Talk:German legal citation
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I just started this article. I'm not expert; this came out of the project of translating the article Paragraph 175 and from my dialogue with User:Amys on the talk page of that article.
I have two requests for expansion on matters I don't know:
- Can someone expand on citing German case law? How exactly does one cite a particular case?
- For statute law where there are multiple versions of the statute, how does one indicate a particular version of the statute?
Jmabel 01:32, Sep 11, 2004 (UTC)
- I'm not an expert either, but http://www.margaret-marks.com/Transblawg/archives/000076.html has a discussion on the translation of Paragraf and Absatz. It's different in AE and BE, but Paragraf is translated as "section" which makes the translation of "Absatz" easier. In BE Absatz is then subsection, and in AE it's paragraph. Saintswithin 12:38, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- From my entry on the "Paragraph 175" talk page: § means section, not paragraph (that's ¶). Any person versed in American Law, § means section. I would recommend changing all instances of "paragraph" to "section" because this is an article on a law and I really think that you should use the standards set in the field. Essentially any attorney in the United States (and I think any barrister or solicitor in England) would say "section" when reading aloud. Absatz would be paragraph (¶). Note the following usage from U.S. v. Gecas 120 F.3d 1419 (11th Cir. 1997): "Germany does not specifically punish crimes against Jewish persons . . . under its murder statute, § 211, Nr. 1 StGB. [FN6] Unlike the Israeli statute, section 211 on its face does not apply extraterritorially. . . ." (emphasis added).
- Using the Bluebook (the standard in the U.S. for legal citation), you'd cite a case as such: <Name of collection> <volume>, <page> (<pinpoint>), e.g. BGHZ 54, 366 (367), a code thusly: <section or article> <paragraph or number> <code>, e.g. § 191 Nr. 5 ZPO, and a statute or decree like this: <full title> (<short title>), v. <day.month.year> (<legal gazette> S.<page>), e.g. Gesetz über eine Rentenversicherung der Handwerker (Handwerkerversicherungsgesetz), v. 8.9.1960 (BGBl. I S.737).
--Resipsa 15:27, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Paragraph and Paragraf in German
I see that both Paragraph and Paragraf exist as German words. Is it just a matter of alternate spelling, or is there a connotative difference? -- Jmabel 07:29, Sep 12, 2004 (UTC)
- The F version is the new spelling system, but you can use either. See http://www.duden.de/index2.html?neue_rechtschreibung/crashkurs/regel7.html Saintswithin 06:22, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Roman numerals for Absätze?
I see that a recent anonymous edit says that an Absatz should be indicated with a Roman numeral, and changed the examples. Is this a universal practice? In Paragraph 175, I followed the previous guidance here, and wrote "§ 182 (2) StGB" rather than "§ 182 II StGB". Is what I did wrong? Or is the recent change here wrong? Or are both acceptable, in which case our article should say so. -- Jmabel | Talk July 7, 2005 00:25 (UTC)
- It is my impression that this type of citation is pretty common in German law journals, but these things may depend on the publisher. I will investigate this more closely when I get to the library. Martg76 7 July 2005 21:20 (UTC)
- The formally correct abbreviation for Absätze is "Abs." i.e. "§ 182 Abs. 2 StGB". This form is used exclusively in all official documents or any texts addressed at the general public (i.e. non-lawyers). I'll adjust the article accordingly.
- However, it is common in text books and journals addressed at a legal audience to use some kind of informal shorthand. In my experience both "§ 182 II StGB" and "§ 182 (2) StGB" are used for this purpose, although I'd say that the first form of these two is much more common. Usually these texts deal predominately with paragraphs from only one statue. In that case there might even be a footnote at the first citation stating that all citations that don't refer to a particular statue are meant to refer to StGB. From then on these paragraphs would be cited simply as "§ 182 II".Hazzl 13:22, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
