Talk:Gas metal arc welding

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Gas metal arc welding is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do.

Gas metal arc welding appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on September 4, 2005.

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[edit] To-do

To get this article featured, at least the following should be done:

• Add history section
• Get good images
• Add equipment section – torch, power supply, etc.
• Add sections on process variations: Globular, short-circuiting, spray, pulsed spray. This should include differences like shielding gas used, type/thickness of metals that can be welded, positions, weld appearance, pros/cons, travel speed, learning curve, etc.
• Add quality section (possibly incorporate into individual process variation pages)
• Include info on joint design somewhere (maybe quality section)
• Include info on safety and common applications (maybe in an "Applications" section?)

Please, add to this list if you think something is missing! Spangineer ∞ 18:46, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Also

• Differences with different metals.
• General differences (pros/cons) with tig/oxy-acetylene/etc.
• AC/DC variations perhaps.
• Notes on usages in industries (eg auto)

I'll make a start on the history bit. I can take a nice pic of my little 150 Amp welder if that's any use? Only slight issue might be it's an unusual make (Ferm/Sealey).

History link: http://www.solarnavigator.net/welding.htm

Mat-C 02:04, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

Remember, we just want the history of GMAW, not welding in general. There's alot of general history at the main welding article, which was based on printed sources, not the internet. We can include the stuff that relates to arc welding, but the focus should be on GMAW developments. Incidentally, the website you linked to appears to be a direct quote out of a welding textbook I have (Modern Welding Technology by Cary and Helzer) so if you use the info off the website, I'll reference it with the book.

The picture would be great; I doubt the model would matter. User:TTLightningRod already offered to get some good images for this page, but we'll probably need more, and extra options never hurt. AC/DC stuff is a good idea; though I think AC is rarely used. Thanks for the suggestions!

Regarding the safety section, you might find it helpful to take a look at the safety section of the welding article – we probably want to use prose, not lists, and we'll also need to talk about the differences in safety between GMAW and other welding processes. I think I read that GMAW is safer than SMAW, for example.

Thanks for showing interest! I wrote the welding article by myself, and while it was fun, it would have been better to have help. It would be awesome if the next featured welding article could be done with teamwork :) Spangineer ∞ 15:18, May 20, 2005 (UTC)

The welding page looks very good, I'll have a scan through it. I can't really write much on the history without more info (and decent sources hard to come by). Will do other bits as we go along, including the safety rewording. Cheers, Mat-C 03:09, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] before placing in article page

I thought we might change the text within the image to simple numbered items, then we can simply have an editable list under the description text. Yes? (TTLightningRod)

Yep, I agree – numbered items in the image would be best, because then it's possible to easily change the text and it can also be translated without any trouble. These are great images – you definitely know what you're doing with CAD. Incidentally, what software do you use?

Aside from converting the text to numbers, I'm only concerned about a couple things, and hopefully both can be resolved easily. The first is that the head of the gun comes out of a cube shaped thing... based on the welding guns I've seen, that's not what they look like, so if it's possible, it would be cool if the cylindrical part could be extruded farther back so that only it is showing. I'm also not sure what I think about the perspective of the second image... part of me says it's fine as is (once the cube thing at the bottom is removed), but I'm not sure I'm a fan of having the tip of the gun appear farther away than the handle of the gun. I'm not sure how easy this stuff is to change, so give me feedback on my comments before changing stuff so that you don't have to do extra work. Again, these images great; thanks for putting the time into making them! --Spangineer ∞ 23:17, May 27, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Collaborative WikiCAD... now that would be cool

What's the matter... you don't like my cubist representation of a nice finger-formed hand-held trigger-actuated MIG torch grip, with gold-inset name-brand logo? What's wrong with you?  : ) Ya, I'll do something a little better with that... I just tossed this off this afternoon, and didn't want to put time into other details before we could start talking about it. Which now we have.

So numbers are the way to go. I'll leave you to fill in their technical description, and still others can translate easier too. I'll also do a bit more work on the actual cut away (you can see that in the talk:Welding page. Changing things around is quite easy, particularly views, perspective, angle, rendering and color.. that's why CAD is so cool. Draw it once in 3D, the rest is kids play. Didn't like my "cubes"... you silly boy.

