Talk:Gonzales v. Raich

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gonzales v. Raich has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

	This article is part of WikiProject U.S. Supreme Court cases, a collaborative effort to improve articles related to Supreme Court cases and the Supreme Court. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the assessment scale.

Contents 1 What next? 2 Correct citation 3 Gun Laws 4 What a stupid article 5 NPOV tag 6 Is this better? 7 Raich's later heatlh?

[edit] What next?

What I'd like to know is NOW WHAT? What's the future for this? What's the process that it needs to go through in Congress, and when will it all happen? Does anyone have these answers?? 16:18, 10 Jun 2005 64.223.40.90

[edit] Correct citation

US Reports has the citation of this case as Raich v. Gonzales, which is how it was docketed by SCOTUS. For what reason is it listed here in reverse, and how would this be corrected (on the assumption that it is, in fact, wrong, although I would tend to assume that the Supreme Court's docket is authoritative).Simon Dodd 20:38, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think that may be an error, but I don't know what reason it may have been reported as such. Traditionally, cases are titled with the appellant first, and in this case it was the government (then represented by John Ashcroft) which appealed the ruling of the ninth circuit. The replacement of Ashcroft with Alberto Gonzales makes sense due to the change of attorney-general during the pendency of the case, but reversing the litigants does not. A possible interpretation, however: the appeal was interlocutory in nature and was remanded to the lower courts for further litigation. Hence, the plaintiff in the case is again Raich et. al. Whig 22:06, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The case was originally captioned Raich v. Ashcroft because Raich and Monson were the original appellants. They also filed the appeal to the 9th Circuit Court, who reversed the ruling of the lower district court. When the case reached the United States Supreme Court, Attorney General John Ashcroft and DEA Administrator Asa Hutchinson filed the Petition for Certiorari, at which point the federal government became the appellant. The case caption was changed when Alberto Gonzales became the new Attorney General.

[edit] Gun Laws

This doesn't mention the effect on firearms

[edit] What a stupid article

First, it quotes only from the dissent and not the majority opinion.

Second, it is entirely irrelevant (and ludicrous) that "activists" have compared the decision to the Dred Scott decision. (unsigned anon comment)

We should definitely cite it. Hilariously, the majority opinion was that growing your own pot affects the national market, so is covered by the Commerce Clause, because the government can't fully regulate the market in pot if you are growing your own (and therefore not taking part in the market). This would mean that any activity that can in any way be said to have an effect on a market that has an interstate dimension (in other words, just about anything) could be covered by the Commerce Clause (which was what Thomas argued in his dissenting opinion).

You have to smile at a judge who's willing to rule that the government can regulate your homegrown dope because you're refusing to buy it on the open market, which is illegal. Luther Blissett 02:34, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

I agree on the Dred Scott thing, that seems POV to me. Lets give it a couple days, and then remove it if there are no objections. -GregAsche 20:54, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

I certainly object- OK, I am just seeing this two months later, but the comment should be made. First, the Dred Scott reference is citing the view of activists, so it is fair comment, not bad POV. Second, even as detached analysis, it is reasonable comment on two counts: as with Dred Scott,

• the fundemental civil rights of a large class of inidividuals is at issue
• the minority opinion aligns with rapidly growing popular sentiment, suggesting reversal is possible

In case this first point is unclear, we are speaking of cannabis users, of many tens of millions of Americans, over three-quarters of a million of whom suffer arrest annually, more than 77,000 of whom are now incarcerated, tens of thousands of whom (including the defendants) suffer interference- for some fatal- in their health care, and all of whom are vulnerable- sometimes simply by being identified as cannabis users- to an array of de jure harms, which includes loss of employment, loss of child custody, loss of professional license, loss of public housing, loss of driving license, incarceration, forfiture of assets, circumvention of criminal procedure, as well as any number of de facto harms, such as workplace discrimination, police harassment, religious interference and consumer fraud. Cannabis prohibition has significant civil rights ramifications, the comparison to Dred Scott is hardly overblown.

That said, someone should find a representative quote from each of Scalia's and Kennedy's briefs and display them similarly to those of O'Connor and Thomas.

