Talk:Goldfish

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Contents

[edit] Relevance

"On the television show MythBusters, Jamie Hyneman and Adam Savage explored the idea by each trying to train goldfish to navigate a maze over a 45-day period. The result was that the fish could definitely be trained to navigate the maze."

How is this paragraph relevant to the discussion of goldfish? I propose it be removed.
Has anyone seen this video of trained goldfish? I don't know if it belongs in the article, but it's quite amazing.--Daveswagon 21:03, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] better history source

I'll add some info from this site soon too. -EKN http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/disease.html

Actually, this is a better source for dating.

http://www.bristol-aquarists.org.uk/goldfish/info/info.htm jynx 17:30, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Have you already added any additional info to the main page?- EKN

[edit] Carnival prizes

Goldfish are often given away at fairs and carnivals in the US as well.. generally they are won by tossing a ping pong ball into a small spherical bown containing the fish. Suppafly 22:46, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Feel free to add this information to the article. Edward 23:30, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Fishbowl size

Are you sure the fishbowls mentioned are too small? 10 gallons is a sphere of 1 foot 4.5 inches (38 liters, 41cm) diameter --Random|832 21:19, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Goldfish bowls are really, really, really bad - If filled to the top, the surface area of the water is so low compaired to the volume of water that large fish (like goldfish) have trouble getting enough oxygen out of the water and will 'slurp' oxyiginated water from the top. Strangly, a goldfish bowl that is half filled is almost ok - but it's still bad. If you want your fish to last years - you really do need 10 gallons or so.

15 or more gallons per fish is optimal.

[edit] Old sanctuary link

The goldfish sanctuary, linked at the bottom, hasn't existed in five years, and only the front page of the site is still up. Objections to removing the link? Anyone able to find a link to something similar, yet actually in existance? --66.69.150.85 13:54, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The organisation may be defunct, but their site does have some decent information for the hobbyist. I'm not so sure the link is useless, but I wouldn't object to its removal. -- Hadal 06:26, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Varieties

Question... I was thinking of putting up pages about the various goldfish varieties (ryukin, comet, oranda, etc) and I was wondering if it'd be appropriate to list them from this page. --67.149.163.154 06:18, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Certainly. Perhaps a summary section with links to the varieties' more detailed articles? NOAA has good PD colour plates of ryukins and orandas, which could be put to good use. -- Hadal 06:26, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pregnant twats

I couldn't find this on the snopes site: "here is an urban legend that a pregnant goldfish is called a "twit" or "twat", but this was debunked by The Straight Dope." Perhaps a direct link would be useful?

[edit] Lifespan

The entry says that the fish quickly reach adult size and can survive for years. How old is considered adult, and what is their average lifespan?

I don't have any real experience of raising fish, but I was looking for lifespan information recently, and found a reasonable article online - http://www.adelaideaquariums.com.au/Faqs/freshwater/fish/goldfish.asp.

This suggests 5-10 years for home-based pets, 15-20 for outdoor fish, and a 'record' of 43 years. If someone cares to verify this, we should add it to the page.

[edit] Common pet names

If anybody really cares...the most common name for a pet goldfish is (allegedly) Jaws, not Wanda (nor, as you might hope, Asshole). Fishhole 09:27, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ponds

I was wondering about adding information about keeping goldfish in ponds since their does not seem to be any here.--βjweþþ (talk) 16:37, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Grammar cleanup

Does anyone know why this page is put on cleanup? I can not see any problems.--βjweþþ (talk) 17:43, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Because it's full of spelling, grammar and language mistakes. Just check the History section for example ... Ebogdan 18:53, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Just get someone to correct them. If people here cleanup articles just because it has grammatical or spelling mistakes, then that's not fair to people whose mother toungue isn't English. jynx 16:54, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Domesticated vs wild

I don't understand the phrase "Domesticated goldfish left to their own devices will over time revert to their wild form." What the **** does it mean ?! If it means what I think it does, well, it's not true. After several matings, goldfish with "wild" colour will appear (similar to guppys), but a number of the fancy coloured ones will remain no matter what (genetics...). Ebogdan 20:22, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

I think it means all the gold ones will get eaten beacause they stick out but the 'wild' coloured ones will survive. It still is phrased wrongly anyway.

