Talk:Green Wing

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Green Wing is a former good article candidate. There are suggestions below for which areas need improvement to satisfy the good article criteria. Once the objections are addressed, the article can be renominated as a good article. If you disagree with the objections, you can seek a review.

Date of review: 12 December 2006

Who played the IT guy that Joanna Clore desperately fancied, and what was his character's name? -- The Anome 00:50, Nov 18, 2004 (UTC)

:Paterson Joseph (IMDB, pic) as Lyndon Jones (IMDB), I think. --rbrwr± 07:04, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC) Oh hang on, you've worked that out for yourself.

The show length is actually 65 mins [unsigned comment by 62.253.96.44]

That sounds about right to me, at least in terms of the slot it fitted into. Should the "run time" be the inclusive or exclusive of ads? --rbrwr± 17:35, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Exclusive, I think: the amount of advertising added can vary.

Contents

[edit] Green Wing soundtrack

I think the soundtrack music for Green Wing is one of the best I've heard for a television program. Does anyone know who the artist(s) is/are?

I recognize Kylie's tune in episode 5 during the party. Can anyone identify the artist and/or tunes for the rest of the program.

Another tune played during the party is by Kelis. It's called "Trick Me". It's kind of a reggae dance tune (what better for a party?).

A third tune played at the party during Series 1 Episode 5 is "Groovejet" by Spiller. Great dance tune.

One of the better pieces of the backing music is the one that starts with the acoustic guitar playing a G/B alternation which then fills in with a bass line.

user:drummondjacob - I second that. The baseline is unforgettable. Do you think it'd be worth C4's time to release a sountrack CD?

IMDB credits Jonathan Whitehead with "original music". He also did Black Books and Nathan Barley, among others. It could be his work. --rbrwr± 19:42, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

The credits roll shows "Original music" as credited to "Trellis". I have not been able to find any information about Trellis on the Internet. They may not be a band that has released any music for sale to the general public. (i.e. a contract band)

Trellis == Jonathan Whitehead. [1] --rbrwr±


I thought this week's episode (series 2 - ep 2) was much better than last weeks. Jooler 21:12, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I think the Beeb is making a mistake in not making a soundtrack CD of the incidental music. (or is GreenWing by ITV or Channel 4? -- I can't recall off the top of my head)

[edit] Simplifying the article

Does anyone else think that it might be a good idea to simplify the main article? For example, we could create an article just containing quotes using wikiquote, or one for the long-running jokes. There is already an article on Guyball. We could a template that would link all these sections together, or maybe a portal. ISD

The "characters" and "long-running jokes" sections are probably big enough that they could stand to be split off into their own articles, and it might not be a bad idea to shift the quotes entirely over to WikiQuote, too. I'm a bit leery of articles containing nothing but quotes from TV shows. If things do get split up, a small template isn't a bad idea (definitely not a portal, though). Microtonal 18:34, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I've created links so that the characters now have their own articles, but I'm afraid I do not know how to make a template. I have started a Green Wing category as well. ISD 08:30 (BST), 12 April 2006.

By definition only major characters should have their own articles. Minor characters should be farmed off to a single List of characters in Green Wing article if the page is too big, as per WP:FICTION. —Whouk (talk) 11:38, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
I think the major characters should each have an article (as some do now). As for the naming of this articles I don't think they should have qualifiers in the title - so Guy Secretan rather than Dr. Guy Secretan. This seems the general convention across wikipedia - for instance the ER characters don't have "Dr." in the article names.
Minor characters list can stay on the main page - there isn't enough content to justify a separate page. If we need to remove more content then possibly new articles for List of Green Wing episodes and List of Green Wing running jokes. I have already moved all the quotes to wikiquote. johnSLADE (talk) 18:32, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Below is my attempt a creating a template for use on Green Wing pages. If adopted as-is, the current article would need splitting. Comments? Jbattersby 20:16, 12 April 2006 (UTC)


