Talk:General Six-Principle Baptists
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I made some changes to the article that hopefully will better reflect that there is no direct connection between the original Six-Principle Baptist denomination and the new group that is related in name only. - Rlvaughn 21:57, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] erroneous statements
03:54, 11 December 2006 Chaplain Burnette (Talk | contribs) m (→Current status - Changed to correct erroneous statements made by another person who is not part of the SPB.)
Exactly what was erroneous about the information copied straight off the spb web site
Six-Principle Baptists hold to:
- One God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him;
- One Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him;
- The Holy Spirit as our Comforter and Guide;
- The Bible as the supreme written authority in matters of faith and practice;
- Liberty of Conscience in matters of interpretation and worship.
- The Six Principles of Hebrews 6:1-2 (Repentance, Faith, Baptisms, Laying on of hands, Resurrection, and Judgment) as foundational concepts
Or the link to the General Directors web site, for that matter? I see nothing factually in error here, please explain if I am missing something. I'm quite sure it's accurate. --LanceHaverkamp 02:23, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
- Lance, I'm not the one who made the change, so I don't know what would have been erroneous, except that I did notice this. When you added the information, you posted, "The original six principles from Hebrews 6:1-2 were changed to:" This may be wherein the objection lies, since the web site doesn't use the term "changed to". - Rlvaughn 03:36, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
- Mr.Haverkamp, I think you know full well that the objection comes from your statement that we changed the six principles of Hebrews 6:1-2. We did nothing of the kind. The web site indicates the core beliefs of the SPB, not that any changes were made to the core values. After having spoken with Reverend Allen, I find that you wanted to join the SPB ministers group but wound up not doing so due to some disagreements. Some advice - If you want to join something you do not insult and criticize it. You become part of it and work from the inside to better it. That is, if such can be done. In this case you could not, and would not have, changed the SPB foundational beliefs which are straight out of Holy Scripture.
-
- Hi,
- I can easily see that it would appear so...I did question the SPB discussion list about a few items that appeared to look either confusing or questionable on the SPB tripod site, I got very little response & found further inquires on the subject blocked from the discussion list. Getting no real answers to some very basic apparent discrepancies, I went ahead & changed the listing here to reflect the facts as best as they are represented on the group's tripod site:
- I cannot find any documentation about the original denomination that makes any reference to the first five principles (or beliefs, or whatever you want to call those bulleted items on the SPB tripod site). If you can find some, great! Since they appear to be newly added, that's exactly what I said---I did not "insult and criticize". It sounds as though you may be in contact with the new group's webmaster; if the principles have not changed, I would recommend they clarify that better on the group's home page; since the old denomination didn't list those first five and the new group does--what other possible conclusion is there? As for my interest in the group...you're right I was interested; but when my questions were answered first by silence, then by censorship, I had absolutely no further interest in joining SPB! --LanceHaverkamp 23:40, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
- P.S. please sign your posts, it's wiki policy.
[edit] Oldest Baptist association
Chaplain Burnette, welcome to Wikipedia. It is good to see that someone from the 6-Principle group has taken an interest in this article.
I think we need to work on and come up with a workable fix in place of the opening "The Six-Principle Baptists are the oldest Baptist association in the Americas." It is correct to point out that the Rhode Island Yearly Meeting (later General Conference) was formed in 1670, making it the first Baptist association in America. This point is often missed because they didn't used the terminology "association". But I think after we leave there and go to the "Six-Principle Baptists are the oldest Baptist association" we get into a problem. [1] Oldest Baptist association implies more than first -- that it was first and still exists. [2] The Rhode Island General Conference went out of existence. [3] Presently, the oldest Baptist association in the Americas appears to be the Philadelphia Baptist Association, which was organized in 1707 and has had a continuous existence since that time. [4] The revived Six-Principle body came into existence after the last two existing Six-Principle Baptist churches ceased to be Six-Principle Baptist. This existence must be counted from the early 21st century rather than 1670.
There is nothing wrong with an attempt to restore the denomination of the Six-Principle Baptists. But since the historical continuity was broken, it is incorrect to present the new body of Six-Principle Baptists as existing historically all the way to the mid 1600s. - Rlvaughn 02:26, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Mr. Vaughn, if you will read the page as it is currently presented you will find the following statements:
"A recent movement (circa 2001) was begun to revive this historic denominational name. The original ministers in the new Six Principle Baptist Church were transfers from other Baptist groups, the independent Christian church/churches of Christ, and the Methodist church."
"No direct connection exists between the original Six-Principle Baptist denomination and this new group."
I think this makes the historical disconnect between the two groups quite readily apparent. However, I have changed the opening to read "The Six-Principle Baptists were the first Baptist association in the Americas".
I thank you for the warm welcome and the constructive criticism. It shall be a pleasure knowing you and talking together.
Chaplain Burnette
