Talk:Georgia (U.S. state)

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This is the old state flag. The new one went into effect this week. Anyone know where we can find a picture of the new flag? -- Zoe

New Flag updatedJohnb210 17:59, 28 October 2006 (UTC)


Hey AllI have added a poll to the Talk:Georgia regarding the moving of Georgia (country) to Georgia. Please go vote, non binding, all the rest. I am simple seeing who out there is still interested in this topic and I don't want to do something preemtively. 24.68.208.246 21:02, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

It was suggested on VfD that the following information should be added to this page. It is from Largest Cities in the State of Georgia which now redirects here. I think it would mess up the look of the page if it was added so I haven't done it but someone might want to try. Angela

The following is a list of the largest cities in Georgia; all figures are according to the 2000 census, only including the population of the core city (without the metropolitan areas).

  1. Atlanta - 416,474
  2. Augusta - 199,775
  3. Columbus - 186,291
  4. Savannah - 131,510
  5. Macon - 97,255
  6. Albany - 76,939
  7. Warner Robins - 48,804
  8. Athens - 45,734
  9. Valdosta - 43,724
  10. Rome - 34,980

Contents

[edit] Seal of Georgia

Can anyone add more to the Seal of Georgia as well as linking it here?? 66.32.240.129 15:09, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Multimember Constituencies

What voting system is used in those constituencies where two or more members of the state House of Representatibes are to be elected?

Syd1435 05:37, 2004 Nov 12 (UTC)

[edit] Flag of Georgia link

I want to see if there is any way to change the link to Flag of Georgia to a link to Flag of Georgia (U.S. state). Any way to do this?? 66.245.31.111 00:46, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It wasn't possible with the template. I just substituted the template in my sandbox and edited the code so that it would work. See Help:Template#Subst for more information. WAvegetarian (talk) (email) (contribs) 23:50, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Republic of New Africa?

Why is this even on the Georgia page? I have lived here my entire life and have never heard of this movement, and I live in a county that is approximately 50% African-American. This is a not notable.

That piece of information is completely irrelevant to the article and should be removed. --TheNationalist 22:14, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] On this article's title

Any opinions on this new, wordy title of the article compared to the long-standing Georgia (U.S. state) title?? Georgia guy 15:42, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

I have restored the prior title: this move, potentially contentious, wasn't discussed nor done through consensus. Moreover, related votes to move the parent article of U.S. state to United States state have been discussed and have not met with success.
Before moving this article again, please discuss and garner consensus or properly propose it at WP:RM. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 15:49, 25 February 2006 (UTC)


I'd like to suggest that this be the page you get when you search for Georgia, and the disambiguation is offered as a link (to provide consistency for all US states). Or, conversely, the rest of the states to adhere to Georgia's setup. Either or. Darquis 02:24, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

The problem with the first idea is that "Georgia" does often refer to the independent country; while most USians looking for "Georgia" want to see this article, that's not universal. At the same time, it would make little sense for every US state to get (U.S. state) appended on the end (which I assume you're suggesting), as in very, very few cases is there any confusion. The only important example I can think of is New York (state) vs. New York City, but that's easily resolved because the city's name includes City. In every other situation, any alternate use of a state's name would clearly be subsidiary to its use as a state name, so renaming forty-nine pages to conform to one exception makes little sense.
Good idea, but I just don't think it works out. --SuperNova |T|C| 02:02, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Stupid forgetting to sign. Fixed that.
Anyway, I see your point. I think Washington gets a fair amount of that too (given that the state was named after the person) but if there's enough traffic coming for the country rather than the state, then leaving it as is won't bother me that much. Darquis 02:24, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cities per citizen

On average, there is 1 city government for every 23.6 citizens in Georgia, and this is expected to increase to 1 for every 20 by the year 2008.

