Talk:Gay stereotyping
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This is a rather shitty article, if I may be so bold. I think we need to heavily revise it. 129.59.99.211 04:33, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Tagged.
I have tagged this article because it does not cite sources, seems incredibly POV and a few points made seem to be wholly subjective to interpretation. ExRat 18:07, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Merits of this article
I have grave reservations about the purpose served by the article. There are no articles of Wikipedia about:
- black stereotyping
- jewish stereotyping
- stereotypes of women etc.
Why is it that a specific article is needed to cover gay stereotyping? Is there any good reason why this article should not be deleted or merged into a section at the Homophobia article? - WJBscribe (WJB talk) 19:04, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
- It might be better merged into stereotype - gay stereotyping is not necessarily homophobic. Barnabypage 21:17, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
- Really? Would people say black stereotyping isn't necessarily racist? - WJBscribe (WJB talk) 23:23, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
- Would you say that a gay man who dressing, talks, and acts in a stereotypical manner is a homophobe? Koweja 00:19, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
- No. That's a basic element of personal freedom. Would I think that someone who labels someone as gay because they dress, talk and acts in a manner associated to a gay stereotype is a homophobe? Probably yes. - WJBscribe (WJB talk) 00:24, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
- What if they do it because they feel that's what they need to do to "be gay". People's self image can be influenced by the stereotypes of others to the point where they adopt them. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone that acts in the stereotypical manner. Another example of stereotyping and bigotry/phobia not being the same thing: take white people who act like stereotypical black gangsters. Obviously they believe the stereotype, but they certainly don't hate or fear blacks. Granted, this is probably a bad example since you're not an American, but that's all I've got. Koweja 00:36, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
- OK- I'm starting to see where you coming from. I would have thought all one had to do to be gay was be attracted to people of the same gender, but I do see your point. To me it seems like giving in to the prejudice, but I may be taking too narrow a view and be guilty of my own POV bias. In any event, since you pointed me in the direction of Stereotypes of Africans/Blacks and seeing that it is unlikely to get a concensus to delete in its AfD, I think I've already lost this argument. The least one can do is work on this article- distinguish between stereotyping as hostile/prejudice labeling and what role it may have in self-identity, for one thing. It's going to be a big project to get this article up to standard. - WJBscribe (WJB talk) 00:46, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
- Oh, "a lot of work" doesn't even begin to describe what it'll take to make this a good article, but I can see it happening. I've nominated this to be a LGBT Project collaboration, there is a chance. Koweja 00:57, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
- Okay - does anyone know of any serious academic work on this topic as a starting point? Amazon only comes up with one result for "gay stereotype" and that's "Gender Nonconformity, Race, and Sexuality: Charting the Connections", which doesn't look quite the right thing - there are lots of general works on gay history, of course, but can anyone recommend a relevant one? WJBscribe - I agree stereotyping is often homophobic, but stereotypes can also be referred to in jest by non-homophobes, and indeed by gay men themselves. IMHO merging this into homophobia would extend the definition of the latter excessively. Barnabypage 15:02, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
- Oh, "a lot of work" doesn't even begin to describe what it'll take to make this a good article, but I can see it happening. I've nominated this to be a LGBT Project collaboration, there is a chance. Koweja 00:57, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
- OK- I'm starting to see where you coming from. I would have thought all one had to do to be gay was be attracted to people of the same gender, but I do see your point. To me it seems like giving in to the prejudice, but I may be taking too narrow a view and be guilty of my own POV bias. In any event, since you pointed me in the direction of Stereotypes of Africans/Blacks and seeing that it is unlikely to get a concensus to delete in its AfD, I think I've already lost this argument. The least one can do is work on this article- distinguish between stereotyping as hostile/prejudice labeling and what role it may have in self-identity, for one thing. It's going to be a big project to get this article up to standard. - WJBscribe (WJB talk) 00:46, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
- What if they do it because they feel that's what they need to do to "be gay". People's self image can be influenced by the stereotypes of others to the point where they adopt them. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone that acts in the stereotypical manner. Another example of stereotyping and bigotry/phobia not being the same thing: take white people who act like stereotypical black gangsters. Obviously they believe the stereotype, but they certainly don't hate or fear blacks. Granted, this is probably a bad example since you're not an American, but that's all I've got. Koweja 00:36, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
- No. That's a basic element of personal freedom. Would I think that someone who labels someone as gay because they dress, talk and acts in a manner associated to a gay stereotype is a homophobe? Probably yes. - WJBscribe (WJB talk) 00:24, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
- Would you say that a gay man who dressing, talks, and acts in a stereotypical manner is a homophobe? Koweja 00:19, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
- Really? Would people say black stereotyping isn't necessarily racist? - WJBscribe (WJB talk) 23:23, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Name that article
The first thing that needs to be done is to figure out a name of the article. Firstly, I would recomend Stereotypes of ______ rather than _______ stereotyping just because it looks better and is less vague. Secondly, we need to decide on which group that is being stereotyped should this article address. As it stands it can only be about homosexual men, however if we rename it to Stereotypes of homosexuals we can include stereotypes of lesbians. We could expand it even further to include bisexuals, asexuals, pansexuals, and so forth. However, there really doesn't seem to be as much stereotyping of these groups homosexuals, so I would be okay with limiting the focus to homosexuals.
Summary: we should rename the article to Stereotypes of homosexuals. Koweja 02:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
