User talk:Fubar Obfusco

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[edit] Archive

[edit] Censorship Project

I really liked your message in censorship, and am glad such a project exists. People tried to delete the autofellitio images without explaining their viewpoint. I think the most effective way to get that project working is to simply use it to monitor potential censorship abuses, to perhaps list of works/images that tried to be censored in the past so everyone can monitor them to make sure they are not being censored now, etc.

Here's your message:

Censorship doesn't require cops. Censorship happens when someone destroys or prevents access to a work of communication for the purpose of suppressing a viewpoint. For instance, there have been many cases in the United States where radical groups at universities have stolen campus newspapers when those newspapers have expressed views to the groups' disliking. This is censorship, even though the radical group is still a marginalized group with no access to cops to enforce their way of thinking.
An organized group with the purpose of censoring Wikipedia can certainly do a great deal of damage, and could, for instance:
  1. "win" revert wars by being able to deploy editors to revert in an organized fashion -- locking the censored articles up in revert war and suppressing their development;
  2. suppress whole articles by deploying editors to VfD in an organized fashion, in the manner of the group that campaigns against deletion of articles about schools;
  3. drive people off the project with intimidation, insults, and harassment; or simply because people who thought Wikipedia was an open-minded project will be very dismayed to find their contributions labeled "indecent".
The presence of an organized, efficient pro-censorship group, willing to defy Wikipedia policy or to "game the system", is a hazard for these reasons. Wikipedia procedures such as VfD are not immune to gaming or to being overwhelmed by an organized group, even if that group is far from the whole project's consensus. Just because there are more of us who oppose censorship than there are people who are for it, doesn't mean that we should slack off if they organize.
Because censorship is antithetical to Wikipedia's policies, it is entirely reasonable that a group intent on censoring Wikipedia be disallowed from organizing -- just as a group intent on vandalizing, or creating vanity articles, or posting personal attacks, or in any other way breaking the rules should be disallowed from organizing. But if it cannot be prevented, those who wish to protect Wikipedia's policies against censorship should likewise organize: to draw attention to abuses committed by censors; to countervail organized efforts to revert or delete articles for the purpose of censorship; to offer support to those being intimidated by censors; and to advocate for the protection and enforcement of policies against censorship and harassment.

[edit] he/she/it/they/etc.

It will be interesting to see how long before someone puts back the he-she debate. It is a matter of no small debate. And while Shake-speare may have used "they" as a singular word, it is still conventional practice (as far as I know) for English teachers to teach that "they" is incorrect singular usage. Personally, I think "they" works just fine. I use it that way all the time, and I have a college degree, don'cha know. "He-or-she" is awkward and annoying. And I once had an English instructor who told me that, "correct" or not, "they" will eventually become standard usage for that very reason. Wahkeenah 16:30, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

It's true that some instructors disapprove of singular "they". Some disapprove of splitting infinitives too -- another artificial "rule" constructed by professors who wanted to make English more like Latin. In both cases, the "rule" is a slavish imitation of Romance-language grammar, and shows a disrespect for the English literature. --FOo 17:47, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
...and for the inherent democracy of the language, which is one reason why English has become the universal language, and not French or Latin or Serbo-Croatian. As noted in the article, "to boldly go where no [substitute politically correct term] has gone before" just sounds better than "to go boldly". And let's not forget the time-honored saying: "A preposition is a word you should never end a sentence with." And notice how I said "you", not "one", another awkward construct in many cases, which is thankfully dying. And that use of "thankfully" is also grammatically incorrect, but it works. Wahkeenah 17:58, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wiffle Bat

I present you with this award in honor of your astoundingly reasonable and true statements in the aftermath of the AFD-delisting furor. ~~ N (t/c) 03:37, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] AfD deletions

Hi Fubar. I just wanted to tell you that I was very impressed with your insightful comments concerning Snowspinner's AfD deletions, at ANI and his RfC. Thanks. Paul August ☎ 21:06, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Threat

Hello, I responded to your comments at the link above. If you'd like to assist in trying to help try and make him conform to community civility standards, i'd welcome your assistance, although he's a serial bad behavior offender, as evident on his rfc. Karmafist 14:31, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Further to your criticism of his threat, Karmafist has first banned me for 24 hours, falsely accusing me of vandalism, and is now threatening to ban me indefinately. He seems to think that only I object to his behaviour. Andy Mabbett 23:00, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Charles Lenhsherr speedy removal

Howdy! Just an FYI, I've left a note on User talk:RHaworth asking why he removed the speedy tag from the Charles Lenhsherr article, in case you want to track the issue. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 15:41, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] You OK with putting Image:Zombie-process.png up for a vote for featured picture?

