Talk:Great Jedi Purge

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).
This article is part of WikiProject Star Wars, which aims to build an encyclopedic guide to the Star Wars saga on Wikipedia. To participate, you can improve this article or visit the project page for more information.
Portal:Star Wars
 Star Wars Portal

This page was voted on for deletion at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Great Jedi Purge. The consensus was to keep it. dbenbenn | talk 20:56, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Mythic Parallels - Jedi and Templars

I found this whole line of research fascinating and very enlightening. If anyone wants to go into my article and activate all the proper hyperlinks, I'd be very appreciative. If you have any questions or complaints with the material, either respond here or visit my blog and contact me through that http://anaibendai.blogster.com

I am very curious to know if Lucas ever established a timeline that gives the actual DATE of the Jedi Purge - or the date "Order 66" was issued? If not, I'd like to suggest Natunda the 13th in the month of Welona, 19 BBY as that has a nice ring to it and futher cements the uncanny parallels between the Jedi and Templar Knights.

66.231.11.124 04:34, 24 January 2006 (UTC)Anai Bendai

Original research is not allowed on wikipedia. Also some of the evidence, is never film canon and is instead based on the extended star wars universe, meaning that the similarities between the knights templar and the jedi order are created post factum by writers who are more aware of literary history. Your description of the Knights Templar seems to be based mostly on the 1956 fictional history of the priory of sion made popular by the da vinci code (the closest thing it gets to historical is Holy Blood Holy Grail which provides very little evidence that this theory even existed as heresy in the early christian church, despite the fact that various churches had beliefs of this nature) What you're really doing is diagraming two parallel works of fiction. HiS oWn 21:36, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Placed a dispute tag above "Jedi and Templar" subheading in the "Jedi Purge" entry for the above reasons. The parallel is a forced one at best. obiwanjacoby May 8 2006

[edit] Agen, Saesee, Kit, and Mace

As you may have noticed, I have removed these esteemed gentlemen from the list of Jedi killed during the Jedi Purge. The reason for this is a simple one: they were not killed during the Jedi Purge; rather, their deaths were the Purge's immediate precursor. They died before Palpatine crowned himself Emperor, before Order 66 was issued, and before Anakin became Darth Vader. If you feel them worthy of inclusion merely because they were killed by Darth Sidious, should not the Jedi killed during the Yinchorri uprising, the Battle of Naboo, Outbound Flight, the Clone Wars—indeed, all of Palpatine's reign—be included as well? Discuss. Jon Hart 19:46, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Battle"?

The last time I checked, a battle was a hostile meeting of opposing military forces in the course of a war and a purge was the systematic killing of a group of people over time. The Jedi Purge was part of the Galactic Civil War, but it was not a battle.

The purge could be made up of battles, we don't really know, but it wasn't a battle in itself.

Look, I'm not questioning whether this article should exist, I'm just stating it shouldn't be listed as a battle.

I think whoever said the Purge isn't a battle is right. Saying the Purge is a battle would be like saying the Holocaust or Cambodian genocide were battles. But there may have been battles between the Empire and the last Jedi. Also, who keeps reversing "battle before" and "battle after"? It just makes stuff more complicated.- B-101 12:23, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Stop the Edit-War

Will someone please sort out this pointless "dead" "presumed dead" crap? I've completely given up on this article because no one working on it can seem to get past this issue. Isn't wikipedia supposed to be about consensus through discussion? Stop just editing it and talk about it! I'm really tired of reading the comparisons on this page that read "dead" -> "presumed dead".

This edit war is getting ridiculous beyond any imagination! At this point we could argue that any characters who dies in a movie/anime/comic/etc should be only "presumed dead", "apparently killed" or whatever. After all, General Grievous was left in a similar state than Anakin Skywalker. Why should he be dead while Anakin survived? Because of the Force? How can we know that General Grievous was not a "hidden Jedi"? After all he fought Kenobi with four lightsabers. Please, let's discuss here about a term that will satisfy everyone and stop the slaughter in the main article. How about the simple term "shot repeatedly"? It says exactly what we see. Whether she survives or not is not implied. Fafner 1 July 2005 06:47 (UTC)

[edit] Star Wars Wiki

What is it referred too in the Star Wars Universe? Purge? Massacre?

Granted, I'm only basing this on the trailer, but in it Palpatine says something to the effect, "every single Jedi is now an enemy of the Republic." Doesn't that mean that the Jedi Purge took place before the formation of the Empire? Kuralyov 04:08, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

  • It was almost simultaneous really. -- Riffsyphon1024 05:21, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wrong I tells ya!

This is wrong, wrong, wrong! Palpatine begun the purge - order 66 - long before he had announced the creation of the Empire.