I don't understand this sentence, so I removed it pending explanation. It sounds like it says that, if you divide the number of people in Georgia by the number of cities, you get 23.6. Obviously, this makes no sense. According to the List of cities in Georgia, USA article, there are about 400 cities in the state. Even if this list were not exhaustive, for the 23.6 number to be right, there would neeed to be nearly 350,000 cities. I went ahead and cut it out, but I assume it had a purpose once, so I hope someone can clarify or fix it. Thanks, y'all! --SuperNova 08:41, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Five largest ancestries?

In the Demographics section, the five most common ancestries are listed as "African, American, British, German, and Irish." Now is "American" supposed to be Native American? Or was African-American inadvertently split in two? I'm a Lover, Not a Fighter 06:05, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Many US residents (especially in the South; 7% nationwide in Census) report their ancestry as "American" because their family has been in the New World for centuries and no immigrant ancestors are immediately known; however, "areas with the largest "American" ancestry populations were mostly settled by English, French, Welsh, Scottish and Irish". For more info, see: Racial demographics of the United States and Maps of American ancestries. Hope this helps! --SuperNova |T|C| 22:09, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Might you add a note of citizens of the area which come from German descent. German ancestry was not commonly reported until twenty years ago in the region. Due to the regions growth which has attracted high paying jobs from northern cities, the movement from areas like the midwest, northeast, west, and Texas have boosted the German ancestry which is not one that is commonly found in all other parts of Georgia with the exception of the "Salzburgers".

[edit] NPOV

  • On a different NPOV note. Are we to suppose by the History section that subsequent to the moundbuilder's disappearance, this geographic region was entirely abandoned and therefore open to European settlement? I doubt that was any author's intention. Unfortunately, that's how the article reads. I wish to urge someone familiar with this region's pre-European history to provide some brief background along with links to appropriate articles. I see the hole, but I don't have the expertise to fill it in. Rklawton 16:21, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


  • I have brought this article into NPOV standards to read "Southeastern". --Bookofsecrets 19:40, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WARNING: -Bookofsecrets = editor on loose denies GA was Southern

"Bookofsecrets" is a loose cannon who claims "southern" is a naughty racist word. His only evidence seems to be a highway map. WATCH OUT GEORGIA~ Rjensen 22:47, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually, this was fully hashed out in the Tennessee Talk page, and Rjensen lost the argument there. Now he's kicking up the same old dust here. I would encourage folks interested in the details of this discussion to visit Talk:Tennessee. The short version is that "Southern" is a bit POV for the main body of the article (Southern has very specific, historical connotations) and is not very geographically specific. Southeastern doesn't have the historical baggage, and it's much more specific. However, it's all been said already in TN. Rklawton 23:21, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Changing the term changes the history of the state? Huh. Also, you might want to contact the Census Bureau. --Golbez 00:17, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
You are right that the Census Bureau classifies these states as being in the "South" (which is an official census region) rather than the "Southeast". Personally, though, I don't see that it makes any difference which one is used. Unfortunately Bookofsecrets seems somewhat diplomatically-challenged, so the result has been a multi-article edit war. It would be nice if we could start this discussion over without all the hemming and hawing. I would suggest that rather than demanding a change of region terminology, perhaps it would be more productive to try to persuade respected long-standing editors (such as Rjensen) that a change in terminology might somehow improve things (or at least not hurt anything). It seems to me that if both Bookofsecrets and Rklawton would tone down their rhetoric a bit and attempt to build consensus rather than acting so aggressively, we could all reach an amicable solution. Talking about who "won the argument" is not helpful or civil. Kaldari 01:33, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Controversial?

What is controversial about this article exactly? savidan(talk) (e@) 01:34, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

There was one point of controversy, discussed just above this point. However, you're correct that the article as a whole is not controversial. I removed the template, as things seem to have been somewhat resolved. Further discussion, if needed, does not require that the entire article on a US state be listed as "controversial". 68.1.139.172 02:52, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
(Sorry, the above point was from me. Must have gotten logged out. --SuperNova |T|C| 02:54, 15 May 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Issue?

