Talk:GemStone IV

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the GemStone IV article.

[edit] Significance

I fear that a reader unfamiliar with this MUD may not walk away from reading this article understanding how this MUD can be differentiated from other MUDS. I have played this MUD quite some time ago, so I very possibly am biased.

-Long runnning game, contiguously : the article mentions that GS is one of the longest-running games around. I think a key element here is that more importantly, it's as well one of the longest running *contiguous* games. By this I mean that a new player could concievably bump into another player's character who the player has been playing for a decade. This element is a distinctive note, as far as I can tell, and is an impressive thing to consider when thinking about multiplayer games with a persistent world.

-Game world size / amount of content : due to the above, the game world has grown endlessly over the years both of a natural pace and as well to give these players who have been playing some characters for very long periods new content to play. So, again, this isnt a World of Warcraft scenario where you hit lvl 60, so to speak, and do something else. Here, the game world has grown constantly to accomodate very very high level people who have played for a long time. Maybe another way to put it is that you could play this game for 20 hours a week, and probably not run out of content for 7-10 years. This again is a fairly distinctive element, due to the longevity of the game.

-Player culture : this may in fact not be terribly distinctive to GS (I dont really know), but the fact that it is a 100 percent player-vs-player game, combined with the fact that I personally had never actually seen a player do so to another player, is quite intriguing. Simply, this game's player culture is quite strong as I percieve it - to such an extent that anyone can attack anyone at any time, and yet it does not even slightly turn into the choas one might expect. Im sure this as much comes from the games longevity, but whatever the cause, it is a fairly impressive element to the game. Dxco 01:06, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree with you.
Uptime - Short of a reboot every once in awhile, the game has been running continuously as you said.
Amount of Content - An old figure was that it would take about 500 hours of playing to reach level 20 (which is when you get your lord/lady title). That's because of the stepped experience requirements for levels (10k for 0 to 5, 20k for 6 to 10, 30k for 11 to 15, 40k for 16 to 20). After that, it was a steady 50k per level. If you're playing to gain experience only you can gain a little over 1k an hour. That's due to the necessity of resting between hunts to absorb experience, which might be unique in Simutronics games. Last I knew, there was a level cap put into place at 100. This caused a decent stir, as some empaths (healers) were a bit over (around 160 for the highest).
Player culture - Yeah, the enforcement was from fellow players and NPC police characters in towns and their immediate surroundings.
Another interesting aspect of the game was that you could gain levels without killing anything at all (empaths and clerics once they attain the ability to raise the dead).
Maybe we can see what we can do?
As long as you can do so while maintaining POV and being factual and informative, sure. RGTraynor 07:13, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
I'm unsure why that comment was necessary.
I'm unsure why it would be needful of debate. You do not sound like a current or recent player -- the changes you reference as "last you knew" are two and a half years old now, so I'm sure you can appreciate the need for factual accuracy. RGTraynor 16:32, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
I terminated my account last month. I'm aware of the paladin class, having titled one. I played a bard until almost title after the paladin. That's after having a legend cleric. I personally collected data on and documented many gameplay mechanics - especially mathematical formulae. I can appreciate the need for factual accuracy. I do not appreciate being told to maintain an NPOV stance or to be factual or informative - that is implied when adding or editing wikipedia. I am familiar with wikipedia policy. I may "not sound like a current or recent player" and the tone of your response does not read as very pleasant. But that does not MEAN that is the case (in either). (Unsigned comment posted by 65.78.8.9 12:39, January 23, 2006 )

[edit] Expansion of article

I've added significantly to the article, and though I'm no expert at Gemstone, I played it for many years off and on. I hope it incorporates some of the concerns you guys show above, particularly the uniqueness of the gaming culture and how it differs from later MMORPGs. 71.202.122.184Jordan Bowen

Looks good; the only thing I changed was an inaccuracy about CoL. RGTraynor 17:59, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
You *do* have to flush yourself down the bathhouse toilet to get into CoL. You pull the chain three times and fall through a tunnel. I thought it was an interesting detail. JordanBowen 23:26, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
You did have to do that. The original CoL HQ was destroyed, and satellite HQs created in other cities, over three years ago now. RGTraynor 23:39, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
No kidding! That's great, thanks.JordanBowen 03:41, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Heh, and revealing that info would actually be a policy (Simu) violation if you still had an account. Though of course the secret has been out for a while. If anyone needs some help otherwise with this page let me know. I guess some of my characters are among those 10+ year veterans.--Caranorn 22:26, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Well ... revealing that info in-game would be, and it's liable to deletion on the Simu boards. Happily, Wikipedia's remit isn't protecting Simu's game secrets ... RGTraynor 07:07, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clean-up

Cleaned up the sections and removed extraneous/redundant detail.

If there's a need to expand the article to include its "Inspiration," etc., as the previous editor indicated, please make the request in Talk rather than leave a blank section with an "Expand" indicator.

The article needs pictures and more links, I think, more than it needs extra length, although someone does need to write about the recent changes in the last few years to the game itself, which are significant, and of which I'm ignorant.JordanBowen
I think it could be wise to maintain the philosophy of keeping the article in the present tense. That is, avoiding starting with a description of the game, and then endlessly detailing changes over time. The ideal article would always reflect the state of the game, and separately, if deemed necessary, discuss the significant evolutions the game has undergone.Dxco 04:23, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Mmm ... GSIV remains a text-based game, so I'm unsure where any pictures would come, unless Simu's willing to allow its logos and/or artwork to appear. RGTraynor 18:33, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
About the only pictures that'd make sense would be screenshots of the front-ends over time (like Railien's already existing shot). But there ain't all that much use for that except to actually document what the game looks like (text scroll). That in turn would require actually performing some useful action sequences. But then again, this would only be interesting for those who've never played a text based game.--Caranorn 21:50, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
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