Green Wing
Series 1 | Series 2
Characters:
Main Characters: Dr. Caroline Todd | Dr. Guillaume Valerie "Guy" Secretan | Dr. "Mac" Macartney | Dr. Alan Statham | Joanna Yardley Clore | Dr. Martin Dear | Sue White | Boyce
Minor Characters: Dr. Angela Hunter | Harriet Schulenburg | Karen Ball | Naughty Rachel | Kim Alabaster
Long-running jokes:
Hair | Guyball | Caroline's embarrassment | Boyce's Practical Jokes | Sue White
Nice template, I'm not too sure about splitting off the seperate 'Long-running jokes' though, keep that in the article but without every single instance of the joke appearing included. I'd vote for an article titled 'List of Green Wing episodes' as suggested by johnSLADE above, maybe with something done like the List of Family Guy episodes. Ghandir 02:21, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Two things. First I think that some of minor characters, such as Harriet, do have enough on them to have a full article. In the article, Karen Ball has almost as much material as Boyce. Only the guest characters should not have a seperate page. Second, the article on Boyce is entitled Boyce (Green Wing). Simply entering, "Boyce," will take you to an article with different options. Also, an entry has been created for East Hampton Trust Hospital. ISD 07:30, 13 April 2006. (UTC)

The amount of information in the article for both amount to a few lines, which doesn't signifiy that they need their own page. Having biogs of minor characters all on an article for minor characters is closer to WP:FICTION. The page is not so long that it needs drastically cutting down - it's only 10% over the 30kb warning. —Whouk (talk) 09:55, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I think it would be a good idea if we added some more pictures in the articles, including the new ones on the characters. ISD 13:50, 13 April 2006. (UTC)

I have created the template at Template:Green Wing but removed the Series 1 and Series 2 links as those article's don't exist yet. I have added the template to the bottom of each character page. johnSLADE (talk) 17:43, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I think that the actors/actress should be included in the template. Also, some of the long running jokes could be included in the characters own articles (The Sue White one for example) ISD 07:45, 14 April 2006. (UTC)

Although we now have an image of Dr. Caroline Todd (Tamsin Greig), I do think a better image should be used, as it is basically a half-profile. Also, an entry has been created for Whiteleaf Public School, the school that Guy attended, and I've extended the running time to 50-55 minutes, as some of the episodes in series 2 are now this length. ISD 08:01, 15 April 2006. (UTC)

[edit] Green Wing actors

I have created a new category Green Wing actors, this is to include any actor or actress who has appeared in the show. This is what other TV shows have done. -- Jbattersby 18:00, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

In that case, would it be a good idea to put the actors names in the template? ISD 07.57, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Most TV show templates don't list the actual actors, only the characters. -- Jbattersby 09:52, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Duplication / Facts

There seems to be too much duplication of information, especially between the main article and the articles for the main characters. I feel that the main article should simply include who that are and what they do, the detail should be in the other articles.

Also, there seem to be some "facts" that I've missed. When did Lady Emmy Lewis-Westbrook leave for Sheffield? And I don't remember Guy doing an impersonation of Paul Daniels, or of Jimmy Savile. Perhaps I should watch them all again :-) -- Jbattersby 17:35, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

If you listen to the DVD commentary on episode 5, who will hear them talking about the Jimmy Savile impersonation. During the Geordie operation, Guy says Paul Daniels's catachphrase, "That's magic," who comes from the Northeast. In the final episodes, Emmy was going up to Sheffield with Mac, so presumably she got her job and moved, but as Sue told Sheffield that Mac was dead, he did not get his and thus cannot move up there. ISD 19:06, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Word magazine quote

There needs to be more context to this quote from The Word. What are they talking about? I was going to highlight this quote (indent and italics), but I couldn't figure out where it actually ended. If this is a true quote, then the issue number of the mag should be quoted using the <ref></ref> tags, and a references section added at the end with the <references /> tag. Any other "facts" should also have a reference tag to show where the information came from. A good example of the use of reference tags is the Top Gear article. -- Jbattersby 11:41, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Long running jokes