Under the title Georgia did not have its beginning as a penal colony, Mary Anne Richardson says that:

"As time went on, settlers objected to the restrictions, looking to the financial success of the plantation economy of South Carolina. In 1750 the trustees reluctantly allowed slavery. By the time the charter expired in 1752, the trustees had become disillusioned. Georgia became a royal colony in 1755 and remained so for the rest of the colonial period. Georgia began as a "noble experiment," it was not a penal colony. I was horrified to see that Wikipedia includes that mistaken notion."

Is this true, and do we need to make some modifications? - Ta bu shi da yu 23:55, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

It looks like the needed changes have been made. I'm glad we've corrected this inaccuracy; thanks for pointing out the letter. (NB: I know the letter writer quite well, so I feel sure she has her facts right. This article as currently written seems to be consistent with the Georgia history I learned.) --SuperNova |T|C| 06:20, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Move Discussion about the Georgia DAB page

Just so people know, it's that time of year again, there is a on going discussion on what page should occupy the topic page of Georgia, this doesn't directly effect this page, but I figured someone would at least give people the heads up. It's over at the country talk page: Talk:Georgia (country)PPGMD 21:59, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] notability of Georgia Allman Brothers Band Association?

A user has been edit-warring for deleting this entry:

  • GABBA (Georgia Allman Brothers Band Association), a U.S. non-profit organisation dedicated to preserve the history of the The Allman Brothers Band [1]

from the disambiguation page Gabba, arguing that it's not notable enough to ever have a Wikipedia article, and thus to be listed as a redlink on a dab page.

You can provide information (positive or negative) about it at the discussion page Talk:Gabba so as to help sort it out.

Thanks,

-- 62.147.112.36 15:01, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why Georgia (U.S. state) and not Georgia (state) or Georgia (USA)?

I don't wanna get mixed up in the disambiguation arguments elsewhere, but I would like to know why Georgia (U.S. state) was chosen as the page name over simpler titles (my favorite is Georgia (state)). I realize that the word state, out of context, can imply sovereign state, but moving this page to Georgia (state) would allow users to reach it directly without using punctuation or capitalization. This is how the French and Spanish pages do it. Alternately, if we are concerned about the ambiguity of the word state, we could move the page to Georgia (USA), as the Italian and Portuguese pages do. (In many other languages, like German, the country and state are spelled differently, allowing for natural disambiguation.) Either way, the page title would be much more natural than it currently is. (It may also ease the pain of any future redirect (gasp!) of Georgia (country) to Georgia. Cheers from Atlanta Alcuin 17:47, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the usual meaning of "state" as "sovereign area" would make Georgia (state) far too ambiguous (though it does currently redirect here, as does (USA)). Maybe Georgia (USA) could work, but I think the present term is most precise. Trust me, I hate typing all those periods and capitals as much as the next guy, but this is perhaps the only name for this article that won't invite another massive dispute. --SuperNova |T|C| 00:07, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Climate

Just added a section on climate(where there was not one), because I think that is a must for a US state article. Consider that many of the people who read the Georgia article might be someone traveling to Georgia curious as to what to wear or someone considering relocating to the state of Georgia(yeah, I know- just what Georgia needs, more Yankees). Anyway, although I've spent much time in Georgia (as someone who lived in Florida, but took many weekend trips there) I'm sure many people could come up with a better section than me. But I figured I'd at least start it. Jcam 14:50, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

