User talk:Giovanni33

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This is the Talk page for discussing changes by Giovanni33
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Archives

Archive 1 Archive 2

Contents 1 All set 2 Leif Ericson 3 Zionism article 4 Thanks for your message on Zionism. 5 Thanks 6 Problems with history section of Italy article 7 User notice: temporary 3RR block 8 Regarding reversions[2] made on September 22, 2006 to Zionism 9 You need to learn your punctuation 10 Zionism - links 11 Please consider joining me in filing an RFC over the Zionism links issue. 12 FYI 13 Al 14 Citizendium 15 Giorgio Orsini

[edit] All set

I've archived this page again. 155 kilobytes moved to /Archive2 :-) Michael Billington (talk • contribs) 23:08, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Leif Ericson

I have removed but with some evidence suggesting the Norseman penetrated as far as Minnesota, either coming down from Hudson Bay or going west through the Great Lakes. from the article, please provide a source to make such a claim, as it standed it was more original research. Lincher 12:44, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Sure. This claim can be referenced by William O Kellogg, who is former Head of the History Dept. at the highly esteemed St. Paul's School, in his texbook "American History th easy way,' 3rd Ed. ISBN 0-7641-1973-7, 2003. The actual section is on page 9 under "The Vikings." and page 8, "European Immigrants." Im sure if you researched this question, though, you'd find it in many other reputable academic sources.Giovanni33 21:54, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Zionism article

I was not planning to edit more than the intro to that article. It is indeed a notorious example of 'propaganda by Wikipedia', but this can not be corrected by individual users. The systemic preferences of Wikipedia are to blame, for instance Wikipedia gives a sourced false statement priority over an unsourced true statement. I suggest avoiding the circular discussions at the articles talk page, you could try village pump. Paul111 09:54, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for your message on Zionism.

I have been pondering an RfC or some other administrative appeal to address the frankly embarrassing level of bias on the Zionism page for some time. Any thoughts on how we should proceed on dispute resolution? BYT 14:46, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Hallo Giovanni, thanks very much for your message. It gladened me especially since it came from you, with whom I have "fought many a battle".

To clear things up, I have not been officially banned from anywhere. It is just Jim making sniding remarks against me (and later also against Ann), answering any argument from my part with accusations of trying to whitewash. In this context he found out, by looking at my user page, that I was a Catholic, and he suggested that as such I couldn't legitimately edit on Catholic issues. And yes, the term "religious racism" is very polemic, being born out of a moment of ire: it's like "no blacks here, no Catholics here". Of course, he hasn't any means of enforcing this view. To protest against it, I have altered my user page for now.

Now, I know that you do not agree with all my edits, but in this case it was merely a disagreement of whether to include a "parade of critics" and their "name calling", which I considered bloating the section without giving substantial information [1] After all, there is a main article on this subject, where all these quote are covered in detail. Jim however chose to accuse me that I wanted to mute criticism against the Pope, whereas I have repeatedly stated that I wouldn't object to a summary of the Muslim objection being included in this place.

I have tried some admins to admonish Jim, but the ones that answered have chosen to ingore it based on the argument that it were a "content dispute". I will not pursue this any further.

Thanks for your offer but I don't think you can be of assistance. Anyway the conflict has calmed down right now. But thanks again for your kind words. All the best, Str1977 ^{(smile back)} 10:59, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Problems with history section of Italy article

Giovanni, I have the Italy article on my watchlist, and I reviewed the history section a bit more closely after your edits to try and straighten it out. Eventually I tracked the problems down to some unreverted vandalism on the 14th of September(!), I think I've now restored the affected paras to their last good state (which coincidentally was a vandalism reversion I performed then), with a bit of copy-editing as I was going through. Please have a look and see what you think (for the most part it's completely over-written your changes). David Underdown 13:41, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] User notice: temporary 3RR block

Agreed, and thanks for only giving me 12 hours.Giovanni33 09:24, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

In fairness, though, he did unequivocally admit it here, and probably would have self-reverted if he had been given an opportunity to do so. Anyway, 12 hours isn't too harsh! AnnH ♫ 13:42, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Ann, but I'm happy with just 12 hours. I was just afraid of gettting a week! :)Giovanni33 16:25, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] You need to learn your punctuation

From Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style:

When punctuating quoted passages, include the punctuation mark inside the quotation marks only if the sense of the punctuation mark is part of the quotation ("logical" quotations).