Can anyone verify the story from the History section ? Ebogdan 20:37, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

"Domesticated goldfish left to their own devices will over time revert to their wild form." I don't think I typed this sentence. I don't agree with what it says anyway. There aren't any goldfish that are not domesticated! There are no wild goldfish, don't be silly! jynx 17:22, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

There are tons of wild goldfish. Wild populations are found all over the United States, for instance. An example of a fish survey finding wild goldfish in a lake is here:

They indeed revert to the bronze form as the colorful varieties are maladapted for survival in the wild. The "gold" offspring are quickly devoured by fish-eating birds, like the Kingfisher, leaving only plain bronze offspring to breed the next generation.Roughfisher

Those populations should properly be called feral rather than wild. -- Donald Albury 12:37, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 40 gallons? Ridiculous

Goldfish need TEN -- still a large amount of water/tank -- nor FORTY gallons each. And this is only for decent-sized mature fish. Filtration and other techniques can make perfectly livable conditions in smaller areas.

In China, it's not uncommon for four-five large goldfish to live in a small bowl, and presumably the Chinese know what they're on about with goldfish. Zuzim 21:50, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Really saying, the general formula for goldfish activity volume is its length times its length times its length, in other words, length^3. As soon as you know the water in the bowl is not less than that is ok. Besides, you should not calculate the volume a goldfish needs the way you calculate other fish. Most other fish are caught in the wild, but goldfish (excluding Grass type) are evolved to be domesticated. Goldfish mostly are not very active. And for fancy species such as Bubble Eye, you even MUST NOT put them in a large container, or it will find very difficult to find food!!!!!! So really saying, you should treat different fish differently. jynx 17:17, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

In his very esteemed book 'Fancy Goldfish: A Complete Guide to Care and Collecting' Dr. Erik Johnson agrees with the 10 gallons per mature fish rule but also adds that the fish keeper should always purchase the largest aquarium that they can afford. Having kept very large fancy varieties of goldfish for over ten years I can attest to the accuracy of this. Larger tanks are much easier to keep chemicaly and biologicaly stable. Goldfish bowls are totally not adequate unless the owner is extremly familiar with water quality testing and mainence, which will have to be performed at least daily. While certain varieties of fancy goldfish such as the stubby-bodied Ranchu and the Bubble Eye are not very good swimmers most goldfish and Koi are very active swimmers and greatly appreciate plenty of swimming room.

[edit] Copyvio?

The Common Diseases section really really reads to me like a copy-n-paste job. -- Avocado 17:17, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it was lifted straight from http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/disease.html. I've removed the offending section. -- slieschke 03:10, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Someone had brought back the section. I removed it as it was clearly the same that was used before. If anyone would like to make a disease section, please do it yourself without copying it from elsewhere. --MercZ 20:42, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

EKN please, if you are going to copy and paste the fish diseases, atleast give credit. And please if you do so, edit the passage to be more Encyclopedia appropriate. --MercZ 04:17, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Repetition

This articles keeps restating facts. While the facts themselves are relevent, things needs only be explained once clearly under the appropriate section. I assume we're all in agreement on this. I encourage others to help clean up. Angrynight 02:56, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] how do you undo vandalism?

I found this page vandalized and i don't know how to undo. i tried my best.

Sorry about not marking my edit, it was my first revert. Angrynight 03:39, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Grammar

I've corrected some more grammar considerations. I don't mean to offend anyone for whom English is not their mother tongue, however this is an English Language site and grammar is important to a high quality article. --Brideshead 20:56, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hitler?

Why does it randomly say HITLER in the middle of the sentence saying how long goldfish can grow to be? I don't know much about fish but i doubt Hitler is a fish related term.--JMV290 21:56, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My Goldfish

My Goldfish is still, he moves his eyes and sometimes his mouth, it's in a new tank with water treatment and a filter.I have two other fish and they are lovin' it. It's just this one is hardly moving at all, even when i feed him.Is this normal?? if no then please give me some advise thanks, Frank

Is your fish floating around...yet still alive? He may have swimming bladder disease. I would like to add that the section containing advice on feeding doesnt mention swimming bladder disease, which is caused by the expansion of dry foods when eaten. The proper way to feed a fish dry food is to soak the dry food before giving it to ones goldfish. --JordanNguyen 01:40, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Feeding Relevance

Is this statment necesary in the feeding section? "The oldest living Goldfish to date was a goldfish named Goldie, which recently supplanted the previous record holder by living to the age of 45. Goldie was originally won at a fair in Budleigh Salterton, UK"

[edit] Unnecessary section...