I really like the diagram you made (especially the faces) about botnets and was wondering, are you OK with me posting it up for a vote for featured picture? --Bash 20:10, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Glad you like it! Sure. Thanks! --FOo 00:20, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
Zombie process with colours changed
Enlarge
Zombie process with colours changed

There's some opposition over at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Zombie Process, and I've changed some colours to make it more "acceptable". Take a look at it and see what you think. --Bash 22:11, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Eh, well, it's certainly not a work of heartrending brilliance. ~.~;
I'm not sure I like the red -- it looks a little glaring on my screen. Could just be a gamma difference (I'm on an Apple Studio Display). The pink was intended to be "SPAM" colored .... --FOo 03:24, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
Done. They're also saying that the picture needs to be bigger. Could you resize it? --Bash 06:04, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Computer science

You have just modified the computer science page. I agree with your modifications, except when you say computer science is not an experimental science. It is true that CS is not an experimental science in essence, but not true that CS mnever makes use of experiments, therefore I think your claim that CS is not an experimental science is misleading, and you could revise your otherwise valuable contribution without implying that CS is not experimental. As an explanantion to my point of view, let me point out that many algortithms are tested experimentally ONLY (until formal analysis is possible). For example, the strategies for implementations of the simplex algorithm are described through experimental results since no theoretical results exist. This was just a classical and VERY important example, but this state of affair is very common in many cases: if you cant analyse formally an algorithm, you analyse it experimentally. Even when you have a formal analysis, you often add simulation results. Often, the analysis is made using simplifying assumption, and final validation is by testing the efficiency experimentally, via simulations. Computer science is full of experiments!!! (And I am a theoretical computer scientist, so I am kind of preaching against my own school...)

Kind regards, --Powo 09:13, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

My goal there was to remove and to specify the mistake of the claim by User:Jhballard that computer science was "the accumulated knowledge through scientific methodology by computation or by the use of the computer."
Well done!
First off, I wanted to clarify the difference between computer science and scientific computing -- the use of computation to work with scientific data and thereby "accumulate knowledge". The above definition would mean that a physicist who uses computer simulations is doing computer science thereby, and that the physics results obtained would be computer science results since they were obtained "by the use of the computer". Clearly, not anything one does on a computer is computer science. :)
Second, it seems to me that a field of study can have some empirical aspects to it without being an experimental science. (For instance, creative writing is usually not considered an experimental science, even though it does have empirical aspects, such as writing workshops in which writers test their work against audiences.) The algorithm examples that you cite are certainly empirical.
However, over the history of CS, most progress has not been by experiment but by mathematical discovery and engineering-like design. Whether one thinks of new algorithms (for instance) as being discovered or invented, they are clearly not arrived at by experiment and hypothesis in the way that (say) physics results are.
It is silly, I suggest, to argue over whether or not CS "is" a science, as some do. That would depend on what one means by "science"; whether this is taken to mean all knowledge-gathering; or only the empirical; or even only the experimental. Nonetheless, I think it's safe to say that while there are nooks within CS that use experiment and hypothesis, by and large CS is not an experimental science in the sense that physics or chemistry are. --FOo 13:38, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
Ok. Your point of view is sensible. As I said, I entirely agree with your modifications, except for the "non experimental" point of view. I am not sure at all to be convinced though. You give an example from linguistics, which is not science first of all. Also, you make a distinction between empirical results and experimental science. That's interesting! Could you elaborate?... (btw, sorry for the initial posting of this message at the top of the page). Best regards, --Powo 15:24, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
I'm using "empirical" to describe methods for gaining knowledge by observing or interacting with the outside world and forming descriptions of what's observed -- as opposed to gaining knowledge by contemplation or deduction from first principles. Maybe a more formal expression would be the philosopher's category a posteriori, as opposed to a priori.
I feel pretty safe in saying that the pursuits which are definitively science -- physics, biology, chemistry, and so on -- are also very clearly a posteriori. They depend on observation and interaction with the natural world. Even though modern physics is very mathematical, you can't deduce physics facts from mathematical first principles alone.
Is this true? Is this true for, say... Relativity?
In contrast, mathematics and logic usually considered the paradigm examples of the a priori. You can (if you're clever enough, and have enough time -- possibly infinite time) deduce the most complex mathematical facts from first principles. (You can do math in your head without reference to the outside world, even if you're a brain in a vat. Axiomatic geometry, for instance, is consistent even without measuring any actual lines or circles anywhere.)
I'm using "experimental science" to refer to a subset of a-posteriori pursuit of knowledge. Specifically, I mean the disciplines which center around something (vaguely!) resembling the "scientific method" of hypothesis formulation, experiment design, testing, repetition, and so on. So there are plenty of pursuits that center around empirical knowledge but aren't experimental science. (Most crafts, for instance -- or the formalization of crafts, which we call engineering.) We can say they're "scientific" if by that we mean "well-founded on real-world knowledge" (as opposed to, say, faith) but these practices don't themselves involve the "generate and test" process of doing science.
What I'm getting at is that the basic truths and problems of computer science are more like mathematics than physics. Take algorithmic complexity, for instance -- you don't have to run experiments to determine what it is for a given algorithm; that's a mathematical truth derivable from the algorithm itself (when formally specified). Or take the halting problem -- we wouldn't accept experiments as evidence that it's insoluble; we do accept formal proof.
Algorithmic complexity (my phD subject it was :) is probably the most "more mathematics-like (or logics-like) than physics-like" case in CS. So, its probably not the best example to show that CS is also an experimental science (wich is my non neutral point of view (non NPOV)). However, even in this case!...

