Talk:Graubünden
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I've removed the pronounciation of the canton in other languages because (i) I don't think it really belongs here; (ii) I think it distracts from the rest. Kokiri 23:12, 7 Jan 2004 (UTC)
After a quick glance just two points:
- Is Bündnerfleisch all that can be said about the culture in the Grisons? Reminds me of the old joke "Do you know the difference between a yoghurt and X?" — "Yoghurt has a culture." :-) Either there is more to say, or this ridiculous section should go.
- The history sectioon doesn't even mention the Bündner Wirren during the Thirty Years War, which left profound traces throughout the region. Jürg Jenatsch also would deserve mention.
Lupo 13:31, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Article name
It was suggested that this article should be renamed Graubünden. The vote is shown below:
Why on earth is this article given the French name for the canton? It's the one national language that isn't spoken there.
- I agree. It should be listed as Graubünden, although Grisons should be listed in the opening paragraph. Olessi 3 July 2005 15:53 (UTC)
- Historically, it's the name by which the place has been referred to in English. Personally I prefer Graubünden, but if we want to use a unique name, why not Grischun since Romansch is only spoken there? -- Arwel 5 July 2005 12:19 (UTC)
- We don't necessarily want to use a unique name, we want to use the right name. Grisons is the traditional English name, but it is gradually phasing out. Links found on a Yahoo search for Grisons - 243,000. Links found on a Yahoo search for Graubünden - 263,000. Google on Grisons- 240,000. Google on Graubünden- 1,050,000. If both names are common, I say go with the official name. Olessi 5 July 2005 22:57 (UTC)
- What we want is the most commonly used name in English. Did those searches only take pages in English into consideration, or pages in French and German as well? --Angr/tɔk tə mi 6 July 2005 12:51 (UTC)
- I have redefined each search to look for only pages in English using the Advance Search for each site. Yahoo: Grisons- 80,900; Graubünden- 157,000. Google: Grisons- 53,900; Graubünden- 142,000. Now, I don't think we should base our decision on search engine results, but IMO it is an example of the trend toward Graubünden instead of Grisons. Olessi 6 July 2005 21:25 (UTC)
- What we want is the most commonly used name in English. Did those searches only take pages in English into consideration, or pages in French and German as well? --Angr/tɔk tə mi 6 July 2005 12:51 (UTC)
- We don't necessarily want to use a unique name, we want to use the right name. Grisons is the traditional English name, but it is gradually phasing out. Links found on a Yahoo search for Grisons - 243,000. Links found on a Yahoo search for Graubünden - 263,000. Google on Grisons- 240,000. Google on Graubünden- 1,050,000. If both names are common, I say go with the official name. Olessi 5 July 2005 22:57 (UTC)
- Personally I prefer "Grisons" (as in The Grisons, not Les Grisons). -- User:Docu
- Support moving to Graubünden. That's the name used in Merriam-Webster's Geographical Dictionary, which is good enough for me. Does anyone know what it's called in Britannica? --Angr/tɔk tə mi 5 July 2005 21:30 (UTC)
- Britannica- Graubünden
- Columbia- Grisons Olessi 5 July 2005 22:57 (UTC)
- Support -- j. 'mach' wust ˈtʰɔ̝ːk͡x 8 July 2005 12:01 (UTC)
- Comment -- an additional advantage of "Grisons" is that it is an English word rather than a German word used in English text. -- User:Docu
- Actually, I would say that "Grisons" is a French word used in English text. Olessi 00:12, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
- You already did. -- User:Docu
This article has been renamed after the result of a move request. violet/riga (t) 21:18, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
Some late comments: why did you think that Grisons come from French? If you write in the same manner, it doesn't means that it has the same origin. Check the names in Switzerland and you will find huge quantity of counter-examples. I.e. "Mesolcina" is in French "Misox", but also in German "Misox" but it seems a French name. But why Grisons would use a French name for a own part of territory? I think the English name is Grisons, used in a lot official translation of documentation in administration. See constitution,admin, statistic, postal administration documents,..., and we should check swiss documentation when foreign encyclopediae are not consistent each other. (Note: this is not a proposal to re-rename the page) Cate 12:16, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- without being a linguist I think it's reasonably clear that "Grisons" came to English via the French ("gris" is unlikely to be english). Regardless: if we look around on admin.ch in the English section, mostly "Graubünden" is used. your first link is dead, but there are things like http://www.ch.ch/verzeichnis/index.html?lang=en&viewpage=kanton&canton=129#start or http://www.admin.ch/dokumentation/00104/index.html?lang=en&download=M3wBUQCu_8ulmKDu36WenojQ1NTTjaXZnqWfVp3Uhmfhnapmmc7Zi6rZnqCkkIN0gH,EbKbXrZ2lhtTN34al3p6YrY7P1oah162apo3X1cjYh2,hoJVn6w-- (page 17) which use "Graübunden". I think simply usage has changed and the translation of the constitution is a bit conservative. Certainly I've never heard or seen "Grisons" used in English myself, and I live in Zürich.
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- I think the English (and French) names are derived from Latin. See la:Grisonia. Cate 10:11, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