:As for other goldfish a simple checklist can be followed that should prevent any ailment:

1. Does the tank have at least 10 gallons of water for every fish under 6 inches, with 40 gallons minimum, or at least 20 gallons for every fish under 12 inches, with at least 100 gallons minimum? If not, a bigger tank is necessary.
2. Is the tank at least four times as long and twice as wide as the largest fish in the tank? If not, the fish don't have room to swim or turn around and will be stressed out.
3. Are the ammonia and nitrite levels in the tank at zero, and the nitrates at an acceptable level? The tank needs to be properly cycled (ammonia & nitrite at undetectable levels) and water changes should be done often enough to keep nitrates low.
4. Are the fish being fed no more than they can consume in three minutes, twice per day? Overfeeding is the number one cause of death in goldfish.
5. Are all new fish that are going to be introduced to the tank first kept in a separate hospital tank for a few weeks to ensure that they don't have any diseases? Adding new fish without quarantine is effectively playing Russian roulette with the fish already in the community tank.
6. Lastly, is everything in the tank designed for aquatic use? That lovely conch shell from the beach, or that piece of wood from the yard could be leaching chemicals into your tank that wreak havoc on the water chemistry in the tank.
If these rules are followed, the only occasional worry might be an outbreak of Ich or a power failure. Even then, if the proper stocking levels are being followed even a loss of filtration to the tank for a day or two shouldn't kill off the fish.

I have a problem with the entire section above. It seems to like it was written for The Proper Care for Goldfish and not an encyclopedia. However, it's well-written and there's some great information in there. I think we should re-write the section... or failing that, remove it entirely. Thoughts? ---J.S (t|c) 17:31, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Synchronized swimming?

There is a mention in the behavior section that (groups of) goldfish can be trained to swim in synchronized formation (with each other). I believe there is only one widely distributed, and contested, video purporting to demonstrate this: it is 55 seconds long, shows 2 persons speaking Japanese with overdubbed comments in Chinese (Taiwanese?), and 4 goldfish which seem to swim in tight formation reacting to hand commands. (Search video.google.com for "goldfish ballet" for the video.) This video seems to have surfaced around February 2006. The first reference in the Wikipedia Goldfish article to synchronized swimming appears in edit Revision as of 21:58, 22 May 2006, a timeframe consistent with the appearance of the above-mentioned video, indicating perhaps this content was inserted into the article based on the video.

Whether or not the goldfish in the video are actually freely swimming in synchronized fashion - and indeed, if goldfish can be trained to this extent - appears to be a debated topic on various web forums. In this video, the fish appear to be swimming "freely" in perfect synchronization, but some posters on discussion forums on the web raised the possibility that the fish are not swimming under their own control but are somehow being invisibly dragged along by use of e.g. swallowed magnets and an electromagnet under the table.

As strong evidence of fakery, one forum poster pointed out that in the very last scene of the famous video, the right-most fish of the four is clearly struggling to swim in another direction in the water but appears to be fixed in position in formation by some unseen force or device. The video ends abruptly at this point. Further, but weaker, evidence cited is that the fins of the fish are not moving enough to account for their rapid motion, indicating they are being dragged along in formation somehow.

This relates to the behavior section of the article because it seems to be unclear if goldfish can actually be trained to swim in tight formation, a situation which has only apparently been demonstrated once, on the above-mentioned video.

So:

  • Is there another documented example of goldfish swimming synchronzied and in formation?
  • If not, what is the believability of only source for this claim: the video described above?

I'd really like to believe that goldfish can be trained to this extent, but the evidence seems weak right now. Goldfish experts, what do you think?

[edit] Good Article

I thought it was pretty well done, so I passed it. It had cited and gave images and the content was well written. Monkey Brain(talk) 23:27, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tank Size

In fact, for single-tailed varieties, such as commons or comets, it is really necessary to have 100 gallons (378 L) (for adult fish). This unreferenced statement must be absolute bullshit. A tank to hold 378 litres would be approximately 3 metres by a metre and a half, weighing around 400kg. What utter nonsense for one comet. --Brideshead 22:57, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Breed Mixing

I have read on certain websites (such as aquariumfish.net, a online seller) that goldfish from slower swimming breeds should not be mixed with faster swimming breeds because they crowd eachother out at feeding and nip. Is this true at all? I'm a beginner looking to stock my first aquarium, so someone with more experience please chime in. thanks VanTucky 20:44, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name

Where does the Goldfish name come from if they are clearly either orange or yellow. Why isn't it ornagefish? I think this could be explained somewhere in the history section?

When dealing with animals it is a common practice to "embellish" the name. Like the Blue Queensland Healer... a grey dog. I have no idea where a source could be found... it could be one of those things lost in time. ---J.S (t|c) 00:07, 3 October 2006 (UTC)