I have been trying to create to place the long running jokes with each character (Caroline, Boyce and Sue) and have also been trying to see if it was possible that on the template, the link would take you just to that section where the jokes are, and not at the beginning the article. This may sound a bit sutpid, but I think it would be a good idea. ISD 16:25, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

I've updated the template to link the the current long running joke sections in the main article. If you move these, or just change their headings, the template will need to be updated. -- Jbattersby 16:14, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Awards

In the list of BAFTA awards, Green Wing is listed under the category "Original Television Music sponsored by Sebastian McLean International", but it is unclear to me who won - or indeed why this section is in red. -- Jbattersby 09:50, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Editing Infobox

I thought it was best to get rid of Sarah Alexander from the infobox as she seems to no longer appear in the show, and as her character is not one of the major ones. I also sorted out the order so it matches with the list of characters in the article. ISD 14:23, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sue and Boyce's first names

In Series two, episode two, I noticed some new information about the first names of two of the characters. During Guy's tribunal, Charles refers to Sue as, "Susan," so I decided to change her entry.

A more difficult entry concerns Boyce. During the scene when Martin is dressed as Micheal Jackson, you can see for a few seconds Boyce's name badge, including his first initial. However, I'm having trouble trying to figure out if it is an, "I," or a, "J." If anyone recorded the episode, can they help? ISD 19:54, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

It is alright. I've spotted it now. I am sure it is an, "I," thus making his name, "Dr. I. Boyce." ISD 07:17, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Some seems to have corrected Boyce's first initial to, "J." I have decided to correct all the other entries to "J." ISD 13:57, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Guest characters split

I've just split the guest characters section into those who recur, and the one-off characters. I also added Holly at the same time.. she'll be an interesting addition to the show! Tphi 01:00, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Holly's abortion

I know that according to the entry, Holly aborted Mac's child. I also know that Holly was refered to as, "the baby killer." Is this meant to be a anti-abortion refernce? I know that Sally Philips is a devout Christian, but I am confused. ISD 07:51, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I think the "tear your life apart break your heart baby killer" reference was just to show how poorly Mac thought of her. --Jacj 08:25, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I see your point, but what I was actually thinking was if the writers are trying to say that abortion is wrong? Is it a political or religious message that they trying to get out? Where do they stand on this matter? ISD 10:34, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I can't really speak for the writers, but I doubt that they're intentionally pushing any abortion-related agenda either way. It's possible, but given some of the other equally offensive and/or controversial stuff characters have said, I'm sceptical. It's like trying to infer that the writers genuinely believe that the Swiss are chocolate-making bankers from Mac's comment about Switzerland. --Jacj 17:36, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Writers and Directors articles created

I have created articles for the eight writers and two directors. I was wondering if we should include them in the template, or maybe create new categories for them. Also we could include East Hampton Trust Hospital and Whiteleaf Public School in the template, in a, "Buildings," or, "Other," section. ISD 10:11, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

A category for, "Green Wing writers and crew," has been created. ISD 15:19, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

An, "Other," section has been created and the order of the minor characters on the template has changed as well. ISD 08:10, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jake's surname

Is it Leaf or Lew? - LeonWhite 23:26, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I am pretty sure that it is Leaf. The reason is that it might be the connection with naming the characters after people in the show. I know that Tamsin Greig's real surname is Leaf. ISD 07:25, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

I watched episode 2.5 last night with subtitles on. According to these subtitles, his name is "Jake Lee". However, I'n not going to rush and change everything because these same subtitles referred to Lyndon as "Linda". -- Jbattersby 09:46, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Christmas Special & Series 3

According to the British Sitcom Guide [2], a ninth episode of the second series was filmed to be shown as a Christmas Special later this year, brining the total number of epiodes to 18. Though currently there are no plans for a third series :( Tphi 01:32, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

I read that webpage, and I found a link to an online petition on www.petitionspot.com which I have inlcuded in the external links. There are about 250 signatures so far, but it is listed as one of thier most active petitons on the site. ISD 11:05, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Why has the petition been deleted? ISD 07:40, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