Take a look at: http://ic.arc.nasa.gov/people/frank/phases.html (got it by google "NP-hard + phase transition"). NP-hardness is studied from an experimental point of view. Further more it seems to me this experiment is of the "contemplative" type: you take an NP-hard problem, and you "look" at it... Also, its been considerd lately that NP=?P could be independant from the axioms (i.e. undecidable!...) However, there could still be some kind of "physical" answer to NP=?P. What about the "evidence" given by the fact that if P=NP, we would have found an P algorithm for at least one of so many NP-complete problems? (Yeah, that's not really a point, I agree. But it's part of not so unusual irrational beleafs within CS theorists...)

There are certain cases -- the ones you describe above, for instance -- where empirical methods are used in CS research, because the theory hasn't been invented yet. But it seems to me that it's understood that the theory will eventually get there, and would be preferred ... just as mathematicians would not like to settle for a numerical approximation to something, but actually have a constructive proof of it. --FOo 16:19, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
Is this not often the case in physics too? E.g. physics of "material" (not sure this is the correct english word...).

Dear FOo, I've read with interest your point of view, and added a few remarks/questions "inline", in case you would like to push the discussion/reflexion further. Best regards: --Powo 20:47, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] External links

I agree that many good and useful websites contain ads. There should be no hard-and-fast rule regarding ads, as its more of a case-by-case judgment. The consideration should be the ratio of ads vs. useful content. If a site has more ads than content and information, then I'd favor deleting it. Or it the topic is less notable, maybe an ad-supported site is the only (or one of few) references and then would be okay. --Aude 14:35, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bots on the Wikipedia

For future reference, unauthorized bots are not permitted by the English Wikipedia, and certainly automatic spelling bots. See Wikipedia:Bots for more details on bot policy. --AllyUnion (talk) 13:41, 13 November 2005 (UTC)


Just a quick note to say that ShadowH is Ciz. I've given him his warning, the rest's up to him. Feel free to delete this message when you're done. FT2 12:05, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] You seem fairly sane

Have your read Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2005/Candidate statements? Maybe you should add your own?

  • Thank you for your approval, but I don't think I have the time to serve adequately on the Arbitration Committee. Moreover, I fear that after a couple of cases you'd see me propose remedies like this: "Resolved, that both parties are mindless jerks who'll be the first up against the wall when the Revolution comes." --FOo 21:18, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
    • If most of the cases before the Arbitration Committee involve people who work for SCC Marketing on both sides, maybe there is some way that we can curtail Wikipedia's involvement in internal SCC matters. What does the edition of Wikipedia that fell through the time warp from the future say about how we solved this problem? ☺ Uncle G 02:19, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Spyware

I saw that you removed one of my edits. The fact is computer hackers are difficult to trace and mostly impossible to find. The sure method of prevention is to prohibit networks access to the outside world. All computers are vulnerable. Hackers are tenacious and unscrupulous - some do it for financial gain; others just for the fun of it. Even users on Wikipedia are vulnerable especially exposing one's IP address, leaving behind "electronic bread crumbs". ,,,,,Ariele 17:36, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Part of what you say is basically true, but not particularly relevant to the matter of spyware. Spyware is not created "for the fun of it". By and large it is created by known, aboveboard companies such as Claria and First 4 Internet. In the case of less aboveboard spyware creators, money is still channeled to them by exploiting aboveboard advertising mechanisms such as affiliate marketing programs, Google AdSense, and the like. While spyware programs conceal themselves on a computer, spyware creators are necessarily sufficiently exposed so as to be able to collect revenue. Otherwise they wouldn't bother!
Prohibiting networks access to the outside world is a technique that is vital for particular types of networks, and utterly irrelevant for others. For a military network or some internal corporate networks, isolation of this sort makes sense. For an online business or a home network, it is absurd: these networks are useful to their users only by dint of being connected to the Internet, not isolated.
Network filtering tools such as firewalls are valuable at preventing certain kinds of attacks -- such as network worms -- but are useless at preventing spyware. Spyware is usually installed on a system in response to user action: such as going to a Web site that exploits IE vulnerabilities; or installing a piece of downloaded proprietary software; or inserting a trojaned compact disc. A firewall which prevents me from going to Web sites is stopping me from doing what I want to do. A firewall cannot stop software installation or the insertion of a CD.
There is no particular hazard to "exposing your IP address". Your IP address is transmitted every time that you send anything on the Internet: email messages, Web requests, IMs, what-have-you. That's how the Internet works! You cannot rely on hiding your IP address to protect you from remote attack, since attackers are easily able to scan the entire IP address space looking for vulnerable hosts. (That will change with IPv6, yes.)
Finally, it is not true that "all computers are vulnerable" -- at least, not if what you mean is "all computers are equally vulnerable". It is an unfortunate fact that the most popular operating system in the world today is also by far the most vulnerable to many sorts of attack, including spyware. Today, the spyware problem exists only on Microsoft Windows; there is nothing comparable in scale or in severity on Mac OS X, Linux, or other operating systems. --FOo 21:27, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for your reply. I agree with what you say here. This topic on Spyware is relatively new but fascinating to me. I'm an older generation (I do mean old e.g. the Fortran & punch card generation) computer geek but have not worked professionally in this field. Spyware got my attention when I myself have observed activities from "malicious software" on my own computer; supposedly protected by a reputable Firewall (networking) software.
I hope to learn more about this problem...,,,Ariele 02:11, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Níðhöggr > Nidhogg?

