Talk:Grande Loja Regular de Portugal

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[edit] Regularity, or Which GLRP is Which?

This GLRP is not in the list of recognized UGLE Foreign Lodges in Europe. The GLLP, which bills itself as the GLLP/GLRP and has its webpage at [1], is. Funnily enough, the coat of arms look almost the same.

There are some interesting documents floating around though, such as this one here that seem to indicate some sort of political problem.

Also, the GL of British Columbia and Yukon recognizes what it calls the Grande Loja Legal de Portugal (GLRP), which this group does not appear to be.

However, Pietre-Stones has this article which says:

"José Manuel Anes, in his most recent book about Regular Portuguese Freemasonry, says that a group of masons dissatisfied with irregular conditions that the Grande Orient persisted in following, took initiatives to remedy the situation and tried to restore the Obedience in the roots of regularity, but the attempt failed. Schisms occurred during the 1980s, which led to the creation of the Grand Lodge of Portugal in 1985 and later the creation of the Portuguese District of the Grand National Lodge of France (DP-GLNF)[61]. In 1991 this District became the Regular Grand Lodge of Portugal (GLRP), under the leadership of Fernando Teixeira as its first Grand Master[62]. This new Obedience has in its ranks important freemasons like Antero da Palma Carlos the first Prime Minister after the Revolution, Fernando Teixeira the first Grand Master, José Manuel Moreira, José Carlos Nogueira the present Sovereign Grand Commander of the 33º of the SAAR, Pisani Burnay, Alvaro de Athayde, Luís Nandin de Carvalho the second Grand Master, José Manuel Anes the present Grand Master, Nuno Nazareth Fernandes and José Moreno the Superior Priest of the Royal Arch to name a few."

"The Regular Grand Lodge of Portugal achieved great expansion and growth during the first ten years of its operation. It is recognised by Universal Freemasonry as a regular jurisdiction and has representatives near the Grand Lodges of Canada, Brazil, Switzerland, Mexico, the different Grand Lodges of the states of United States of America and the United Grand Lodge of England (1992). This warm welcome among the main branches of Regular freemasonry made it possible for the Second World Masonic Conference to be held in Estoril in September 1996, with representatives from 20 countries and an enormous coverage by the press."

"The Regular Grand Lodge of Portugal has established an increasing influence within Portuguese society among the liberal professions, intellectuals, public servants, entrepreneurs and academics, with about 900 members during the 1990s. In civil society the new Obedience is considered to closely reflect the Catholic, liberal and conservative environment. Prof. Luis Nandin de Carvalho replaced the founder, Dr. Fernando Teixeira, after his decease in 1997."

"A minority of freemasons contested the election of the new Grand Master, led by José Braga Gonçalves. The WorshipfulMaster of Lodge General Gomes Freire de Andrade promoted a schism in the Grand Lodge between 1997 and 1998, alleging that the Grand Master had violated his Masonic vows[63]. The purpose of the schism was to enable insiders to take over the power of regular Portuguese freemasonry and put it at the service of hidden or illegal purposes. The new dissidents, some 400 masons, adopted the original name of the Grand Lodge, took Casa do Sino the headquarters of the Grand Lodge by force and confiscated all the archives. This “coup d’État” forced the remaining group of masons who continued to support Luis Nandin de Carvalho, to change its common name to Grande Loja Legal de Portugal – Grande Loja Regular de Portugal, known in universal freemasonry as the Grand Lodge of Portugal - Legal[64]. According José Manuel Anes, all of the ceremonial bodies of Regular freemasonry, that is the High Grades, rejected the call of the dissidents and joined the GLLP in its new phase of activity."

"On 11th December 2000 José Manuel Anes succeeded Luís Nandin de Carvalho as Grand Master and was installed on 24th March 2001. José Manuel Anes was the Grand Prior of the Grande Prioriado Independente da Lusitânea, a system of High Degrees of the rectified Scottish rite of Christian and Gnostic observance."

"If the Website of the Grand Legal Lodge of Portugal (www.gllp.com) is visited, it will be seen that 50 lodges are operating with an estimated membership [José Manuel Anes] of 900 freemasons, compared with 1100 members under the Grande Oriente Lusitano."

"According to the details included in Maçonaria Regular[65], in general terms there are seven Obediences operating in Portugal. They are: GLRP (Legal) with 900 members; GLRP (Casa do Sino) 100 members; Grande Loja Nacional Portuguesa (an offshoot from GLRP) 50 members; Casa Real dos Pedreiros Livres da Lusitânea (also an offshoot from GLRP) 50 members; Grande Oriente Lusitano 1100 members; Grande Loja Feminina de Portugal (Feminine freemasonry) 300 members and Direito Humano (mixed freemasonry) 200 members."

Thus, I see at least three possibilities of which GLRP this is, and it does not appear that this is the GLLP/GLRP, but rather Casa do Sino, which means that the claim of regularity is misleading. I'm going to remove it pending more information. MSJapan 13:24, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More edits

Some of the text, mostly that which seeks to justify the GLRP as regular and UGLE being in error by its revocation of regularity violates WP:NOT a soapbox. As such, I have removed the text. Material on Wikipedia needs to be presented impartially, because Wikipedia is not a forum to debate or resolve claims.

I also edited some things to improve the formatting and readability of the article. MSJapan 02:54, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I propose that this article, with its discussion page, is moved to "The Regular Grand Lodge of Portugal"; since this is English Wiki, and the current title is in Portuguese.Generic Character 14:25, 19 October 2006 (UTC) Well, I now concur with MSJapan and withdraw my proposal. Generic Character 02:12, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Which "GLRP" does the Portugal Court decisions find in favour of? Is it the one currently recognized by UGLE, or the other one? Using just "GLRP" does not provide clear information. Generic Character 12:45, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Fisrt of all we all notice the reversions made to this article and a simple study can see how its possible to turn an article in other complete different. As it remains so far in the history of this article we "Grande Loja Regular de Portugal" or GLRP. are not the GLLP. The GLLP are the abreviation of Legal. Is it so difficult to understand, i think it is not. But in one thing you are correct, the "Legal" was the one who abandoned our Grand Loge and after us claiming regularity became the UGLE recognised new member (...!). But this is not the important point . The unhappy happenings is not our concern now. As individual Grand Loge we should be able to have a respected article at the English wikipedia and im afraid its not possible because of all partial reversions. This makes me wander about the wiki project and how its easy to make things to seem another. For all interested in the really documents and history feel free to contact: http://www.glrp.com.pt By the way the court decisions concern our Grande Loja Regular de Portugal or GLRP. Carlos Botelho 10:02, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, as a UGLE Freemason, I am forbidden to contact any other Grand Lodge directly. I concur with MSJapan, in that this article depends heavily on internal documents of rival Grand Lodges. The point about the Court decisions may be feely edited in by Carlos Botelho, if he so wishes - in order to clarify who the decisions refer to. It would seem that that Grand Lodge is not the one that UGLE recognises? Generic Character 02:12, 21 October 2006 (UTC)