Talk:Gary Null
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This article was nominated for deletion on 27 Sept 2006. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
Since Gary Null is a person a date of birth would be a requirement, as well as revealing what colleges he attended.
I dispute the neutrality of this article. It reads like promotional literature, not like a biography. There is legitimate dispute as to how Null got his PhD, etc. on www.quackwatch.com. None of this is in here. I would recommend this article be heavily edited or deleted.
This is not a real article but a promotional blurb. Gary Null has some good things to say, but he is not the even handed promoter of health he clames to be. I think he is well meaning, but some of what he says is patently untrue. For example, his AIDS denial work is right up there with holocaust denying. Basically, Gary is a rival to the healthcare industry. He doesn't want you to buy pharmaceuticals but to buy Gary Null products from his website. His academic credentials are laughable.
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[edit] Reverted to earlier version due to possible copyvio
Hi, I reverted this page to an earlier version as the material introduced at this point appears to violate the copyright at http://garynull.com/aboutgarynull.html. Please see WP:copyvio. I've tagged the article as requiring cleanup, wikification and referencing. - Politepunk 15:25, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
This article is now more balanced. It is worth noting that it is easy to verify that Gary Null is now 61 years old by checking the internet.
This article is very poor. We have to find out more facts about GN and list them here in the comments section before working them into the text. I am very interested in his biography, but there is no information about it. If you listen to the show on the radio he frequently mentions his key role in virtually every facet of the "health movement". He also mentions doing extensive scientific research and knew people like Linus Pauling intimately. I find him to be less than credible, but I have no idea. His athletic achievments are seemingly trumped up. He is a respectible masters level race walker, but he is no "record holder" that I can verify. He does compete in sanctioned events, but holds no records from recognized governing bodies that I can find. GN is a very interesting person, but we need more facts and less promo. As it stands the article is at about the level of a 7th grade book report. TD
Isn't there someone out there, including Gary himself, who will provide some detailed information about Gary's backround? Where did he grow up? How did he come to New York? What is his actual role in the history of the natural foods movement? He is a tireless self-promoter, but he is very short on facts. He is simply overwhelming as a speaker. He can generate more phonemes per minute than almost anyone I've ever heard, but at times sounds like he is rambling.
- He's discussed this on his WBAI radio show, but it was a long time ago. I used to have it on tape. I posted some of it to Compuserve's health forum, probably about 10 years ago. On the show where he described his education, he said he'd never do it again, which is why I recorded it. I remember him saying that the people grading his term paper were at odds over whether it was passable, despitse Gary having interviewed several "experts." He's also said that he and some other guy were the strongest in their state (or maybe it was city). This was at a time when he didn't eat right, by his definition, so maybe he has some freaky super-strong body by nature. -Barry- 17:59, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Come on guys, this is terrible. this whole article may as well be deleted. I would happily rewrite it myself, but I don't have any facts. People who know facts about Mr. Null should write them here int he comments section so that they can be researched and added to the main page.
[edit] Article Problems
I have added actual sections to the article and removed some of the more outlandish statements, but this is still hardly NPOV. We need to find some unbiased sources on Mr. Null and rewrite this article. --Danaman5 01:56, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
The article has once again reverted to an ad written by someone within the Null organization. I have deleted all of the obvious material that is of questionable independent value.
Quackwatch has something to say about Gary Null http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/null.html It should also be noted that he thought it an honour to accept this award from the CCHR. As noted by Wipedia, "The Citizens Commission on Human Rights (CCHR; also sometimes known as the Citizens Committee on Human Rights) is an advocacy group established in 1969 by the Church of Scientology and Thomas Szasz".