24.99.142.106:
I reverted your wholesale edits of the climate section because you appeared to have no good reason for the changes you made. If you did, you left the reason(s) out of your edit summaries. Jcam[2]and I provided what I thought was a good start to the climate section. I added on to Jcam's edits. In contrast, you didn't appear to leave any part of our edits untouched. If you had (greatly) improved the quality, there would be no issue. But your edits leave much to be desired. Your contained a lot of prose but few facts and even fewer verifiable facts. Let's break it down:
Georgia's climate varies with elevation perhaps greater in comparison to other southeastern states.
Perhaps greater? This is not verified and maybe not even verifiable. It relies on the weasel word "perhaps" to make half a claim. Maybe the difference in climate between far southeastern and far northeastern corners of the state is due a combination of elevation, latitude, and proximity to the Atlantic Ocean, and not just elevation. If we can find that a reliable source has done this analysis, perhaps it could be included, but not before then.
Georgia is often classified as having a Humid Subtropical climate with distinct wet or dry seasons.
Often classified? By whom? Does all of Georgia have distinct wet and dry seasons? Does Clayton, GA have a distinct dry season? If so, what season is it? Summer (June-July-August (the meteorological defintion of Summer))? With an average of 5.673" per month? What is the dry season in Columbus, GA? Fall (Sept.-Oct.-Nov.)? What is the dry season in Savannah, GA? Winter (Dec.-Jan.-Feb.)? Does each part of Georgia have a different part of the year for their dry season (and wet season)?
What about Valdosta's dry season? Fall, right? Or is it spring? What about Atlanta? I can't even make a guess. I can only say that the dry season is not in July, March, or January.
The uniform summertime weather on any given particular day anywhere in the state can be described as day time temperatures anywhere between 85-105 degrees farenheit with overnight lows ranging from 60-80 degrees.
I'm not sure what "uniform summertime weather" or "on any given particular day anywhere" means. How often do highs reach 105 in Georgia in the summer? Once every 4 years? Every 5 years? It's just a guess without looking for a source, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't happen very often.
However in the low country region the temperature is often moderate with higher levels of humidity compared to central and northern parts of Georgia.
Where is the "low country region"? If it's, let's say, east of an Augusta-Valdosta, line, it sounds reasonable if you're referring to absolute humidity (dewpoint) and not relative humidity (I would guess that the higher hills of northern Georgia might frequently have higher relative humidity). But there's no source for your claim.
For example on an extremely hot day temperature in Macon all the way up to the Rome area including all of Metro Atlanta may top anywhere from 98-105 degrees while places like Savannah and Valdosta may be anywhere from 95-100 but with 10 degrees higher dew points.
You're giving specifics but no sources. Also, I think it would be hard to give a source for "an extremely hot day". Maybe you could find data on the average highest yearly temperature (the single hottest temperature of each year averaged together) or dewpoint for these locations, and especially average high temperatures and average afternoon dewpoints.
In July and August Drought and Heat Advisory are often posted for the North and Central parts of the state.
How often? It needs a source. "Often" can be interpreted many ways and it appears to function as a weasel word in this sentence.
Winters in Most of Georgia with the exception of the Mountainous areas are fairly mild with temperatures ranging from 40-70 degrees during the daytime and 20-50 degrees during the night.
Same as above. There're no sources. At what site is 40 the average high? Is this an unofficial mountaintop site or an official NWS site? Looking at Clayton, GA again the average high in January is 49 °F. Where in the state is the average low 50 °F? Brunswick, in the far southeast corner on the Atlantic coast, has an average low in January of 44 °F. I would think this is among the warmest (if not the warmest) average nighttime lows in the state. If you can find a reliable source that says otherwise, perhaps we can include it. Where in the state averages 70 °F for a high in the winter? Valdosta appears to be the warmest, averaging 64 °F in January and under 70 °F for the whole winter.
The Metro Atlanta area on average sees measurable snowfall amounts about once every 2 to 3 years.
I would think that it's more often than that. This claim lacks a source.
Icestorms, hard freezes, and gloomy seemingly unending rain are more frequent weather occurences throughtout the state.
This reads a poem and not an encyclopedia. How does one verify that the rain that falls in Georgia is "gloomy" and "seemingly unending"?
Unlike the rest of the country Winters in Georgia are accompanied with more than abundant mild days through the majority of the state.
Who defines "more than abundant"? What about "mild"? Someone in south Florida might think a mild winter day is one where the temperature reaches 70 °F. Someone in northern Michigan call a winter day where the temperature reaches 45 °F a mild day. Why risk being ambiguous when we have data that we can use to make the point?
Below zero recordings have never occured in most parts south of the fall line.
South of where? The fall line? Where are the sources.
I haven't even talked yet about all of the capitalization, grammar, and other MOS mistakes, but I don't want to beat a dead horse. The version prior to your edits had sources which were deleted without explanation. As you have been warned before several times before (User_talk:24.99.142.106), and I've just discussed your recents edits to this article (both reasons for reverting and recommendations for how you could better contribute in the future), I hope you will start making more constructive edits. Thanks. Ufwuct 17:29, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok than you for tearing the mysterious editor new hole, but remember when your writing that climate section you writing to readers internationally, I suggest you drop your arrogance and take a look at other southeastern states sections on climate.