I thought I could include the petition in the "Other News" section. Is that OK with everyone? ISD 07:15, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New subcategory for fans

I have created a new subcategory for Green Wing fans called, "Wikipedians who are fans of Green Wing." I have also designed a template that you can put on your user page to show other people that you are a fan. You can see it in Template:User Green Wing. ISD 12:46, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Good work, thanks! Tphi 12:32, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
I've made some other Green Wing userboxes, which can be seen in the Green Wing fans category. ISD 14:14, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

Is there a better picture, rather than the DVD cover, thanks DannyM 16:36, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

A possible improvement could be just the, "Green Wing," logo. There are one or two different versions, but the best one (in my opinion) would probably be just the white, bold text on the light green background. ISD 09:08, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, but where can we find one? DannyM 16:36, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I've took one from the Green Wing "microsite". I had to use Paint Shop Pro to edit it mind. ISD 08:22, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cutting down to size

I think that this article is now too large and needs to be split up. All sections up to Recurring guest characters are okay. I don't think that the recurring guest characters should have pictures. The Episodes section is okay, mostly. Some descriptions are too long, they should be 2 sentences, 3 tops. Long-running jokes is way too long. Perhaps for each sub section just 2 or 3 examples and drop the pictures. Trivia is again too long and can be chopped down a lot. The remaining sections are fine. So, that will mean creating new articles for "Green Wing Long-running jokes" and "Green Wing Trivia". Is it just me or is the "meaning" section meaningless? -- Jbattersby 20:14, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, its time again to split the article. I think split out long running jokes, reduce pictures, and reduce trivia. I have removed the "meaning" section as it is clearly original research. We could also reduce "Situation and plot" - at the moment it is similar to the episode summaries. johnSLADE (talk) 20:54, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I have managed to move the Long-Running Jokes and Trivia to their own sections, and have tried to reduce the content of the episode guides and the plot section. ISD 07:35, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Added new Category

I have added a new category, "Running Television Shows," as Green Wing does fall into this category. There is also a template, {{In-progress tvshow}} which you may want to post on the article. ISD 11:52, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Meaning meaning

Relating to when I added the meaning section, maybe I added my own opinion when I shouldn't have, and missed the OR FAQ etc. There's a point in the trivia about a green-winged pixie appearing at the end of every show, and this being the supposed meaning. Except there isn't: the show stop's dead, and then there's the production company's credit, which has a flying Christmas fairy creature buzzing into a string of Christmas lights and getting burned like moths don't. The flying thingy isn't a pixie (more like an action man), doesn't have wings (baggy shirt sleeves), and isn't green (multicoloured).

Strangely, the adjective slang meaning of green as immature/naive isn't in Wikipedia or Wikitionary, although the portion-meaning of wing is.

It seem's obvious to me: All the main characters are immature/native (green), and they’re all in the same part of the hospital (wing). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.133.126.135 (talk • contribs).

I think I understand your point, but it is mentioned in the DVD commentray where the name originates, i.e. from a green plastic pixie that was Victoria Pile's computer. Have you listened to the DVD commentary? ISD 07:01, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Geoffrey the Neurosurgeon's name

The sign on his office door looked like Dr. Jeff Jennings. - LeonWhite 00:01, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Changes to Article

Since the trivia section was considered for deletion, I decided to take the, "Making of," section of that article and included in the main article. The trivia section has now been changed to Green Wing Cultural References. Also, I've created a new section on Critcism of the program, as many television shows and films do have such a section. ISD 10:10, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article renaming

We seem to have lots of Green Wing article that aren't named in accordance with Wikipedia:Naming conventions. My suggestions for renames are:

Removal of "Dr." inline with "don't add qualifiers (such as "King", "Saint", "Dr.", "(person)", "(ship)"), except when this is the simplest and most NPOV way to deal with disambiguation" (from Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people)):

