Talk:Georgios Grivas
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Ok, can you site a reliable source, or do you just expect people to just take your word for it.
Grivas's X organisation was not aimed at liberating Greece from Germans. Grivas and his X were German collaborators. I am surprised that I am the first to notice this horrific revision of history. As the war draw to it's end and the allies were preparing for the aftermath, the British regarded Grivas's men as an effective ally against the leftist National Popular Front (gr. EAM), the communist-run partisans.During the months after the country's liberation (October 1944) the X were fully pardoned and the former nazists became the mainstay of the new gendarmerie. On December the 3rd, 1944, the EAM organised a rally against it's exclusion from the government posts and against the reinroduction of former collaborators into the armed forces. Grivas's snipers opened fire, killing scores of people and leading to the December conflict: EAM partisans faught the newly formed police and thousands of British troops for control of the capital. Grivas's extreme nationalism and anti-communist were more than evident in his return to Cypus. Turkish-Cypriots and AKEL communists (who were rightly suspicious of a guerilla movement led by the notorious Grivas and favoured mass political action against the colonial rule instead) were dubbed as traitors and executed.
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[edit] Cleaning
I removed an external link because it was broken. I also removed statements like "X was definetely a terrorist organisation" and "the coop(=coup?) lead to the turkish invasion", not because I disagree with them politically but because I think they don't really fit in a Wikipedia article. Instead I ve tried to include all points of view on X and since Grivas was dead when the coup happened there is no point in arguing whether the coup caused the invasion in this article. Mavros 12:21, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
[edit] More about Cyprus
I have added more material about Grivas and Cyprus. I have left the bits about Greece and the Nazi era substantially unaltered.
The coup of 1974 is definitely part of Grivas' legacy. As related in the article, EOKA B had been plotting against Makarios for years, and the fact that is was not used in the actual execution of the coup was more accidental than intentional. And relating the fact that the Turkish military invasion swiftly followed the coup is the least that can be said about the relationsip between the two events.
[edit] Disgrace!
Category:Fascists??? Kentucky Colonels??? "X" = German collaborators??? This article is a disgrace on wikipedia. NPOV has totally gone out the window and so has reality! Btw, the December events started when the EAM attacked X members, British troops and anyone else they could get a hold of.
My father served in the Cypriot National Guard 1n 1963-64. As soon as he entered the gate when reporting in for the first time, an officer checked his name and place of birth (village) and automatically placed a red star (communist) on his military papers. I remember my father saying to me that he was not the only one. All of the people with left ideologies were marked by officers for special treatment. My father had a brief meeting with Grivas. Him and three other left ideologists all friends were brought in front of Grivas because they belonged to AKEL and shared similar left-democratic ideologies. Grivas then, used a bayonet to produce a small scar on each side of the soldiers. My father has that scar, and it is at least 4-6 cm long. Grivas was a monster. A number of books written by numerous authors all in Greek will provide evidence about his organisation X. During the resistance in Greece, his organization was collaborating with the Nazis against the resistance in which at the time was mainly ELAS. A sworn anti-communist, Grivas turn to the British for help to wipe out all the Greek communists of ELAS after the end of the WWII. I am tired to hear right-wing nationalists who brought nothing bad destruction to Cyprus trying to turn things around and portray Grivas as a hero. Everybody knows in Cyprus that left-wing Cypriots were not allowed to join EOKA because of their political beliefs. Grivas died before the Turkish Invasion but he was the main man for EOKA B. He was the one who wanted president Makarios dead. All right-wings should not forget that both both Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots voted 97% to unify with Greece. We also know how Great Britain used "Divide and Conquer" to rule Cyprus by forcing right-wing Turkish Cypriots to form TNT and fight the Greek Cypriots. We also know that nationalistic right wing Greek-Cypriots tried to kill as many Turkish Cypriots as possible. Both of my parents are refugees. They lost everything after the invasion. I personally use Wikipedia every day. I feel that Wikipedia has let me down. In the future I think it's prudent to report facts and not to manipulate people by trying to pass lies. And since this article is written in English and not in Greek, I think someone has to edit the whole article about Grivas.