I had hoped that we could settle the issue of Norse mythology names with the naming convention vote but now there is once again a request to strip an article title of diacritics and nominative ending. If you can spare the time your opinion would be valued at Talk:Níðhöggr. - Haukur Þorgeirsson 19:46, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Spyware spam

Heyo. I appreciate your vigilance on the Spyware article. But I'm not sure the article Mr. IP Address put up is spam. I looked at it and it actually looks like a relevant site. The only reason I chopped it before was that he'd put it up three times and has a history of trying to sell fake rolexes. I'm not really fussed if you decide to put the link back or not; the site was OK but not spectacular. Reyk 04:34, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

The user had put up the same link on the top of lists at both Spyware and Malware. In general, putting a new external link at the top of a list is a remarkably certain sign of link-spam. Repeatedly posting the same link is, too. There are a few other "spam signs" noted on Wikipedia:Spam.
And if someone's using a site to commit fraud (selling fake Rolexes), I don't care how relevant it is ... posting it to Wikipedia is enlisting Wikipedia to connive in a criminal act, so the link has got to go. --FOo 04:43, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] My comment

Hi Fubar, please don't move or remove my comment. There are no rules about people not being allowed to explain their vote, and anyway this is an extremely informal poll, which will not determine what happens in the policy. Policy can't be changed by majoritarianism. SlimVirgin (talk) 10:54, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your response. I was already in the middle of responding on your talk page, so I've left my comment there. --FOo 10:59, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
Hi again, I would like to keep my comment where it is. I find this all rather inappropriate to be honest. A major change to the policy is being pushed by a small number of people, and the discussion has been split between locations and not advertised widely. Policy can't be changed that way, so I definitely do want my comment to remain with my vote, and in fact, I wish you wouldn't hold the poll at all, because major policy changes shouldn't be decided by polls (and won't be). SlimVirgin (talk) 11:03, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for your response.
First off, I agree with you that policies are not decided by polls. Policies are decided by consensus. The only purpose of holding a poll is to gauge consensus. If there exists consensus for a policy proposal, then it is a policy, and the policy page needs to be updated to reflect it.
A major reason that I put this poll up is that there were getting to be different versions of the proposal, and I wish to know whether people who supported one version were basically amenable to any, or whether some were clearly preferred over the others.
Second, I do not understand your claim that the proposal is a "major change". It does not change the sense of the rule. The rule is as it has been: Administrators in a substantive conflict with an editor are not allowed to use blocking against that editor. The proposal here is to amend the policy so that it gives better instruction -- to more clearly spell out why it's a bad idea to block someone you're in conflict with, and what the alternatives are.
Admins in a content dispute should not block. You are trying to change that. But this is the problem with the discussion: here it is split again. You should choose one venue so that everyone can see all the posts. SlimVirgin (talk) 11:45, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
What, exactly, is the problem with offering these explanations and help?
Third, I am concerned that your objection regarding trolls amounts to treating the fussing and wailing of trolls as more important than the integrity of Wikipedia administrators. The goal of a troll is to say whatever will cause aggravation and hurt, in order to get attention. Your claim that the proposed policy change will be used by trolls is trivially true ... because trolls will say anything.
You cannot outwit a troll by cleverly choosing policies so that they cannot be twisted and misread ... because anything can be twisted and misread. So the objection, "We cannot change this policy because it would be abused by trolls" can be applied to any change and any policy, and is not an actionable objection.
In contrast, while we can't outwit trolls, we can better equip Wikipedia administrators. We can remind people that they don't stand alone, that they can call for help when they're dealing with an obnoxious editor. We can remind people of the consensus regarding blocking people one is in conflict with -- so that they don't make that mistake and bring down the same nastiness we've just recently seen.
Lastly, I do not agree with your claim that this proposal is "being pushed by a small number of people". I created the proposal as a way to sum up what a large number of folks were expressing following a very unfortunate recent incident. Several people have now expressed support for the proposal. A few have expressed concerns, and I've tried to engage in a discussion of these concerns rather than merely a replaying of the same noises at one another.
When I last looked, more had expressed concern that had supported. But it's not being widely advertised, which it needs to be. SlimVirgin (talk) 11:45, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
I am confused by your claim that the discussion has been "split between locations and not advertised widely". This objection seems to contradict itself: if something is discussed widely, the discussion takes place in many locations, right? And it's true that the issue of it being inappropriate to block people one is in conflict with has been discussed in many places -- e.g. Ed Poor's talk page, the Duncharris RFC, WP:AN/I, and WikiEN-L. However, that should come as no surprise, since it is an important issue -- and since there is widespread agreement that the recent unpleasantness was an egregious violation of consensus.
But the proposal to amend the blocking policy to offer explanations and suggestions? I have only seen it announced on WP:AN/I and discussed on Wikipedia talk:Blocking policy. Since it is not a huge change, it doesn't seem necessary to spam the world about it. --FOo 11:38, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
It is a major change. SlimVirgin (talk) 11:45, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

OK, I get it now. I didn't understand that your disagreement was over the distinction between a conflict among editors and an article editing conflict. To me, there isn't too much difference -- the two seem to go very closely together.