Perhaps it should be thusly:


The Emperor, taking advantage of his near dictatorial powers granted by the senate, and possible using his dark side powers to manipulate the clones, ordered the Army of the Republic to execute Order 66-the total extermination of all living Jedi throughout the galaxy. This move would allow him to announce the creation of the galactic empire unhindered, as well as being a victory for the Sith.

Anakin (Darth Vader) brought a thousand Clone Storm troopers to invade the Jedi Temple and execute every Jedi. Every Jedi, including the ‘younglings’, within the temple was slaughtered by the newest sith lord and the elite clone troopers.

The purge was successful as it played of the way the Jedi had been spread through the galaxy fighting the separatists under the command of Palpatine. Although the Jedi where formidable opponents, especially in groups, alone they where in no position to defend themselves from the betrayal of the Clone troopers, and within a short period of time numerous where killed.

If no one objects I will change it on the morrow. --bquanta 12:52, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

I fixed it, although you may wish to modify it. M412k 02:19, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Aayla Secura: Dead?

Didn't Aayla Secura get blasted? Like, while she was on that planet with the plants/flowers. I'm pretty sure she did, although she was covered by flowers while getting gunned down. -anon

I think you are right, ya know. --bquanta 07:55, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

I damn near cried at that scene, but yeah. She was blasted in the back several times before even falling and they continued to gun her down after that. Who the hell could survive that?

---

There may be a debatable point to that. She didn't acquire any blaster wounds from the fire and the fact that she was shot so many times would seem to open the possibility that she was hit with stun fire (as seen in the Republic cruiser in Episode IV when Leia is captured.) This, along with the maybe/maybe not rumor that she is a character in the upcoming TV series set after E3, leaves enough doubt in my mind that it's OK to keep it the way it is. --ObscureAuthor 23:22, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

  • But that would place the clones in violation of order 66 - and considering how they where bread to obey, that doesn't seem likey. Maybe they just wanted to make sure she was dead? And I'm curious as to why you said she didn't accquire any wounds? I didn't see a shot where you could have told one way or the other. But, at any rate, time shall tell. :) --bquanta 06:48, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
Why would she be stunned? That makes no frickin sense. Also, Clonetrooper blaster rifles have fired blue bolts since Genososis. Also, the stun blast in ANH had a more ring like shape to it. My guess is that Lucas either lied, her surviving was changed at the last minute or her surviving was just a rumor.--Kross 16:18, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)

what is the point of her surviving anyway? she's just A Jedi With Boobs. that's all she is. she is Dead folks. DEAD!--darthvader88


[edit] Even Piell

I'm curious: what source states that Piell survives the Purge?

[edit] What about Morgan Katarn?

Let's not forget Morgan Katarn, Jedi and father to the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series hero, Kyle Katarn. He surely survived the Purge. But did he marry someone? Or was Kyle an accident?

-Morgan wasn't a Jedi. Hence, I have removed him from the list of survivors.

[edit] Whatever happened to Quinlan Vos?

In the ROTS movie, it is stated by Obi-Wan that "Master Vos" (and at least I think this means Quinlan) has moved his troops to Boz Pity. In the ROTS comic we see him (although the name is not given, it is either him or his identical brother) get blasted off of a tank. Surprisingly, this seems to happen on Kashyyyk rather than on Boz Pity. But that's a minor detail - we don't actually see him die. And indeed, in Dark Horse's SW Tales #11 "Ghost", we see young Han Solo get saved from a swoop gang by an mysterious old man. And he is none other than our very own Quinlan Vos. So he survivided the Purge, and I actually fixed that detail earlier, but now someone has put him back to the dead list. Right now I don't have the energy to fix that (and Quinlan's biography), but maybe someone else could do that? If you need extra assurance about him not being dead, go to jediquinlan.com and read the biography...

He is dead. Star Wars Tales comics are not a part of Star Wars continuity. Sorry. -- Jon Hart

Look in Star Wars republic 83...-gpigr

Right. Now he's alive again. ;) Jon Hart 19:36, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] More errors

There's no mention of Anakin turning to the dark side, although I suppose it's explained by sub-text. Still, maybe a little bit of smoothing out would read better. More importantly, Yoda and Obi Wan didn't return to de-activate the beacon until *after* order 66. In fact it's mentionned twice. Someone want to sort this or shall I? --Kyle Dantarin 08:44, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

EDIT- latest change is a bad link, and fixing it only links back to this page (order 66 redirects here).