In my opinion Grivas is on the top of the list of the Greek heroes of the 20th century. He fought bravely against the British conquerors and no communist traitor can accuse him because he didn't let communists join EOKA. You are an idiot if you believe that the 97% which voted for union included turko-cypriots. The Tc simply didn't voted. So Grivas was helping the British, right? You are completely biased my friend. About WWII, X bought weapons from the Germans, yes. But it wasn't collaborating with them, it just had a silent truce. X's goal was to fight ELAS, who massacred right-wing civilians and wanted to establish a communist dictatorship in Greece. Grivas was a sworn anti-communist, yes. According to you, this is a heavy sin. But if he was a communist a wanted his country to be turned into a puppet of the Soviet Union, and have the fate of Hungary and Romania, he would be hero!!!!!! What you wrote is just a piece of communist propaganda. In Greece, this kind of propaanda is on the school books. But one day this will change... Mitsos 15:57, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
This is not about communism or imperialism my friend. Grivas was a sworn anti-communist monster who supported the NAZIS. Do we agree on that? If you do not, then we need to stop here. In my opinion, anyone who supported the AXIS during WWII should not be treated as a hero or have monuments build to honor them. Grivas supporters claim that he forced the British out of Cyprus. Did he? Well, the British Bases in Cyprus provide you with all the evidence you need. The British granted us independence because they wanted to and they had to follow similar ideologies granting self determinations to most other ex-British colonies, not because they were forced to. Do you know how many British soldiers were killed during 1955-1959? Well, don't go far because the British Foreign Office has given these numbers that amount to less than 120. Do you know how many Cypriots from EOKA got killed? Well, if I am not mistaken, and try to prove me wrong those numbers are way more than 300 souls. Do you call that a success? In my opinion no. Grivas did cooperate with the British after the Germans left Greece. Do you honestly believe that British did not know where Grivas was hiding in Cyprus. I live in the US my friend and I can definitely tell you that countries such as the US, the British, Israel and Russia are well on top of things. I would first call it a shame, but now I would call it stupidity more than anything else to believe that the US, the British or the Soviets at the time would allow you to unify Cyprus with Greece. Do not forget my friend that we Greeks can never be slaves or change our religion, but that has nothing to do with what the US, Britain or USSR at the time thought of us. They already had an agenda decided, and Turkey was the favorite. I hope you read the conversation that Kissinger had with the British foreign minister at the time. They both knew about the invasion. Doesn't that say something to you. I guess not. Fanaticism seriously damages your judgment. And if you are Greek that you claim to be then you should try your best in the future and do not let your government sell Cyprus as they did in 1974, because we the Cypriots love Greece but we still have a bitter taste since 1974. Don't sell us again...
"This is not about communism or imperialism my friend. Grivas was a sworn anti-communist monster who supported the NAZIS." No, he simply didn't fought the Nazis, he didn't supported them. "In my opinion, anyone who supported the AXIS during WWII should not be treated as a hero or have monuments build to honor them." Why do you think that? If you were a German wouldn't you support your fatherland??? Would you become a traitor??? Many soldiers of the Axis fought and died heroicaly. Why shouldn't they have monuments build to honor them? The British Bases in Cyprus are the result of Makarios policy, not Grivas. Grivas was right to oppose Makarios. "Grivas did cooperate with the British after the Germans left Greece." This is blatantly not true. I don't know why exactly the British left Cyprus, but I know that Grivas fought against them , heroicaly, in an inequal battle. Many members of EOKA, like Euagoras Pallikaridis, gave their lives for the independence of Cyprus. You say that the rebellion of EOKA wasn't succesfull because 300 Greeks died and only 120 British. Do you know that more than 200.000 Greeks and only 100.000 Turks died during the War of Independence?? So in your opinion, it was a failure!!!!! You are right, the traitorous "Greek" government in 1974 (Karamanli) did sold Cyprus. "I hope you read the conversation that Kissinger had with the British foreign minister at the time. They both knew about the invasion. Doesn't that say something to you." Of course I know that. I never claimed that's not true. Makarios, Karamanlis and the political establishment of Greece, were the ones who sold Cyprus in 1974. Mitsos 12:17, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Grivas is a disgrace for Cyprus.
Grivas was on the payroll of the CIA trained to get underprivileged Greek-Cypriot youths to fight in his EOKA-B group. HE KILLED GREEK-CYPRIOTS that were for the government of Cyprus. He supported the coup. What ever happened to the democratic process? Telling me that is not a traitor is like telling me there was no Armenian or Pontian genocide. Too bad he died right before the invasion. War criminal and traitor to the Republic of Cyprus. He is no hero.(UNFanatic 19:19, 13 December 2006 (UTC))
And then you woke up. Too bad. ΕΟΚΑ Β ΞΑΝΑΧΤΥΠΑ! Mitsos 19:52, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