Are you claiming that administrators should be allowed to block people with whom they are engaged in other sorts of conflicts -- e.g. exchanging accusations on talk pages, or on AfD? That kind of activity was a major part of the recent ugliness, and it seems to me that editors generally believe that an administrator who's too closely involved in a conflict with another editor on any forum should not be the one to block that editor if needs be.

I still don't see any support for the troll claim. Trolls will twist anything, so we can't base our policies on whether trolls will twist them or not. --FOo 21:58, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Zombie-process.png

Best Wikipedia diagram ever - David Gerard 23:43, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "User freespeech" template

Helloo.. Saw your free speech thing and thought you might be interested in this template (which is also linked from the WikiProject talk page: {{User:Feureau/UserBox/freespeech}}

A link so you can preview it: {{User:Feureau/UserBox/freespeech}}

Hope you like, it's pretty much the same but will also automatically add you to the Wikipedians against censorship category. :) --Mistress Selina Kyle 17:43, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Stopping Spam

Stopping e-mail abuse was moved after a long open comment period on :Talk, for stated reasons. You moved it back for NO stated reason. I'm undoing your effort. Elvey

Whoops! No, it wasn't. There was one mis-posted comment there -- new comments go at the bottom of talk pages, not the top. Moreover, the title "Stopping Spam" that you chose doesn't match the Wikipedia style guide regarding capitalization anyway, so it would have to be moved regardless. --FOo 20:41, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
How 'bout some advice? I figure there should be coverage on wikipedia of methods of fighting email spam and other forms of spam. In what article(s) do you think these should be covered? As I mentioned, I think there's a lot of overlap. For example, consider IP and URI blacklists & whitelists, reputation services, cost-based systems (hashcash, e-stamp, and bond types), content and statistical filters - all these methods can stop spam in any media.
What part(s) of the statement, "Stopping e-mail abuse was moved after a long (4Nov-26Dec) open comment period on :Talk, for stated reasons. You moved it back for NO stated reason," are you claiming isn't true? My bad about the caps; Stopping spam would be correct, I think.
Hello? -Elvey 08:29, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

In appreciation of your tireless efforts to smite vandalism and spamdalism from the Spyware article, a Barnstar.

Thank you.
Thank you.

Reyk 08:02, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Firefox anon

You pinged them for adding links to the article, when they were actually removing a link Beachy keeps adding.--SarekOfVulcan 23:57, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Whoops! Sorry about that! --FOo 01:46, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hello Fubar Obfusco

Regarding "Churches of Scientology are busy places" You stated that the Church in your town is not a busy place, there is hardly anyone there? is that a "Church of Scientology" or a "Mission of Scientology" or a "Dianetics Auditor Group?" What town? Terryeo 04:01, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] OpenBSD

I've replied (well, several replies :-) to your comment on the FAC. Although I don't totally agree with your view that the article is not technical enough, I'm interested in your opinion of my changes of structure here (I've had a couple of approving comments and I'd like to change it to the main article tonight so hopefully others will comment further before the FAC ends), and of course any further comments you have toward making the article better. NicM 19:01, 10 January 2006 (UTC).

[edit] please be careful with removing the templates!

I've seen your work before, so I can only assume that at Office of Special Affairs you were just so frustrated with the {{ScientologySeries}} template that you didn't notice you were also restoring to the article heavily POV language comparing the OSA to the Gestapo and suchlike. Please be more careful -- and please calm down about the template. Right now the back and forth of people removing it and restoring it is causing so much "churn" that it would be a tailor-made time for POV-pushers to try and sneak in partisan edits, counting on people to be too busy fighting the template war to spot it. Surely that's not what we want. -- Antaeus Feldspar 21:01, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Whoops! You're right, I was working through a list of the articles that the series template was deleted from, and inadvertently restored to a not-so-great version. Sorry about that. It wasn't out of "frustration" -- just a goof. --FOo 02:49, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another poll

Just thought you'd like to know that another poll (this one official) is taking place toward the bottom of the NAMBLA discussion page in which users are asked (yes or no) if NAMBLA should be categorized in each of the pedophilia organizations, pederasty organizations, and LGBT organizations. Regards, Corax 22:18, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] You *like* making diagrams and flowcharts?

