User talk:Genyo

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Happy editing, Isomorphic 05:47, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Rules of the game

Genyo, please visit Wikipedia:Community Portal for guedelines about editing. In particular about the standard article layout. I noticed you often add unnecessary links at the end. (The subsection, for *extra* links, should be "Related articles") Mikkalai 17:10, 7 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Lemko

I noticed you removed a paragraph from Lemko as inaccurate. I have no opinion on the change, but it is considered good form to explain removals on an article's talk page. I suggest you put an explanation of your removal on Talk:Lemko.—Eloquence 04:05, Mar 24, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks - its nice to have some praise in the battle against what you accurately called "the red and white elephant". PMA 14:50, Mar 24, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Russian language relations

You have been pushing the story that the closest relative of Russian is Bulgarian.

Putting politics aside (good grief, man, it's a linguistic article), please cite your sources by name. The theory is extremely unorthodox on linguistic grounds: the fall of the yers with the distinction between ь and ъ strongly maintained, the full-voicing of Comman Slavonic -tort-, -tert- mostly into -torot-, -teret-, and almost universally so in the spoken dialects (much more strongly than the "literary" style), the lack of nasals as far back as the 10th century in both Kievan/Kyivan (OR/OUk КіЕвъ, Е=yat) and Novgorod documents vs. their maintenance for quite a while longer in Bulgarian, the distinct lack of postpositional definite article, the kept softening of final -ть in the 3rd person of the present tense of the verb in the southern dialects... Need I go on? All these have been accepted reasons why Russian is East Slavic, not South Slavic. The fact that the literary language has been influenced by OCS/CS is well known and freely acknowledged in the article.

I am not averse to putting in that "some" scholars maintain that R's closest relative is Bulgarian. However, the theory is so much in contradiction to the accepted norms for however many decades or centuries that it really should be dealt with, for now, as a special case, and I'd like to know who your sources are.

Also, your other edits about patriotism, etc., verge on POV. The sentence as it stands is the most neutral one I could come up with. You realize, I suppose, that the treatment of ethnic Russians in Latvia has provoked appeals to the European Court of Human Rights? Yet that whole point was omitted exactly because to say that the ex-Soviet republics/newly freed nations have discouraged Russian merely states a fact. You changed it to "encouraged their native languages" or domething of the sort. I think the two are equivalent, but since the article is about Russian, NOT Latvian, or Ukrainian, or whatever, the focus should have remained on Russian in this article. But have it your way, it doesn't matter so very much.

One last point: the inluence of Ukrainian. Whatever you may think, the Russians themselves consider Kievan Rus a part of their history. The Muscovite tsars were until 1598 descendants of Oleg/Olyh, Igor/Ihor... Рюриковичи. So whatever the date for the final divergence into distinct national languages (and notice I've only stated the consensus that it had already been achieved by the emergence of Muscovy as a political centre at the latest), ALL of the old monuments belong equally to both. You do realize that the earliest extant manuscripts of the Primary Chronicle and the Slovo o Polku were written down in non-Ukrainian territory? As for later influences (I suppose you mean Gogol, etc.), they are made very debatable by the fact it is not quite known to what extent writers whose vernacular language was a dialect of Ukrainian but who wrote in Russian actually thought of themselves not only as Ukrainians ("Malorossy", etc., I know the term is considered offensive today, so I don't use it), but also not Russians, i.e. members of a larger "Russian" family than that allowed by Ukrainian patriots today. Let's leave that topic out, it is contentious and barren.

Until then, I'm doing a revert. Please, cite your sources for Bulgarian. Look, I don't want an edit war with you. A. Shetsen 06:11, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

  • Mr. Shetsen.
Please calm down! You're overheating my computer! It can't take that much emotion! What kind of monastery are you in?
First of all, if you didn't wan't a revision war, as you claimed, why did you assert that you reverted before discussing the issue with me? Genyo 23:20, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:A._Shetsen"
No emotion. Just a discussion of content, that's all. BTW, I'm still curious what your sources are. A. Shetsen 23:37, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • as for Russian being closer to Ukrainian or Bulgarian, start with the alphabet; which two are closer? Genyo 23:41, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:A._Shetsen"
Let's forget for a moment that the alphabet is just a set of symbols used to represent the language, and can be changed at whim. By your logic then, Serbian is closer to Ukrainian than to Croatian, since the first two use variants of Cyrillic, while the third is written in a different script altogether. Is that what you are saying? A. Shetsen 00:02, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • you sincerely want to know what I am saying, please read what I am saying: Once again:
as for Russian being closer to Ukrainian or Bulgarian, start with the alphabet; which two are closer?
Genyo 00:15, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:A._Shetsen"
  • Obviously, the Russian alphabet is closer to the Bulgarian than to the Ukrainian. If that's your only reason, I reject it as per the above. If there's more, may I please ask you to state your entire argument in one message (length doesn't matter). A. Shetsen 00:20, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Genyo, you misunderstand. Alphabets are irrelevant for comparing languages. Look at Turkish. They started with Arabic and moved to a Latin script without any change to the language however it's not a semitic language like Arabic or an Indo-European one like Latin (or the Slavic languages). Russian, Ukrainian and Belarussian are all Eastern Slavic and more closely related to each other than to Bulgarian which, although Slavic, is from the Southern branch of the group. I can understand what you are saying but it is just not correct. Gest 09:50, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Let's reformat Ukrainian regions

