Talk:Gary Miller (Abdul-Ahad Omar)

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This page is horribly POV. It assumes that Islam is the true religion, that the Quran is true and trustworthy, and that readers who are using WP are doing so with an eye to finding the true religion. It would seem to need a complete rewrite. Benami 04:03, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 POV?? 2 Mr Benami 3 Still POV 4 References 5 Islamic convert

[edit] POV??

Mr Benami, this page assumes nothing. this page simple discribe how a former Christian missionrary came to know Islam. Gary Miller is a eminent converts to islam and this page linked in list of converts to Islam page.

Mr. or Ms. Anonymous Editor, I gave specific examples of the POV I found, and you did not address them. The sort of writing that is appropriate for publishers' blurbs and tribute pages is not necessarily appropriate for an encyclopeida.Benami 12:02, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mr Benami

Could you plz not stick you jewish nose in the Islamic Convert section. why dont you go and play in the jewish section of wikipedia.

Wait, let me think about that. Ummm, no. WP:OWN, WP:NPA Benami 10:30, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Still POV

No, sticking random quotation marks into the article do not make it NPOV. I would prefer not to have to edit it or rewrite it myself, but I will if someone else does not take this seriously. It really should not take moving heaven and earth to get this fluff piece edited into an encyclopedia article. Benami 21:09, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

The main message currently seems to be "my religion beats your religion", not the person. Should be about him, and the article author's own religious convictions should not shine through. What is this person's notability in the first place? A random person who got religion? Amazon.com lists one 20-year-old out-of-print book "Missionary Christianity". db-bio? Weregerbil 17:12, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Not sure he's notable, but at the moment it doesn't read POV. He's just a Christian theologian who became some sort of Muslim writer. I know of a Muslim who now does the Evangelical circuit, and I think he has an article too, so it goes both ways.--T. Anthony 22:21, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Oh my, the older versions were very POV. Good fix on whoever fixed it.--T. Anthony 22:22, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References

I'm having trouble finding any verifiable biographical details online, perhaps someone could help me. Some basic biographical questions would include:

• Does he have a PhD in Mathematics as some web sites mention? From what university? in what year?
• Other educational credentials?
• He's evidently written a lot of online articles. Has he written anything that has been published, in either a book or magazine, whether regarding religion, mathematics, or anything else?
• He was evidently a "minister" and "missionary" of Christianity before his conversion to Islam? Was he an ordained minister, and if so by whom? Did he serve with a missionary organization or was he an independent missionary? Which organization? Where did he serve as a missionary, and for how long?
• In what year did he convert to Islam?

Wesley 17:12, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

If he's a former Christian theologian, as the article suggests, what works had he written while a Christian? KHM03 (talk) 17:29, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

He does have a PhD degree in Mathematics but my source of this information is an audio lecture in which the presenter tells about the completion of his degree while introducting him (I'll try to find a proper reference). I think he used to teach at University of Kansas at least at some point in his life (again, I'll try to quote the reference). Also, according to the author of this page http://www.mydeviant.com/miller/ and according to the Gary Miller himself (in the audio lectures), I think he never wrote articles or brochures. The articles that are available online have been written by people who listened to his lectures and wrote them in text form (I've compared at least two "written articles" of Gary Miller and they both differ from the audio in certain words, although the sentences usually mean the same, but I didn't check it through; in many cases the meaning may change, but these articles online don't state that these words weren't exactly written by Miller). 203.81.228.97 23:21, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Islamic convert

I must agree with Benami. Whoever put that last chunk of information has given all of us another example of how utterly bellicose and religiously intolerant Islamic people are to Christianity and the mien of Islam to reconquer the world as the most populous religion. Let's face it: who here even cares if Gary Miller thought there were discrepancies in the Bible? The writer/writers state(s) that Gary Miller thinks there are a plethora of "inconsistencies" in the Bible, yet they fail to corroborate it with a legitimate example. These guys then go on to imply that the Qu'ran is somehow more authentic (and contains more truth) than the Bible (in your fucking dreams):

"He thought that the Qur'an contained the same essence of truth that he had distilled from the Bible, he became a Muslim."

What? Since when was the Qur'an contained more "truth" than the Bible? Check the date? That's right. The last time I checked, Islam was the YOUNGEST religion of the three Abrahimic religions. It never ceases to amaze me the celerity with which Islamic Muslims (yes there are Christian Muslims, too) that live in the Western world defend their religion and how they pertinaciously ask for the government to protect their "freedom of speech" so that they can build a stronger rapport with Christians. I hear it all the time up here in Canada. Yet, as soon as Christians are in the minority, they defenstrate all of their "punctiliousness" and embark on this journey to rid the Christians from their land. Need an example? Just look at Pakistan, Indonesia, Syria and Egypt, where Christians are being persecuted everyday. Don't get me wrong; just as how most Islamic Muslims hate the Bush administration yet refrain from hating America as a whole, so too do I feel the same way; I don't hate Islamic Muslims personally so much so as I absolutely dislike their hypocrisy when dealing with matters of religion. The edits to the Gary Miller show just how this hypocrisy is taking place. Canadia 5:32, 29 August 2006 (UTC)