Okay, the scientology series really needs one to explain how all the orgs, non-profits, religious centers, etc. fit together... without looking like messy spaghetti. Think you can put one together? Ronabop 07:23, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Sure! But it would be original research if we don't actually have a source of the data for it. --FOo 07:29, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] english

[edit] Scumware

Fubar Obfusco, you redirected Scumware to Spyware. I contest this redirect. I left a comment on Talk:Scumware; could you comment? Thanks —Quarl (talk) 2006-01-15 13:25Z

[edit] Over Bold

Sorry about that. Everyone just seemd to be making lots of words and I wanted some old-fashioned {{sofixit}}, but I should have done to start what I did end the end: made a new copy. In fact, I had alredy done that once before I boxed yours, but got edit conflicted three times and gave up. Mea culpa, and do you want me to make it all the way back like it was before I touched it? That seems like an obvious thing, but since I've already done my bull in a china shop routine once today...
brenneman(t)(c) 07:45, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Eh, no big deal, I get why you did it. To me, it makes more sense to post multiple versions or proposals rather than to all pile on and edit a single one, so that they can be compared side by side. --FOo 08:02, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] spyware

hahaha yeh. Spyware sucks. - Sorry about this guy. Son of a family friend. Nice enough guy but online he turns into a real pain in the ass. Shouldn't have let him use my computer. I'm just glad he logged me out before starting his wikipedia career or I'd have some explaining to do. Reyk 07:31, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Awww...

Sometimes thingss are funnier when you don't spell them out. Now I can't feel all superiour at my quiet chuckle in thinking the same thing.
brenneman{T}{L} 04:06, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm not trying to be funny or superior. I think it's a serious problem. --FOo 04:31, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
I also think that it's a serious problem, but we all deal with things in different ways. I try very hard not to rise up with biting comments and sometimes succeed.
  • Last I counted Tony has said "I should be dead-minned" at least three times. This doesn't of coure count him asking for himself to be banned, or the times he'd thrown himself at ArbCom before with similar melodrama. On one of the current occasions he explicitly says "If any 6 arbitrators..." as if this is some sort of game of chicken.
  • Which, as I've observed before, almost every interaction with Tony in fact is. "I'll delete this one more time... will you restore it again?" Or "I'll restore another article for editing, will you {{tempundelete}} it again?" Never giving an inch, never backing down except when RfC-ed, and only then long enough to "t(ake) away their rope".
This isn't good for the encyclopedia, I don't care how often he's "right". Hell, almost all of us with the mop are right almost all the time, we just don't make such a damn fuss about it... err, I'm ranting aren't I. Sorry... taking it outside, sticking my head in a bucket.
brenneman{T}{L} 04:59, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm worried that Tony may be on the path Ed Poor trod. I really hope not. Fights suck. --FOo 05:02, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Trusted Computing Edit(s)

Hi there,

I'm concerned that you might think I'm trying to "whitewash" the concerns about TC away. That's certainly not my intention, and I think it is right that concerns are accurately described. However, I really don't believe the issues raised in the section I edited are technically justified; the examples given are somewhat contrived, and might be better expressed. A lot of Trusted Computing technology is currently undefined, or defined by marketing blurbs and vapourware, but the debate is welcome! --Boxflux 09:50, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I left a note on Talk:Trusted computing StephenHildrey 19:39, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] About that.

"Please do not introduce errors into articles such as Evolution and Age of the Earth. For instance, the para you introduced into our Evolution article makes the erroneous assumption that population growth is constant. We know that this is not even the case during recorded history! We know, for example, that birthrates change within and amongst populations; and that events such as plagues and wars cause sharp population declines. --FOo 09:48, 24 February 2006 (UTC)"

I would like to refute your claiming that I introduced error into the wikipedia. First, evolution. I did not add any assumption that population growth was constant. I was just pointing out the lunacy in people believing that humans have been around for millions of years when even if the growth rate was horrendously low, their would still be billions more people on earth. In my calculations I only used very low rates. If I had used the 1.4% which is the current growth rate, the amount of people after all of those millions of years would be ASTRONOMICAL (something like 10^1000 of just humans). It doesn't make sense for humans to have been around for millions of years, so if anything, the entire article on evolution is error.

On the age of the earth, the constant half-life of the earth's magnetic field is irrefutable. If the earth truly has been around for 4.55 billion years, the magnetic field would be so high that the earth wouldn't be able to handle it.

Evolution and the age of the earth are all THEORIES, not LAWS, so there should be all facts presented from both sides.Asemoasyourmom 22:20, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Please see this reference on population growth and this one on Earth magnetism. You are quoting common misconceptions on these matters. These are subtle errors -- not so blatant as "the Earth is flat" ... more along the lines of believing that the eye's lens is its primary focusing element (in fact, it's the cornea). --FOo 04:45, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

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[edit] Request for Arbitration - Terryeo

Following the recent Request for Comments on Terryeo's conduct, I've submitted the matter to the Arbitration Committee as a Request for Arbitration (see WP:RFAr#Terryeo). You're welcome to add your name as an involved party if you wish. -- ChrisO 20:22, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gold chart

