Talk:Gelato

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"Gelateria" would be better than "parlours" 64.229.156.84 17:12, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

"Parlours" is normal in English. — Chameleon 23:57, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Gelato & Ice cream 2 A case of mistaken identity 3 Flavours 4 Recipe 5 Notable gelaterias??

[edit] Gelato & Ice cream

The article claims that many people have the misconception gelato contains gelatin, but a search on Google for recipes will return an endless supply of gelato recipes using gelatin. This page [[1]] in particular claims that most gelato contains gelatin. In addition the Merriam Webster website lists the etymology of the word "gelatin" as being from both the french "gelatine" and the italian "gelato". eos4life 21:45, sep 27, 2006

maybe I'm just ignorant; I am Italian and I knew that "ice cream" was just the English name for "Gelato", so "gelato" and "ice cream" are the same thing, just called in two different languages. I agree that the Italian ice cream is better than any other one I tried abroad, but I didn't know it was just something different... Does anybody have any reference for it?? If it is, I wonder how to say "gelato" in English and "Ice cream" in Italian!! Alessio Damato 19:34, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

You are right. Gelato is simply Italian for ice-cream. When I see it, I say "gelato" in Italian and "ice-cream" in English. However, Americans think they are clever when they use foreign words, and they have decided that "gelato" (or "gelado" as they pronounce it) is some special thing similar to ice-cream but with less cream. For the rest of us it's just "a creamy brand of ice-cream" (una marca di gelato abbastanza cremoso) or "a not so creamy brand of ice-cream" (una marca di gelato poco cremoso).

Perhaps you are right about the meaning of the words "gelato" and "ice cream" as used in Italy. But I can attest that there is a difference between the frozen dairy dessert widely sold throughout America and universally referred to as "ice cream" by Americans and the frozen dairy dessert I was offered in numerous gelaterias throughout Rome these past few days (I am an American currently on vacation in Italy). Perhaps it is merely a difference in the amount of cream or fat or air, but the resulting difference in texture is so great that I would absolutely consider them to be two different desserts. The kind found everywhere in Rome (at least everywhere in the tourist areas) is not at all common in America; most Americans would be completely unfamiliar with it and would not recognize it as "ice cream". Having no other word for it, Americans refer to it using the same word the locals do: "gelato". -- Anonymous User, 10 Nov 2006

Gelato Artigianale vis-à-vis Industrial Ice Cream

Having been in the Gelato making and distribution business for the last nine years here in the Philippines, under the brand Gelato Eliseo, my biggest challenge has been to communicate the difference between the authentic Gelato, a.k.a. Gelato Artigianale and Industrial Ice Creams.

While Ice Cream and even the word gelato can be used interchangeably as generic terms referring to the whole gamut of frozen sweet things, including the DIY ice creams, street ice cream, popsicles, soft serves, etc……

Gelato when made according to the “authentic and traditional” way is best referred to as Gelato Artigianale (homemade, artisan style or non-industrial type ice cream).

In simplest terms Gelato Artigianale is a natural frozen dairy product made with fresh natural ingredients, primarily fresh milk (up to 72%) and made in small batches of up to 20 liters at a time. Gelato typically contains an air content of 20-25%. Traditionally, Gelato was made according to recipies and procedures which were highly prized and guarded family secrets, handed on from one generation to the next. Passion was, and still is their ultimate “secret” ingredient.

Industrial Ice Creams on the other hand are usually made in large quantities of up to a few tons at a time. Depending on the segment of the market being targeted it can contain more or less of artificial ingredients and coloring. But typically the air content is circa 50%. Due to the large volume production in big factories, the storage and transfer (a.ka.Cold Chain) of Industrial Ice Creams become very crucial and a major cost component of the final product.

This difference in air content between Gelato Artigianale and Industrial Ice Cream(technically known as overrun, but computed and numerically express in a different manner) results in a difference of weight for the same volume, whether expressed in liters or gallon. 1 gallon of Industrial Ice Cream (50% air)weighs 2 kg, but 1 gallon of Gelato Artigianale (20% air)weighs 2.7 kg.

Aside from the difference in weight for the same volume of products, authentic Gelato Artigianale is differentiated through the following:

• Freshly made (minimized need for Cold chain) • Creaminess and Velvety smoothness • Lustre • Slower meltdown • Rich distinct flavors • Wide selection of flavors (including exotic,very unique, even strange) • Lingering flavor after taste (without strange chemical like notes) • Healthy and Nutritious food (“Un Alimento Sano e Naturale”) - ideal to substitute a light meal

Joel Lee, Gelato Eliseo JME Food Products Corporation Quezon City, Philippines gelatoeliseo@gmail.com

Here in Australia, it's even worse. They say "geladi", presumably because Italian ice-cream parlours have "GELATI" ("ICE-CREAMS") written out front, so they have decided that it is a special word for the product inside.

You'll see the same tendency in the word "prosciutto". People will actually say "it's not ham; it's pro-shoo-do", which is bemusing to Italian-speakers. What they mean by "pro-shoo-do" is sometimes "Italian ham", sometimes "dry-cured ham". It's beyond me why they can't just call a spade a spade.

