Talk:Gilo

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[edit] Settlements, sources

JimmyJ, I tried to work your additions into the article. In terms of Gilo's political status, It is NPOV to note both the official Israeli position and defacto annexation that it is part of the Jerusalem Municipality, while noting the widespread position that everything Israel built in the West Bank is a settlement. Anything beyond that can be discussed on the Israeli settlement article. Unless the Gilo land consfiscation is qualitatively different than the confiscations associated with all the other West Bank issues, it should also be discussed elsewhere. Another thing that I'd like to point out is that pairing Palestinian POV sources with irrelevant[1][2] Israeli POV sources doesn't create parity. I appreciate the obvious effort that you invested in this article, and I'd be glad to discuss any further issues. (Seeing as you haven't been formally welcomed, I left a greeting on your talk page).Tewfik^Talk 07:28, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi Tewfik,

When you have universal consensus but with one dissenting opinion (Israel) it doesn't seem particularly controversial to label Gilo a "settlement". In this context it seems more appropriate to state the consensus and then mention in a side note that Israel considers Gilo a neighborhood of Jerusalem. Giving equal weight to arguments in this case seems problematic. It would be like having an article about primates and giving equal footing to Bigfoot when no one in the scientific community thinks bigfoot exists. I agree wholeheartedly that Israel's position should be noted clearly but I disagree that it should be given equal prominence.

In using two sources next to each other I wasn't trying for parity. Wiki's guidlines call for verifiability which I believe I provided. When two sources were used it means that two different facts were in the sentence that required two different sources. That one would be considered Palestinian and the other Israeli would be coincidence. In the example you provided above, both are Israeli. One is Municipality of Jerusalem in collaboration with the Jerusalem Institute for Israel Studies and the second is the Jewish Agency. All writing has a point of view, including the example above about bigfoot. Verifiability is what puts limits on hyperbole. jimmy

Hi Jimmy,

In terms of the settlement issue, I think its fair to follow the language used in articles like Neve Yaakov and Pisgat Ze'ev, which recognize the defacto status, while acknowledging the international attitudes (i.e., "Since the neighborhood is located in territory captured by Israel during the Six-Day War in 1967, it is widely considered an Israeli settlement." In terms of the sourcing, I apologise if I misunderstood your intent, however I'm not sure what statements you were backing up with the two links above, especially as the second one doesn't point to a specific article or statement. All the best, Tewfik^Talk 16:09, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Is it possible to be both a settlement and a neighbourhood? Are the two always mutualy exclusive? --74.12.96.125 23:07, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Page move

The title of this page is highly POV. I would suggest that we could get around this by moving this to Gilo and moving the current Gilo disambiguation page to Gilo (disambiguation). This seems to be the only one of the three that is actually known as 'Gilo', which would be reason enough for the move; furthermore, from a cursory look it appears that all the incoming links to the disambiguation page are meant for this page. Palmiro | Talk 17:32, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to suggest that we hold on this until the settlement/neighbourhood discussion on Talk:Pisgat Ze'ev is resolved. Cheers, Tewfik^Talk 02:43, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

It looks highly unlikely, to put it mildly, that agreement will be reached on Talk:Pisgat Ze'ev. As for this article, even if "neighborhood" wasn't a highly politicised term for places like Gilo, there really doesn't seem to be any need for a disambiguation element in the title. That is, even if you don't find the term "neighborhood" redolent of POV, there is still every reason to move this article to Gilo, for the reasons I pointe dout above.

By the way, I'm afraid I won't be around from now on, at least for some time. Palmiro | Talk 07:41, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Point taken - I'll move forward with the move. I hope you enjoy your break, but I'd like you to know that whatever divergent opinions we may share, your work is much appreciated. Cheers, Tewfik^Talk 14:04, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

I reverted to the previous version for purposes of moving the page. If/when a consensus emerges on Talk:Pisgat Ze'ev, we can find another formulation. Cheers, Tewfik^Talk 14:57, 21 May 2006 (UTC)