned the same images in question with Rbrwr. You have also ignored the reasoning I gave for removing all the messages that Edward then reverted. I told Edward and I will tell you as well, I no longer needed those messages. I sorted through all the pictures under dispute and then thought there was no point keeping those messages. It was my version of spring cleaning (I don't know how to archive). You really didn't have to get involved here. I know I shouldn'[t have called you a creep though in the edit summary.

[edit] Image:Oyster card in use.jpg

Image deletion warning Image:Oyster card in use.jpg has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. If you feel that this image should not be deleted, please go there to voice your opinion.
The image linked above has now been deleted.

Greaterlondoner

[edit] Bygones

OK, no problem.

My original message to you may have been a bit terse (in rapidly dashed-off "e-mail" style)[11] but I didn't think it was impolite. Perhaps it was open to misinterpretation. We can assume good faith on both sides and move on. -- Curps 17:30, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Heathrowstns.PNG

Image deletion warning The image Image:Heathrowstns.PNG has been listed at Wikipedia:Copyright problems because it is a suspected copyright violation. If you know that the image is legally usable on Wikipedia, please provide the necessary information.

I'm not sure whether the 'fair use' exemption is applicable; you at least need to change the copyright block as it is certainly not GNU! Sapient 15:42, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

I think the 'Fair use' Tag works better, but I am no lawyer! Taking a step back for a moment, does a small graffic of the station on a map really add that much in itself, never mind the copyright issues? I'm not trying to diminish your efforts here, and it's dangerously easy to nit-pick, but does Image:Uxbridge.PNG really add anything, for example? Sapient 18:46, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

The principle here is this: if a work (such as the tube map) is copyright, then a derivative work from it (such as a small detail) is under the same copyright. You therefore cannot release Image:Heathrowstns.PNG under a licence of your own such as the GFDL. Fair use is the best we can do in such cases, if it is applicable. I find {{verifieduse}} a bit confusing, as it implies that Wikipedia:Fair use is a forum for "deliberation", whereas its present form is just a page of guidance on the topic. My guess is that a small excerpt from the tube map would be fair use on tube map but probably not on every station article; but I too am not a lawyer. --rbrwr± 19:59, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Hi Greaterlondoner. I just reverted your edits to the variety of tube station images. {{pui-disputed}} isn't an appropriate tag for them as their source and copyright status is not disputed: their source is the tube map and that is copyrighted by Transport for London. {{imagevio}} is the right tag for these images, and they need to be listed at WP:CP rather than WP:PUI. --Ngb ?!? 17:25, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

That's ok, they already have been (listed for deletion). --Ngb ?!? 18:06, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for the rework of Banco Internacional do Funchal

I think I've looked at that page a hundred times and just couldn't come up with a good way to work it out. Thanks for dropping by and re-organizing! Its always helpful to have a new set of eyes on something. .:.Jareth.:. babelfish 14:12, September 9, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Buses in London

On 31 August 2005 you uploaded Image:Outsidestn.jpg and Image:Doubledecker.jpg and marked them "Released to the public domain by Transport for London" with a {{PD}} tag. Have they really been released into the public domain by Transport for London? Can you provide some evidence? Edward 17:25, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Pcwlogo.PNG has been listed for deletion

An image or media file you uploaded, Image:Pcwlogo.PNG, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you.

-- Thorpe talk 23:20, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 2012legacymap.jpg

Hey Greaterlondoner. Just to let you know I have removed Image:2012legacymap.jpg from the copyright violation list and marked it with this tag - {{promotional}}. I'm siding with you on this one. It was released by Transport for London and London 2012 as part of their promotion for the bid. I do not honestly see therefore why Edward felt he needed to label it as a copyvio. However, I do see several other images you have labelled as released to the Public Domain by TfL. They are not though and will be deleted. I've read through your talk page and looked at some of the comments you've made to other users so I can see you aren't acting maliciously but maybe you could consider being a bit more careful with what you upload. As you've found out, people round here can be a bit tetchy! Keep in contact with me if you need any kind of help with anything. Wikiwoohoo 18:57, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

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