Photograph here -> http://www.freedommag.org/english/vol2704/rights.htm
As quoted on the website; "http://www.freedommag.org/english/vol2704/rights.htm
- Is it OK for the lead to say that he is a nutritionist? Doesn't use of this word require an acceptable level of qualification? Itsmejudith 14:55, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
- Following this I have seen the link that confirms him as a dietician and nutritionist. Itsmejudith 16:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
Possibly the most interesting thing about Mr. Null is the dirth of verifiable information about him. It would make a good New York Times Sunday article to really look at the evidence about this quite powerful and controversial figure. He is really a new-age radio/televangelist for his own religion. He is frequently hilarious on the radio, especially when he gets angry, which is often. But one must admire or at least wonder at, his level of commitment. But, no one really knows anything about him. He drops names right and left. He has said he is responsible for billions of dollars of revenue in the health industry. But what is the real deal?
[edit] Quackwatch paraphrasing removed
Breveity, people!
I cut the opening section down to what it should be.
All the B.S. (he said-she said) I removed belongs on the quackwatch.org site (which is already linked) or the discussion page here. I'm putting it here.
called a [[nutritionist]] and advocate of [[complementary and alternative medicine]] practising in the [[United States of America]]. One of the most interesting thing about Mr. Null is that there is a dirth of verifiable information about him. Many of the facts of his basic [[biography]] are unavailable. Interestingly, this is reflected in the [[poverty]] of [[information]] in this [[Wikipedia]] article. Over many months this entry has morphed from one inadequare form to another. At one point the article will be a copy of his "[[official]]" [[biography]] [http://www.garynull.com/aboutgarynull.asp], at another it will degenerate into a [[pastiche]] of poor [[writing]] and [[criticism]]. A general impression of Mr. Null can be gleaned from listening to his daily [[radio]] show. Like Mr. Null himself- we cannot refer to him as "Dr. Null" because that would be misleading- the show is difficult to categorize. The show frequently consists of Mr. Null holding forth on a variety of topics, from [[health]] and [[fitness]] to [[politics]] to [[world history]]. Much of what Mr.Null says is very interesting, but it is difficult for the unknowing reader to know what is [[wheat]] and what is [[chaff]]. Mr. Null is on record as a [[critic]] of the "[[HIV]] [[doctrine]]", the idea that [[AIDS]] is caused by [[HIV]]. For this Mr. Null has been ridiculed by [[gay community]], as well as [[medical]] [[professionals]]. The [[criticism]] by the [[gay]]/[[AIDS]] activism [[community]] is more telling perhaps than the [[criticism]] by the [[medical]] [[profession]]. One could argue that as a politically [[liberal]] [[critic]] of the medical [[profession]] Mr. Null would be an obvious target for politically and financially biased [[criticism]] by [[mainstream]] [[medicine]]. But the [[gay community]] would be considered [[prima facie]] to be natural [[allies]] of Mr. Null and so their rejection of him should be given a great deal of weight. Afterall, these are people who have everything to gain by finding treatments that work and are politically on roughly the same side as Mr. Null. Mr. Null's rejection of the [[HIV]]/[[AIDS]] connection would be laughable if not so harmful. Yes, he will quote "[[peer reviewed]] studies" that back up his claims, but Mr. Null generally displays a deep [[ignorance]] of the [[methodology]] of real [[science]] where the acid test of [[research]] is a [[rigorous]] attempt to falsify [[hypotheses]], not to confirm them. It is relatively easy to find [[research]] results confirming any number of results that can be refuted by one simple counter-example.
If someone feels so attached to any part of the above, please expand it enough so that it can stand as its own sub-section (look at the other sections as well as other bio's for examples) and submit it to the discussion page (here) first. If there's no objection/or after needed changes, then add the material as a separate subsection.
This article should be able to at least pass minimum standard now.
There is a major problem with your editing and your claim: not one fact that is stated can be verified. Gary Null does not have a PhD in the same sense as say Richard Feynman or Daniel Dennett. It is totally misleading to credit this BS alternative degree from a non-accredited school. --Mccabem 22:08, 30 October 2006 (UTC) I wrote the rather poor section, which you cut, because it stands in for the fact that no one has any real information about Gary Null. I therefore place it back as it was.
It is misleading to call Gary Null a PhD without qualification. The fact that he uses this non-standard degree in the way he does shows that he has disrespect for the people in his audience. Gary Null does not have a PhD from a regionally accredited school.
