Talk:Grand Canyon National Park

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[edit] Split or Merge?

Shouldn't Grand Canyon and Grand Canyon National Park be merged into one article? I previously made an article on Death Valley National Park and talked a great deal about just Death Valley -- the two are inseparately linked (Death Valley is a redirect to the Death Valley National Park). The same is true about the Grand Canyon and the National Park it is within. You cannot really talk about the park without going into detail about its most prominent feature. --maveric149


I wouldn't make them redirects, because they're not the same thing, and the Grand Canyon isn't entirely within the National Park. I'm generally an advocate of breaking up articles rather than merging them. --The Cunctator


Just as important though would be a careful redirect of Grand Canyon to Grand Canyon of the Colorado River -- Yep, it is by far the most commonly referred to "Grand Canyon" but the term is acually used quite a lot on many rivers -- for example the Grand Canyon of the Tuolumne River is in Yosemite National Park while I have seen the Grand Canyon of the Kings River for Kings Canyon in Sequoia-Kings Canyon National Park -- ClaudeMuncey, Monday, April 1, 2002
I disagree. If Grand Canyon is to remain its own article, then it must be about the Grand Canyon that is within the Grand Canyon National Park. This "grand canyon" is by far the one known worldwide as simply, the Grand Canyon. A link at the bottom of the page to Grand Canyons or better yet, Grand Canyons of the world would suffice for the other much less well know "grand canyons". This is similar to what has been planned for the Paris article (as soon as other Paris, X articles are written). --maveric149
No problem maveric -- set it up one way or the other -- I would suggest then the main Grand Canyon link with the Grand Canyon of the Colorado River as a redirect to catch the odd stray link or search. ClaudeMuncey, Monday, April 1, 2002

The more general problem remains about articulation between articles on historic sites or natural features and articles on the parks or reserves that enclose them, completely or partially. (In some cases, there is no difference -- Vietnam Veterans Memorial is an example) The Grand Canyon is a good case (as you and TC have pointed out). In another case, all the material in WP on Yellowstone, is now in Yellowstone National Park. Another case is Yosemite National Park, an article I am working up (I live just down the road in Merced). Yosemite Valley is entirely in the park, is entirely identified with the park (or rather vice versa), and could easily deserve a substantial article of its own (with excellent PD images supplied by me, of course <g>). There are other significant and famous natural features that are both completely within, and partially within the park. Death Valley National Park is another. (Nice start maveric -- I would like more articles from direct experience -- any pics?)

What would you think about a brief guideline, perhaps in Talk:National Parks (United States) suggesting how to keep this generally disambiguated, that we and others could wiki into shape? I was already thinking of putting a general invitation on that page, with suggestions for material, with a note on the announcements page to get some more people to jump in. Good idea/bad idea? ClaudeMuncey, Monday, April 1, 2002

[edit] Grand Canyon and Glen Canyon

The Grand Canyon National park article says in its second paragraph that the creation of GCNP was motivated by the creation of Glen Canyon Dam. How can this be, given that the park was created in 1919 and Glen Canyon Dam in the 1950's? I hesitate to edit the article directly because I am not intimately familiar with the history of either, but it seems misleading to me.--Wallyneb 10:30, Nov 10, 2004 (UTC)

It might have been more accurate to say that expansion of the park was motivated by the creation of Glen Canyon Dam. That still does not get it exactly right, as preliminary surveys in the 60's outside then-park-boundaries near Havasu Creek and within Marble Canyon (a separate National Monument until 1975) for future dam projects led to the compromise between the Sierra Club and the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation to allow construction of the dam in Glen Canyon. The expansion of the park to its present-day boundaries now encompases the areas where dams were once proposed.
This appears to be moot as the language you mentioned has been deleted since your original comment. A larger article about the park should include a section on its expansion in the 1970's, and could include a rehash of the above text. I am working on articles about the trails within the park, and can help expand this article as my book research continues. Notary137 18:47, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Largest canyon in the world?

The article currently claims "The Grand Canyon itself—really an extensive system of tributary canyons— is neither the largest or deepest canyon in the world,"

So which canyon is the largest? Which canyon is the deepest ? Is the Grand Canyon the largest and deepest canyon in North America ?

  • A park ranger told me once that Grand Canyon is not the deepest (at 5200 feet), nor the widest (at 12 miles), nor the longest (at 277 miles) canyon in the world; but it is the largest. When I asked him about the difference, he mentioned volume of air below the plane between the rims. I'm sure I read it somewhere too, so if I come across it again I will cite it in the article. (Hopefully, the actual cubic mileage can be included.) Notary137 19:16, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Also, Copper Cañon in the state of Chihuahua, Mexico is the deepest (highest average depth) in North America, but I think Grand Canyon is the deepest in the U.S by the same criteria. I'm not going to add that to the article since I do not know for sure, I would have to see a citation before doing so. The deepest portion of Grand Canyon is measured between Yaki Point and Bright Angel Point down to the Colorado River near Phantom Ranch. Notary137 19:16, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Seperate article for trail listings

I propose creating a section for listing the hiking trails within the boundaries of the park. A second oprion is to create an article named List of trails in Grand Canyon National Park, with a link somewhere from this article. The trails to be listed are:

(trails listed removed by author)

There are a large number of redlinks there today, but I'm working on it. I've already created four of the articles listed since mid-August (Hermit Trail, Tonto Trail, North Kaibab Trail and Cape Final Trail) and hope to have all but a couple created by October 7th.

A separate article will keep the main one small, and allow for description of the trail system and its interconnections in the List of... article. Any thoughts? Notary137 19:34, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

After a bit of thought, I advocate the creation of a new article versus a section only. See strikeout text above. Notary137 19:53, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
I have gone ahead and created the 'List of...' article stated above, and added a link in the 'see also' section of this article. Trails without articles are simply not linked to eliminate redlinks. Notary137 06:21, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
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