P.S. not everone understands your meteorlogical terms, why not write a section from a unbiased point of view rather than summing it up with difficult words from both of you to say "Georgia is unbelievably mild" or "Georgia is unbelievably hot"

[edit] Spain And England?

Shouldnt the article on Spain and England be expanded? For such does anyone have dates for the beginning or even the end of this battle?. "After decades of fighting, the Carolinians and allied Indians permanently destroyed the Spanish mission system during the invasions of 1702 and 1704. After 1704, Spanish control was limited to St. Augustine and Pensacola." A peace treaty, or the specific day? I find this very important and troubling that I can not find this information. Tgcomicman 15:51, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

There's more information about the Carolinian and Indian destruction of Spanish Florida in the pages Apalachee Massacre, James Moore (South Carolina politician), and Colonial period of South Carolina (esp the section "War of Augustino"). I was surprised to learn this bit of rarely taught American history. I was first clued into it when seeing on an old map some text in north Florida that said something like "The Carolina English defeated the Spanish in two memorable battles in 1702 and 1704". I thought, memorable? Seems to have been forgotten now!
I don't think there was a peace treaty, unless it was the general peace between England and Spain. The Florida battles took place during a larger war between the two nations. I'm not sure if the specific date is known. I'll check an excellent book I have with very detailed information on this era and region called "The Indian Slave Trade" by Alan Gallay. I could add some info to this article later if I find the time, although it is not directly related to the history of Georgia, since these events pre-date the founding of Georgia by some decades... still it arguably made the English colony of Georgia possible. Pfly 21:23, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] University System of Georgia

One of the colleges that you left out of the list of the Georgia university system is Bainbridge Community College in Decatur county. Jim

[edit] Important cities and towns

The section Important cities and towns seems to be getting a bit long and perhaps out of hand. While I don't want to pick on any one community, the last town listed is Pembroke, population 2,379 - can that really be considered an "important" city or town? This highlights that the whole section may suffer from a POV problem. Additionally, the section now lists suburbs, micropolitan areas and even militaty bases. My suggestion is that it be renamed to something like Largest cities, with the rest of the information listified. There may be other ways to re-organize this that may more sense. Any thoughts?--Tlmclain | Talk 23:31, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Changed to Major cities and towns. I made a judgment call and left the military bases in. They are among the state's largest communities. -- Rob C (Alarob) 01:33, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Rob C - good changes. At least with respect to the metropolitan Atlanta area, the information is adequately handled by Template:Atlanta Metro. Thanks for making a move.--Tlmclain | Talk 03:53, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I think it is important to somehow note that those populations are for each of the MSAs not the cities listed. For instance I know Valdosta's population is nowhere over 100k+. The table looks good, but can we better emphasize that these are populations of each individual MSA? --Mjrmtg 12:50, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Large cities
City Name City Population Metropolitan Area Population
Atlanta 416,474 4,917,717
Good point. Perhaps a table like this:
Unfortunately, I can't work on this right now and the table needs some research and clean-up(the data for Atlanta is a mix of the 2000 census data for the city population and the 2005 estimate for the metro area). If somebody else doesn't get to it first, I'll work on it when I can.--Tlmclain | Talk 13:45, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I really like that table idea :) --Mjrmtg 13:56, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Table Inserted

In accordance with the above discussion, I have inserted a table under Major cities and military bases. Feel free to edit it. I also think that the micropolitan areas should now be deleted from this section.--Tlmclain | Talk 05:09, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I love the new table, thanks for adding it. The micropolitan areas should either have a table also like this one, or just be deleted. --Mjrmtg 14:02, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
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