[edit] His qualifications
Could someone who knows how these things work in the US please explain Null's qualifications clearly in the article? I am confused because I thought in the US there was little or no accrediting of schools and therefore more or less anyone could buy a doctorate and call themselves "Dr". In the UK there are sometimes issues with people who have acquired doctorates in the US then being entitled to use the title in the UK. The cases of Ian Paisley and (with many parallels to Null) Gillian McKeith spring to mind. Itsmejudith 12:02, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
There is no national accreditation in the US. Rather it is done by a small group of "regional" agencies, which are recognized by the states. All of the major US schools, such as Harvard are accredited by one of thses agencies. Thus, if you are on the east coast of the US the same agency would accredit Harvard as would accredit a smaller school in say, Connecticut. A PhD from one of these schools would be basically the same as a PhD from Oxford. Gary Null has a PhD from a non-traditional school and what he needed to do for that degree is radically different from what someone would have to do at Harvard, or at the University of Vermont, or at MIT. In fact, the difference is so profound that it is a kind of fraud for Gary Null to claim to have a PhD. I'm sure that Mr. Null(and I call him that because he does not really have a PhD)would claim to not care to accomodate himself to the "mainstream" but if that is the case why use this traditional title while not actually doing the work required to get it. I personally would be ashamed of myself to go around parading a PhD that is from a program one tiny step above that of a diplomma mill. The difference between Gary's "PhD" and one from an accredited school is that it is possible to get such a degree without taking any math, physics or chemistry.
Gary Null has a phenomenal memmory. But he never studied statistics or chemistry or had his work reviewed by a real PhD supervisor. His "disertation" wouldn't pass muster as a senior honors thesis at a decent school. Gary Null is not a real PhD. And yes, there really is such a thing in the United States.
- Thank you very much for this clear explanation. It would be a good idea if the accreditation status were added to all the articles about universities and colleges, with links to articles about the relevant agencies. From your explanation it seems clear to me that Mr Null should not be described as PhD in this article. Itsmejudith 22:43, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Unsigned comments
Please place proper signatures after your comments! Simply use four tildes (~~~~). Now go back and do it for each comment on this page. For previous comments use three tildes (leaves only your user name), unless you would be so kind as to use the edit history and also write the correct time for each comment. -- Fyslee 22:09, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
- It is helpful to have signatures but when they are missing perhaps we could assume that it is a new user who doesn't know the ropes. Any more experienced user will be pleased to help. Itsmejudith 14:22, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] When can we take disputed tag off?
We aren't edit warring about this article, so can we reach a consensus and take the tag off? One less thing to worry about! Itsmejudith 14:24, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Accreditation of Union Institute
So maybe we are still edit warring. I personally have no very strong pro or anti Null views but just want to see the article NPOV. It seems that the school he attended is an unorthodox one but is currently accredited. The crucial factor though is: was it accredited when Null got his PhD? Anybody know? Itsmejudith 16:55, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
While this school is accredited- it was an error on my part not to make this clearer- it's PhD program is only accredited for either "interdisicplinary studies" or the "PsyD". The accreditation board is explicit that: "The Ph.D. program in Interdisciplinary Studies is limited to the social sciences and humanities research areas." One would have assumed that Mr. Null's PhD is in some sort of science. What credibility would it give him to have a PhD in a humanities interdisiplinary degree? Anyone with any academic backround knows that this is a pure fluff degere. I don't see how anyone can question that Null is trying to pump up his resume with this degree. What does Null claim his PhD is in? For example, Dr. Laura Shlesinger has a PhD in physiology from, I believe, Columbia University. While that doesn't give her much credibility as a therapist for some, in my mind it gives her tremendous credibility as an intellect. Null's PhD stands as an embarrassment. Thomas
- Thank you again. Reworded slightly and hopefully this text can now stand.Itsmejudith 13:32, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Great job! I think this now stands as an accurate depiction of all that is known about Null.Thomas
- Thanks. Let's leave it a week and then remove the POV tag. Itsmejudith 19:37, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