One of the cited examples:

Arthur said the situation was "deplorable". (Only a fragment is quoted; the full stop [period] is not part of the quotation.)

Next time, make sure your "corrections" conform to the accepted style, and especially avoid uncivil remarks such as accusing the person nice enough to clean up after you of ignorance. A.J.A. 04:49, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Zionism - links

I don't think edit warring will help. There are too many of them, blindly subscribing to the same crazy idea. IMO, an RfC etc. is the only way to go. --Anonymous44 21:10, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I see that an edit war can be useful in some cases, but that would be the case if, for example, we were only facing A.J.A. and Hummus Sapiens. But what we have now is nearly every - what should I call them - pro-Israeli (?) editor on Wikipedia (including, sadly, an admin and ex-member of the Arbitration Committee), espousing exactly the same absurd view (the ideology of, well, POV segregation and cleansing of articles), as if it were something they learnt at primary school. They are inevitably going to be in the majority. People such as Jayjg haven't been - and apparently aren't going to be - influenced by the discussion regarding that matter on the talk page (either because they believe in their own arguments or for other reasons) and we can't expect them to give up before sheer force either, especially as we don't have sheer force anyway. Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect that a continuation of the edit war strategy in such a situation can only weaken our position if anything. Formal Dispute Resolution could (and, I dare say, should) stop them; edit warring can't, in the long run. It's just a waste of time. --Anonymous44 08:55, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please consider joining me in filing an RFC over the Zionism links issue.

I'd like to keep this as narrow as possible, and focus only on the links section. If you're interested, could I ask you to provide me with:

a) a few diffs illustrating reversions on the article page that reflect bias on the part of career editors there

b) (if you feel like it) specific instances of incivility or bias you encounted on the talk page there.

Thanks, BYT 12:24, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FYI

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ASOPHIA&diff=78930244&oldid=76109703

[edit] Al

If it was integrity of the encyclopedia they cared about he would never have been banned. None of his severest critics ever tried the line that he was harming the encyclopedia as that would call into question one of the biggest problems with this project (and in my view the thing that will eventually kill it) - biased editing and protectionism. Some of the drivers for his banning have themselves been censured by the arbcom for biased editing and wheel warring but no action was taken against them. [3] Seems it's ok for some to violate procedures and abuse admin tools "in the heat of the moment" if they are editing a touchy subject. They don't seem to understand that wikipedia is full of "touchy subjects" with only those that edit them understanding the passions and problems raised. Either the rules are to be upheld or they are not. At the moment the rules are only applied if you have managed to get up the nose of someone influential.

You can follow this up if you wish but it will be wasted time as no-one cares and Al is doing just fine as he is. Sophia 22:31, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

She's right. See Centrx's response here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Centrx&diff=next&oldid=80361530 06:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Alienus was one of the most deadly edit warriors on Wikipedia. His response to any reasonable argument was to accuse his opponents of violating Wikipedia rules and edit warring from the outset, before they had even raised a point! His removal was a triumph for the organisation. There is indeed a God.

Deadly? I beg to differ, whoever you are. This disagreement is based on much interaction with the editor. Overall, his role was beneficial, esp. his edit warring--and his removal is, contrary to your point, suggestive that there is indeed NO god (which ofcourse there is not). Wikiepedia is better with Alienus than without him. But, he has never left. :) Giovanni33 19:40, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

A prime example of what you can accomplish if you know how to do it. Good luck to him if he can manage to do it without drawing attention to himself. --Deskana talk 23:29, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citizendium

Thanks for that. Hopefully it should address some of the real issues here. It might be fun to get involved but I don't have much time at the moment and I'm very unsure about editing under my real name as there are some real cranks out there and I have kids. Sophia 22:24, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Giorgio Orsini

Hi Giovanni

We have a problem with editing the article about famous 15th century Italian architect - Giorgio Orsini. If you are knowledgeable about this man or if you know people who know about him - please, be involved or ask other people to be involved in the discussion and editing of the article about him.--GiorgioOrsini 15:39, 12 November 2006 (UTC)