Hi, I don't offhand but I can easily make one. I will do so tomorrow or later, at the moment I'm busy. There's a longer chart at "Gold as an investment" taken from Kitco.com under a nonfree, restrictive license that never should have been put up. Gold price data is readily available and there is no need to rely on outside sources for charts. I can make a chart later going back pretty much through all of American history, but certainly a 50 year chart showing the spike in price during the '70s would be great. NTK 05:14, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I've made several new charts, some of which I have inserted into various articles, here they are.
Image:LBMA Au AM USD 2001-06042006.png
Image:LBMA Au AM USD 2001-06042006.png
Image:Au monthly price USD 1968-2006.png
Image:Au monthly price USD 1968-2006.png
Image:Au annual average USD price 1793-2005.png
Image:Au annual average USD price 1793-2005.png
Image:Ag annual average USD price 1792-2005.png
Image:Ag annual average USD price 1792-2005.png

NTK 01:08, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anti-Semitism

Hi, colleague. FYI, I have reverted your revert at A-S back to the stable and factually correct wording. That was User:Liquid Love's first and only edit. If you wish, we can discuss this at the article's talk page. Cheers. ←Humus sapiens ну? 09:28, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] English spelling: fool proof?

Hello, on Dutch Wikipedia there has been some discussion regarding proper English spelling of the word fool(-)proof. To resolve this issue, we require the opinion of an educated native English speaker. Could you please tell me which of the following variants of fool(-)proof you would consider proper, trusting only on your own intuitive, immediate 'feeling':

'Mary-Elizabeth nevertheless managed to destroy the fool proof dishwasher, after melting her foolproof iron and sinking her son's fool-proof boat.'

If you have an opinion about this at all, that is: perhaps such variants all feel acceptable to you. And what about bullet(-)proof, full(-)scale, hawk(-)nosed, brand(-)new, even(-)handed, fail(-)safe? Does the same apply to all? Thank you very much for your co-operation, you could reply here or on my User Talk page. Cerberus™ 01:21, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding your revert to my edits in Scientology

You wrote that my edits in Scientology were bogus. I pointed out that "Critics claim...XYS" is a weasel word which it is. If you are going to state that "critics claim" something then you need to either 1) state which critics stated it where and when or 2) cite another party that says "critics state...XYZ". All I did was add "citation needed" text on things where there is no citation. I would appreciate it if you would 1) provide the requested citations to back up the claim, 2) reword the text so it doesn't use weasel words, or at least 3) allow me to insert the "citation needed" claim. I am a long time critic of Scientology, but even I realize just how grossly biased these articles sound when they have so many unsourced claims using "weasel words". I hope you can help me improve the article on Scientology rather than just reverting my clearly explained edits. Thanks. Vivaldi 04:15, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I also notice you reverted back to where it now says "Quiet Births" instead of "Silent Births". The most common term for the process is called "Silent Birth" as you can easily check by using Google, Yahoo Search, or Lexis/Nexis. Something like 67,000 pages mention "Silent Birth"&"Scientology" whereas less than 300 contain "Quiet Birth"&"Scientology". I have explained my edits on the talk page for Scientology and I wish you would make your comments there to justify why we should use "Quiet Births". Vivaldi 04:38, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Ack! I was not trying to revert you. I was trying to revert 200.126.205.100, who did introduce "bogus warnings", here. Someone else already got to it, and while I was bouncing from revision to revision, you made the diffs which I inadvertently reverted. :( ---FOo 05:29, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Okay. That makes sense now. I know it often gets confusing when more than one person is editing the article at one time. (especially on real long articles) I also reverted those edits that you were trying to get rid of before I added a couple of [citation needed] tags. Unfortunately, you stepped in the middle and missed my revert. It's no big deal. I just commented here to cover my bases and explain my reasonings, because I didn't understand what you were doing, and I thought you might've needed an explanation of my intentions. Take care. Vivaldi 08:22, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] regarding spyware edits

Fubar, you removed my edit regarding WinPatrol, et al, as being misleading advertising. I don't represent WinPatrol nor am I associated with it in any way.

The existing anti-spyware section makes no reference to these types of programs. There may be others, WinPatrol just happens to be one that I have experience with.

The chief benefit of these types of programs is their "zero day" nature... they do not rely on the download of signature files after a certain "n" of users have had, and reported a problem.

At any rate, these tools are legitimate software and have proven themselves to be reliable tools developed with reputable intentions. I believe you are wrong to simply delete references to them, they are no less legitimate or useful than any of the other programs specifically referenced in the wiki. I am curious as to why you feel some of the tools deserve specific mention, while others of equal utility and legitimacy, you delete. If you felt that the comparative reference to the other programs was too strongly worded, it would have been a simple matter to edit that sentence and not delete the entire entry.