One other thing.... I would expect other people could pick up on this method of; draft, feedback, change, repost... In this case it's not so important to me, but I don't want to keep posting "latest revisions" without being able to completely delete old versions of a draft that have been superseded. (That's an important dynamic when moving any kind of draft and engineering paperwork around, as you know) The best way to do it would be if I could simply "replace" an image with it's same simple name every time. I personally don't care if the older one is dumped all together, but if the wiki commons system could date stamp, and reshuffle the image history backwards, that would be good for future generations in perpetuity. Otherwise, any person working on an image, especially any future collaborative CAD work, (collaborative DXF's or DWG's in a wiki environment would be super cool) any person working on an image and replacing an older image would have to rename it every time. I do suppose I could add a date/time stamp, but that really isn't the best solution if in the future, many people are working on the same thing simultaneously, and in different time zones.

Basically... What will happen with a wiki-commons filling up with half-baked or old, technical images?

Yeah, sorry to be so picky about that handle :). As for the images, yes, you can just replace the images by uploading a new one with the same name, which dumps the old one. I think that you should just reupload the files over top of the last one, and then if you get one that is a major change, don't get rid of the old version, just name the new file something else. If lots of different people are changing and renaming the image consistently, you can just send it through some sort of delete process, which I think is pretty easy. Does that answer your question?

As for collaborative CAD stuff, though not on a wiki, I know of one CAD package called Alibre that makes that possible. We used it in my engineering design class, and while it's definitely limited in its capabilities (it didn't take me long to find something it couldn't do with its extrusion tools; namely a phillips head screwdriver), it does allow for two people to be looking at the same CAD drawing at the same time and working on it together. It's pretty cool.

Also, a minor note – it would be helpful if you signed and dated your talk page posts with ~~~~, since it helps other users keep track of the conversation and all that good stuff. Just a tip. --Spangineer ∞ 00:48, May 28, 2005 (UTC)

1) from MIG torch handle with finger trigger. 2) Nozzle, an ectrically isolated cup to "focus" shield gas and protect wire Contact Tip. 3) output face of the nozzle. Filler wire is "pushed" into the hot work piece while enveloped by the shielding gas. 4) Molded dielectric between outer cup and threaded metal nut insert, shown in yellow. 5) Diffuser nut for shield gas output. 6) Contact Tip, with a guide orifice "sized" to the filler wire.

Please let me know what you think. If there are other ways the illistration could be viewed, modified, or otherwise improved... please let me know. TTLightningRod 12:32, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It's looking great to me. Once we get this article to peer review, we'll get some more feedback from other users (hopefully), but for now, I think we're in great shape. You may want to specify on the image page that you're releasing these under GDFL or whatever, so that there aren't any concerns later about where these images came from. I'm thinking that putting the two torch end images near each other (perhaps one on top of the other) would be a great visual. I'll work on the caption and on the image placement, and I'll let you know if I see anything that I think needs to be changed. And please, feel free to contribute to this article! You seem to know pretty much about this welding thing, and it would be great to get a little bit of writing collabaration going :). But if you can't, I understand – in any case, your contribution of these images is a fantastic addition. --Spangineer ∞ 16:50, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)

I added a comment to the image page about my offer under GDFL. Is that the way to do it? Thanks for the compliment about my "know pretty much about this welding thing" smoke and mirrors. However, I'm still a bit pensive about what I could really add to the text itself. I think you're doing a great job although I can sympathize with your request for more collaboration. Don't worry, if you say something that makes me want to puke, I'll let you know. TTLightningRod 17:38, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] that dosen't make sense...