Hi Genyo. I found out we have some routine work to do. Have you seen the structure of "Ukraine" category, "Regions of Ukraine" and "Towns of Ukraine" articles? I think they are too confusing and complicated. May be we should reformat all region articles to oblast' pattern (like Odes'ka oblast')? BTW, do you know some way of automating such recursive task? Does everybody know? AlexPU

I'm glad you're in! Here is a plan of attack. I'm going to rewrite Regions of Ukraine to make some explanations for further changes. When finished, I'll let you know and will be expecting your proofreading and possible additions to that article. Having done that, I think we should change the pages for each oblast', first of all, the names of those. As you could see, some oblast's named in Russian version and most of them - in noun form (Poltava is a capital for Poltava). Which is definitely incorrect for either Ukrainian or many other languages. I suggest to split this job equally: I'll do Cherkasy to Luhans'k, you'll take the rest. Any other proper editing for oblast' pages are wellcomed. Deal?
What seems to be a problem, is a system of redirect pages and categories. I don't know yet how to make and change this stuff. May be you do?
Your idea regarding historical regions and extinct subdivisions is great. As being more historian than I am, you could do a special page on these with the link from the main page. The most important, of course, would be our historical lands such as Halychyna. But gubernias and Polish voivodstvas on Ukrainian territory are also important. But again, it needs a redirection changes too.
BTW, drop to see my latest edition on the history of Kiev. The last section (since the end of WWII) is coming soon (I hope soon). Best wishes, AlexPU 13:13, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Hi Genyo, I've just added Subdivision of Ukraine. Would you look across it, may be change something? And I think you may start your historical page while we're busy on oblast's AlexPU
Hi Genyo. Your editing to Subdivision of Ukraine is great (except of the one minor thing which I'll discuss later). Sorry for delaying answer. I was busy with our f**** elections. Hope to continue cooperation with you. AlexPU

Hi Genyo, and Alex. I've been doing some categorizing in Ukrainian articles, and was thinking of attacking the oblasti myself. Glad to see some good heads on it, and I'd like to help out. Any open tasks for me? I'd be glad to work on categories, navboxes, and the maps. —Michael Z.

We've made some progress. Report at Talk:Subdivisions of Ukraine. —Michael Z. 22:21, 2004 Sep 23 (UTC)

[edit] List of cities in Ukraine

Hi Genyo.

Have a look at List of cities in Ukraine. Someone has done a good job updating all the Ukrainian names. I've found a couple of mistakes, and checked all of the English names, and put the results on the talk page. Please have a look, and correct/add/delete as necessary. When we're done, I'll merge the results into that page.

—Michael Z. 17:42, 2004 Oct 3 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Ukrainian subdivisions

Pryvit, Genyo. I've gone ahead and created WikiProject Ukrainian subdivisions. Now we can discuss this work in one place, instead of in our many user talk pages. I've taken the liberty of adding your name to the project page, and I'm going to move some of our discussion there. Please let me know what you think. На здоров’я!  Michael Z. 04:12, 2004 Oct 4 (UTC)

[edit] UGCC

Hi Genyo,

I haven't heard back from you regarding the UGCC discussion. Ornil 20:03, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Join RWNB!

Hello, Genyo! Though you might be interested in the Russian wikipedians' notice board. Come check it out! KNewman 04:28, Dec 10, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Article Licensing

Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 2000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" template into their user page, but there are other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

Option 1
I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:
{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}

OR

Option 2
I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions to any [[U.S. state]], county, or city article as described below:
{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" with "{{MultiLicensePD}}". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know what you think at my talk page. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. -- Ram-Man (comment| talk)

[edit] Old Ruthenian or Old Russian

Hi Genyo. I think you'll be interested in the debate about the English title for давноруська мова. Please have a look and contribute at Talk:Old_Ruthenian_language#Latest_changes_by_Ghirlandajo and Wikipedia:Requested_moves#December 22. Thanks, Michael Z.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../g/e/n/User_talk%7EGenyo_dcf1.html"