A final note: my girlfriend once went to Italy and ordered a "lattay", as she pretentiously would in Australia. She got her comeuppance however, when they gave her the glass of milk (latte) that she ordered, rather than the milky coffee (caffellatte) that she wanted! — Chameleon 23:57, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

now it is very clear, thanx. But now I think we should talk about this in the article's page. I'll try to modify it a little bit when I have some time. Alessio Damato 14:24, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm afraid that people who speak like this are very passionate about defending it. If you edit the article they are likely to jump on you with the "original research" rule. — Chameleon 13:52, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

This phenomenon is very common: gladius means sword in Latin, but is used in English to mean a type of Ancient Roman sword. Menorah means lamp in Hebrew, but is used in English to mean any of several types of branched candelabras / oil lamps used in Jewish rituals. I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to come up with dozens of similar examples. I don't think it's necessarily a Bad Thing, so long as people don't assume that the usage is the same in the language of origin. --Iustinus 01:23, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Do we really call it that? I would call it a shortsword, or a Roman shortsword if I had to be specific. But anyway, yes, at a certain point, misused foreign words become part of the language and we all have to accept it. For example, the words "skirt" and "shirt" both come from the Anglo-Saxon scirt; I don't complain that the pronunciation diverged under Norse influence, followed by the meaning. However, the first few people who misuse a word rightly deserve to be laughed at, not just for amusing travellers' errors such as the one made by my fiancée, but also for thinking they have grasped some delicate nuance in the English language when they distinguish between two things that are actually the same, or for thinking they are cosmopolitan and knowledgeable.

When the French eschew their perfectly good term le joueur de rugby ("rugby player"), for the pseudo-English term le rugbyman, they mutilate both the English and French languages at the same time. When the Italians (I heard this one in Milan) speak of i spanish wine bar, they think they are cosmopolitan, but they actually insulting the English, Spanish and Italian languages all at the same time (by not just calling a spade a spade and speaking plain Italian (le enoteche spagnole) or using the appropriate foreign language (las bodegas españolas), and instead degrading English to the status of an all-purpose foreign-sounding jargon suitable for describing all things un-Italian).

Other stuff that I find stupid includes: people who think that "no problemo" is actually Spanish. People who think sushi means raw fish. People who ask me how to say "hi" in Italian and then tell me "no, you're wrong; ciao means 'bye'". People who make Bruce Lee-style shrieks (and perhaps throw in a racist joke) when I say I'm studying Chinese.

Alessandro, devo dire che odio il modo in cui gli italiani utilizzano certe parole... perché bisogna dire "aprire un account"? La parola vuol dire semplicemente "conto". Siamo in grado di capire che c'è il conto in banca ed il conto di posta elettronica. Utilizziamo la stessa parola in inglese. I francesi e gli spagnoli hanno deciso di adoperare le parole le compte e la cuenta, e capiscono che queste parole sono perfette per parlare dei due concetti leggermente diversi. Perché pensano gli italiani che bisogni dire account quando si tratta di Internet? Poi, il mouse si chiama così perché è come un topo. Chiamarlo "il topo" farebbe ridere? Ma anche noi in inglese ci fa ridere! Ed in altre lingue si dice la souris oppure el ratón senza problemi. Perché sarebbe troppo assurdo solo in italiano? Vabbè. Mi sono già lamentato tantissimo! Penso che tutti abbiano capito che mi piace che si dica pane al pane! — Chameleon 13:52, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] A case of mistaken identity

Another misnomer I have recently encountered, one very relevant to gelato is this: in certain parts of the USA, most notably on the East Coast (particularly in New Jersey), the word 'gelati' is being used to describe a parfait (layered dessert) containing alternating layers Italian water ice and soft-serve, ice cream or custard. Strictly speaking, 'gelati' is the plural of 'gelato' and the aforementioned dessert bears no resemblance to true gelato.

Water Ice? What's That?

Noteworthy, is the fact that "Italian Ice", or "Water Ice", as the East Coast of the US knows, does not exist anywhere in Italy or Europe. Granita, a frozen mix of fruit puree, sugar and water, would be the closest thing to what Americans call "Italian Ice". Maybe someone would consider moving the quoted "misnomer" above to the Gelato article, as a note. It is confusing to many east-coasters who are experiencing Authentic Gelato for the first time.

[edit] Flavours

I remember Gelatarias having a number of unique flavours. This include sorbets and durian. Though that is served in Singapore. Could the article be expanded like the origins of gelato and things about gelato. --Terence Ong ^Talk 15:35, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recipe

The tone of the recipe section seems a bit too "demanding", for lack of a better word. The writer claims that basically, his/her way is the ultimate, one-and-only way. This recipe may yeild gelato thats preferable to the author, but can we say that this is the only way to make gelato? I think it just needs to be re-worded to be more lenient. Something like perhaps, "The tradition/popular/usual/etc way to prepare gelato is...." I believe there is somewhat of a gray area in distincting certain foods, and it would be inappropriate to give gelato such a definition. Teimu.tm 22:13, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notable gelaterias??

how can we decide whether a gelateria can be considered "notable" or not?? the list is increasing day after day, and I don't think all of them are so important to merit a space in an encyclopedia... I live in Rome and I agree about all the Roman gelaterias in the list, but I think we have to agree about a principle that can be verified. Moreover: for such an Italian product there are 7 Italian gelaterias but 32 only in the USA!! that looks quite strange... Alessio Damato 10:02, 1 April 2006 (UTC)