-SM 20:17, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Specifically what activists have compared it to Dred Scott? Please give a quote and cite a source. You've convinced me about it's POVicity, but if it is to be included in the article, it needs a source. -Greg Asche (talk) 22:11, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

I trust I convinced you of its relevance. Will look for citation. -SM

Well, thought I had it with this one, but it is regarding United States v. Oakland Cannabis Buyers' Cooperative, with the same attorney (Raich, husband of the appellate, Angel Raich). The number of posted comments re Gonzales v. Raich and Dred Scott is high (to which, I suppose, you may add mine), as is that of those by outraged states' rights advocates, but I am looking for a proper citation from a cannabis activist. Had the discomfiting experience of any good Wikipedian when Googling for a supporting citation, and encountering the very article I was trying to support. Will find soon. -SM 00:53, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV tag

This article is exceptionally biased. Not only does the government's case section fail to outline the government's case (instead outlining moral-type arguments for the defendant), the result section doesn't explain any of the result, instead describing the legally irrelevant position of the dissenters. Psychobabble 20:59, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I tried to fix it up a little. It did need quite a bit of balancing. But I think it's ok now. I've removed the tag, but it still could use some more info, and maybe a few more tweaks.--Cdogsimmons 23:25, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, i'm re-inserting it. You've done a decent job of adding more of the other side, but my primary objection stands. There is no substantive explanation of the legal reasoning of the majority but two reasonably long quotes by a dissenting judge. There is three extensive paragraphs of Raich's case and one cursory paragraph on the government's. There is a fiery rhetorical comparison by an opposing group of the case to Dread Scott (!!!) and a bland statement by a supporting group. More than that, the tone of the article reads like this case was a break in the Renqhist court's pro-federalism approach, when I've seen analysis that it would have been a dramatic extension of it (eg. [1], which is just one I can remember after reading a couple of similar pieces about a year ago). Cases like lopez (by what I've read, but I'm not a US law student) can be reconciled with prior commerce clause doctrine, but if Raich had gone the other way it would have been much harder. In the end, this is a 6-3 decision by a conservative Supreme court but this article makes it sound like it's a legal anomoly and barely explains the legal rationale. I would add to it if I could, but I'm only a distant observer on these issues. Psychobabble 03:29, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is this better?

I tried adding information for the majority opinion. The paragraph on Wickard wasn't deleted but moved down and combined with another paragraph in the Result sub-section.Jimmuldrow 19:10, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

That's much better, thanks a lot for that. I've removed the tag. You can now come to this page and find out why the case was decided like it was, which was my main problem with it previously. I trimmed the discussion on lopez and morrison, based on the statement "Stevens' opinion for the Court for the Raich decision said that Lopez and Morrison don't apply". I didn't feel they warranted extended discussion if they were held to be irrelevant. If I'm wrong and they were relevant, could you please expand on why (perhaps something to do with Scalia's concurrence? It wasn't at all clear to me). Also, I don't know how US decisions are normally talked about, but if I understand this correctly, there was a majority judgement written by Stevens which 4 other judges signed on, a separate concurrence by scalia and dissents by o'connor, Rehnquist and Thomas. Is that correct? Because it isn't explicitely stated there, if so, and I think it should be, probably in the opening paragraph of result. Thanks again. Psychobabble 09:02, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I'll let you make the judgment call on relevance, since I can be verbose. I mentioned Lopez and Morrison because Raich and Monson relied on them. Glad I could help.Jimmuldrow 13:18, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, the blue bar to the right lists the Case Opinions, which are basically what you said except I thought Rehnquist joined O'Connor's dissent instead of writing his own. You could add that up top if you wish.Jimmuldrow 13:28, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I didn't notice the blue bar and you're right, Rehnquist joined O'Connor. I might put something in the result, but it's reasonably clear I guess. Psychobabble 01:37, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Raich's later heatlh?

What happened to Raich afterwards, when she could no longer use medical marijuana, since he doctor stated her life was at state? Has her health been shown to take a downturn? Of course, perhaps she continued to self-medicate, unofficially. 75.36.95.27 11:33, 20 October 2006 (UTC)