[edit] About "order 66"

Isn't the number a barely hidden reference to 666? I was thinking that "order 666" is too long (and beside that maybe too obvious), and "order 6" too short. If it is the case, shouldn't it be mentionned somewhere? Fafner 14:44, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've noticed that too. If you can find a source that thinks so feel free to mention it in the article. --NormalAsylum (talk) 15:13, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

If I had had a source I would already have edited the article ;-) It's just an idea that popped up in my mind while I was watching the movie... Fafner 06:18, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

There is definitely a parallel...although when I first saw the movie I chalked it up to George's lack of an imagination. ddcrandall

[edit] Surviving Padawans

What do you think, should padawans who survived the Purge be added to the survivors list, even though they never officially reached the rank of Jedi Knight? Nitpicking, I know, but it'd be nice to hear what you lot think... I know at least one Jedi-in-training who survived, namely Kam Solusar.

I'm sure that other Jedis are not "presumed dead" because no Jedi was a suvivor of Order 66, only Obi-Wan and Yoda are the only ones mentioned to survive the Purge. DarthPlaegis, 8:40, August 7, 2005
In my opinion, all younglings, Padawans, Knights, and Masters who survived the purge should be included. Unfortunately, DarthPlaegis, that number is quite substantial. Jon Hart 18:01, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

I am curous about where we can find the narrative of the Purge in the Jedi temple. I read about Anakin killing people but can find no source for it, i.e. Cin Drallig, Jocasta Nu in the book or the movie. Thank you.

Read the book again, then play the video game. Jon Hart 00:37, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fall of the Jedi Edits and Page Problems

I rewrote significant portions of the Fall of the Jedi section because it contained, among other things: bad writing, grammatical mistakes, factual errors, speculation, and overlaps with other articles. There seem to be other problems with this article, including the misplacment of the table of victims, which I can't seem to fix. As such, I am disputing this article until the changes can be made and the article fixed. There are problems throughout. ddcrandall

Why did you wipe out the section on the clone trooper tactics, removed the details on the interaction between Vader and Palpatine, and also deleted the paragraph on Yoda and Kenobi? --maru (talk) contribs 05:39, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
My first intention was to edit it. The section was tantamount to prose as it contained basically storytelling of what happened leading up to the purge. Secondarily, I thought much of this information was unnecessary, as it all came before the purge. Also, the section was badly written, and carried numerous grammatical mistakes. Of a minor concern, many of the words had been changed to their British counterparts: lightsaber to lightsabre, etc. I felt that the most efficient option would be to delete most of the section and start from scratch, if other people felt the story was necessary. The information on Kenobi and Yoda was speculation about their feelings regarding the best way to defeat the Empire, and was unsubstantiated. The clone trooper tactics were similar in that regard, and carried a few factual errors. ddcrandall
Well, the events antecedent to the Purge need to be described, as they are vital to an understanding of the Purge proper; we can't foist off on the reader a link to ROTS and a directive to read the plot summary carefully, after all. And I think the clone paragraph should be restored, but maybe as part of a larger section. There doesn't seem to be much discussion of how the Purge was implemented, which is a decent topics in its own right. --maru (talk) contribs 06:58, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
My main problem wasn't with the content, just the way it was written. The stuff with Yoda and Kenobi has got to go. Nowhere in the canon or EU does it say that stuff (I could be wrong, but there weren't sources, either). I'll try and rewrite the other sections, removing the bad writing, grammar mistakes, etc. After that is done, I think the disputed tag can come down. Doug 09:27, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
I rewrote the sections that I deleted with the exception of the last paragraph involving Yoda and Obi-Wan. Does anyone know why the table of known victims appears at the end of the article? Doug 09:53, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
I suspect because it is too much detail. --maru (talk) contribs 19:43, 23 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Ferus Olin

Would Ferlus Olin be considered a survivor, considering he was no longer a member of the Jedi Order at the time? I was going to add a small note in the survivors section on this, but I wasn't sure if I should. I also noticed he was added into the missing in action section. He location has now been revealed in the Last of the Jedi series.

[edit] Star Wars and the Knights Templar

A good idea, but desperatly needs editing and sourcing. One glaring mistake is in saying the Templars were all arrested AND executed on the same day. Not true. Fergananim 15:50, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

It looks to me to be original research, which is a no-no. It reads like a high school essay, and seems to me to be a mishmash of urban legends (the Friday the 13th thing), Dan Brown's conspiracy theories and grasping at straws (comparing the Clone Wars to the Crusades). So I have added that flag to the section as well. If it doesn't get cited/referenced, then it should be deleted. --DarthBinky 17:22, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Removed the section, per this discussion and the earlier one above ("Mythic Parallels"- which I hadn't previously seen). --DarthBinky 18:48, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../g/r/e/Talk%7EGreat_Jedi_Purge_faee.html"