"it can not be used outdoors or in other areas of air volatility." By their very nature, both stick and MIG CAN be used outdoors because they both use some form of flux and/or inert shielding gas because of ambient volatiles everywhere we want oxygen to breath. It would be more correct to even say they work BEST outdoors, if only for the better safety of the operator. TTLightningRod 19:14, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Maybe something like this.. "Stick welding is one of the best solutions to use in conditions of strong and gusty winds, whereas MIG performs better in calmer air. Because of the very low flow rates required by the inert gas often used in TIG welding, conditions of very calm ambent air are best, (such as indoors). TTLightningRod 19:34, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

But if the air is moving, the shielding gas being pumped out by the welding gun isn't going to effectively keep the oxygen out, right? Wouldn't the argon get blown away, allowing atmospheric gases into the weld area? I've heard that outdoors welding is much more commonly done with stick and flux-cored welding. --Spangineer (háblame) 19:43, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)

Quite right. Your original sentence was really just kind of confusing to me at first. I see what you're saying.... let me think of it a bit more. I'm trying to find a way to make it clearer why MIG does work "outdoors", but windy conditions can piss off the operator. But even for TIG, this CAN be overcome by using more shield gas (and thus consuming more $). MIG fits in the middle between "Stick" and TIG. From the most adverse conditions ("stick" weld on the open deck of ocean going vessel), to the most idyllic (TIG welds best in a controlled environment like an indoor laboratory workbench within a vacuum vessel). TTLightningRod 19:54, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pics

Can I just say... fantastic work on those cutaway diagrams, with detail right down to the threads on the tip. Mat-C 28 June 2005 15:13 (UTC) {{

[edit] Wow, *great* choice for a featured article

It's not like this exact topic was already featured just a short while ago as a featured picture or anything. No repetition here, nosiree. No crowding out of selected articles that haven't been featured yet either! I'm so glad Wikipedia features a diversity of articles on the front page rather than recycling the same old ones. MrVoluntarist 00:10, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Was that sarcasm? Because welding was a featured article just a short time ago.--kenb215 01:00, September 4, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it was sarcasm. I'm glad you caught on. Gas metal arc welding was a featured picture not long ago. How pathetic. MrVoluntarist 02:24, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Shut up. On another note, I think it's a great example of citing sources. --Cyberman 21:51, September 4, 2005 (UTC)

Don't tell me to shut up. And this isn't a great example of citing sources; it's a great example of citing the same three or four sources. Anarcho-capitalism, which by the way sacrificed a spot on the front page so that this article could be shown twice, is a great example of citing sources. MrVoluntarist 23:57, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Just to clarify, the decision to put a featured picture on the main page and a featured article on the main page are entirely separate processes. Perhaps there should be more coordination, but the fact that the article appeared shortly after the picture was a fluke. As for Anarcho-capitalism, just be patient -- I'm sure it will appear on the front page before long. GMAW reached featured status nearly a month before Anarcho-capitalism did, which explains why it appeared on the front page first. --Spangineer (háblame) 01:28, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

Could be a loooooooong time if every other article gets to be featured twice... MrVoluntarist 17:14, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Maybe you could threaten to hold your breath until your page gets the go ahead? Slinky puppet 02:59, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

No personal attacks MrVoluntarist 17:14, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Notes

The note structure is easy to navigate. Good formatting. hydnjo talk 02:15, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Voltage

At what voltage is MIG welding usually done? ―BenFrantzDale 03:50, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Seems to be around 15-30 volts, depending on the application. It's normally set by the operator. I'll try to find a more explicit reference and add that to the power supply section. --Spangineer (háblame) 04:05, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is it a wrong traveling direction?

It is basic to advance turning the nozzle to the traveling direction and spraying the shielding gas from the nozzle. Therefore, I think that the traveling direction and the direction where a semiautomatic welding of this figure is formed the bead are wrong of it.

Refer toWelding(Japanese version Wikpedia) for details. 121.200.137.77 16:09, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

From the article: "The travel angle or lead angle is the angle of the torch with respect to the direction of travel, and it should generally remain approximately vertical. However, the desirable angle changes somewhat depending on the type of shielding gas used—with pure inert gases, the bottom of the torch is out often slightly in front of the upper section, while the opposite is true when the welding atmosphere is carbon dioxide." The diagram is a modified version of an image appearing in a respected welding text; there's no problem. --Spangineer^es (háblame) 16:17, 13 October 2006 (UTC)