Dr. Caroline Todd => Caroline Todd
Dr. Guy Secretan => Guy Secretan
Dr. Alan Statham => Alan Statham
Dr. Martin Dear => Martin Dear
Dr. Angela Hunter => Angela Hunter

Lower case following words inline with "do not capitalize second and subsequent words unless the title is a proper noun" (from Wikipedia:Naming conventions):

Green Wing Cultural References => Green Wing cultural references or Cultural references in Green Wing

Remove hyphen inline with "do not use an article name that suggests a hierarchy of articles" (from Wikipedia:Naming conventions):

Green Wing - long-running jokes => Long-running jokes in Green Wing

Any comments/opposition? johnSLADE (talk) 23:01, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea to me, but what about Dr. "Mac" Macartney? Should that be "Mac" Macartney or be left as it is? ISD 06:44, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for making the renames - i will help correct links to the the new names later. As for Dr. "Mac" Macartney i guess it should ideally be at Mac but since we have to disambiguate then I would suggest either Mac (Green Wing) or Dr. Macartney. johnSLADE (talk) 07:35, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Character Infoboxes

I've created an infobox so that information on the characters is easier to read. For an example see Caroline Todd. It is located in the Green Wing characters category. ISD 07:58, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Main GW Infobox

In my opinion the main infobox has grown too big - and it's the long-running jokes that are causing a problem - especially with the new sections in there. I've been working on the template, and have taken out that section. I also took out the middle names of some of the characters - most are unecessary for the box as they're only mentioned once or twice. Angela was moved back to Main to stop the Minor characters stretching to two lines (and she is a main character for the majority of the two series). Anyway, I propose the following design:


Green Wing
Series 1 | Series 2
Characters:
Main Characters: Dr. Caroline Todd | Dr. Guillaume "Guy" Secretan | Dr. "Mac" Macartney | Dr. Alan Statham | Sue White | Joanna Clore | Dr. Martin Dear | Boyce | Dr. Angela Hunter
Minor Characters: Harriet Schulenburg | Karen Ball | Naughty Rachel | Kim Alabaster
Other:
Long-running jokes | Cultural references

Guyball | East Hampton Hospital Trust | Whiteleaf Public School

I suppose it is worthy of a change. Someone has now even created an article on the Small ping pong man! The only reason that Angela was not a main character was that she does not appear in all the episodes, but I guess she might as well be moved.

Just one minor point to clear up, this is not really a userbox, it is a navigational template. ISD 06:48, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Character relationships

In each of the character discriptions, I thought it would be good to include some information about how they relate to other characters, and how these storylines plot out. So far, only Caroline has been done. Please tell me what you think. ISD 07:11, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I think this would be good. --Arkracer 18:37, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Articles for Deleltion

Several Green Wing articles have been nominated for deletion. Debate is needed to see if this articles should be kept or removed. (I personally want to keep them, but that's my own opinion).

Articles nominated for deletion include:

ISD 08:22, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

The Long-running jokes have been deleted so the section in the main article has been lengthed to include more information. The over articles reached no consensus. ISD 20:42, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Should we put Green Wing forward as a Good article?

I was thinking of putting Green Wing forward as a nomination for a good article, and was wondering what everyone elses view was. Should it be put forward? If it does get accepted, we could get it featured. ISD 15:07, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Seeing as no-one has objected, I've decided to nominate the article as a good article. ISD 16:36, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA notes

I'm putting the article on hold for a maximum of seven days. I had a look at the article and it feels like a big list at the moment, and only has 18 cites. Wiki-newbie 17:26, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Surely the number of references doesn't matter. Maybe the episode list could be got rid of as the episodes are listed under their own articles. ISD 19:20, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA failed

Overall I find the article weak. The Production and Cast sections are quite listy, the latter only needing a full cast pic. None of which have fair use rationales. Wiki-newbie 19:31, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

What do you mean by, "Fair use rationales"? Also, as far as I know, there are no images of the entire cast grouped together. I tried to cut down on the lists. ISD 21:09, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

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