Regards

My apologies. I hope that you understand that the Spyware article has suffered tremendously from spam attacks. Because this is a subject about which a great deal of nonsense and lies are spoken, I think we're reasonably suspicious of a contributor whose first ever edit is to add a seeming promotion for a new anti-spyware product.
All in all, it's almost always a bad thing when someone adds a reference to a product that gives it as the only example of something promoted as obviously desirable. I think you can see why this comes across as promotional, and even spammy, in nature.
It's unfortunate that Wikipedia has been so heavily abused by spammers. If what you're saying is true -- and I have no data to refute it -- then my apologies for summarily reverting the addition. Please go ahead and restore it. Anything you can to do to integrate it with the rest of the section, especially in a way which seems less promotional, would be a great thing for the article. --FOo 02:59, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the feedback FOo; What I did is actually edit a paragraph later in the section more in keeping with your comments above about other SW having the same capability. There was a paragraph that described how all anti-spyware SW require signature updates and felt that would be a better place to introduce the notion of "heuristic" or non-pattern matching approaches to malware detection. Mroesler 17:00, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Template:93 and other concerns

Thanks for taking the time back in March to counsel User:Ashami about {{93}} and other matters. Perhaps that will make it easier to accept my 'noticing' at least one specific instance of inappropriateness. I worry, because the last person I asked to step back and consider, did pause for about 5 hours, then went on to include links to their site in about 40 more pages. (perhaps that was research time?) Shenme 05:45, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ADL article

I note your edit summary on the ADL article: "The source is a scurrilous "pro-white" racist organization." I admire your sense of understatement. They are neo-Nazis. -- Cecropia 07:08, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nothing

I don't do barstars, but if I did I'd give you one: You're a good egg. this isn't promted by anything in particular, just that I reckon we don't tell each other stuff like that often enough. - brenneman{L} 08:26, 16 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Irgendwer RfC

I've filed a request request for comment at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Irgendwer and your input would be appreciated. --rehpotsirhc █♣█ ▪ Talk 04:57, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. I basically agree with your discussion of Irgendwer's conduct. However, I note that in this edit, Irgendwer is not advising me not to "throw fits", as you describe in the RFC. Rather, he paraphrases and responds to my assertion (in an edit summary) that the word "political" fits; that is, my assertion that the word is fitting. --FOo 05:22, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard//Incidents Brian J. Bruns (Brian Bruns)

I responded to your opinions at ANI about Brian J. Bruns. Look at the court dox. :) --Chakabuh 08:46, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Checkuser request

You made a request on Wikipedia:Requests for CheckUser. More information is needed before this can be carried out, could you please reply on the request page. Thanks - the wub "?!" 18:29, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] How-to info on plants...

Thanks for being gentle on the Tomato thing (i.e.: changing the heading rather than the content). If you're interested in moving how-to information from plant articles to a more appropriate place, please do it through b:A Wikimanual of Gardening... if you dump things there, I'll sort them out on the WB end. SB Johnny 00:34, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Beer article. British spelling v. American spelling

Hi Fubar. Unless I've made some mistake here, what has happened is I reverted a "correction" of the word practise into practice. The article is written in British English - as such the word practise is a verb. Correcting it into practice puts it into an incorrect usage - either as British English, or as an American English spelling in a British English article. I'm popping it back into practise. If you feel I've made a mistake, please let me know. Cheers. SilkTork 22:17, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

My bad. The word is a noun. Practice would be the correct spelling. I've been having a bit of a blonde moment here. SilkTork 22:21, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your ANI post

I've responded on the page. --Gurubrahma 03:45, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spyware

I reverted that edit to Spyware here because I thought it had a point of view. Not everyone thinks Kazaa is desirable. Maybe it should be made more specific to show that spyware piggybacks on software that is only considered to be desirable, which includes Kazaa.

Do you think that part should stay the same or be change or removed? --Sbluen 04:17, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, it's true that not everyone considers Kazaa to be desirable. I, for one, have no use for it. However, the user who is installing Kazaa (and, unknowingly, installing spyware) presumably does think it is desirable. Otherwise they would not be installing it. Perhaps "desired" would be more to the point -- the user wants to have Kazaa itself, but does not realize that it comes with spyware. --FOo 06:34, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Congratulations

...on being the latest addition to Daniel Brandt's Hit List! I also hope that one day I will integrate fully into the wiki-hivemind and be worthy of mention there myself. While I normally find personal attacks distasteful, I'd be willing to go the extra mile and insult him profusely (not an especially difficult goal to achieve) if that's what it takes to be included in what has become a Wikipedia Hall of Fame :) --Doc Tropics Message in a bottle 19:41, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Shrug. Two wrongs don't make a right. I have no interest in harassing a harasser. Eventually these fools will go over the line and all end up in jail for breaking into someone's computer or something. Until then, meh. --FOo 02:32, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
It sounds like you're probably a better person than I am; mostly I just wanted to let you know your personal info had been published on Brandt's website. Happy editing. --Doc Tropics Message in a bottle 03:35, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Greetings Rocker

Greeting Fellow Rocker,

I have revamped the userbox for SRC. You can view it at: [1]. If you add this to your user page, your user page will be placed in Category:Wikipedians by alma mater: Simon's Rock College of Bard. For instructions on how to add this userbox to your user page and more information see WP:Userboxes.

Share and enjoy, GabrielF 23:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

P.S. I'm sorry if I made a mistake in assuming you went to Simon's Rock - I'm about 80% certain that I'm right. GabrielF 00:06, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Prayer good article nomination

I am here to say that I very recently failed the article Prayer. I left comments on the talk page. As you are the nominator, I thought it would be a good idea to tell you. Some P. Erson 20:48, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spyware on FAR

Per mine and other's comments on that talk page, and your own confessions that you have not had the time to devote to the article that you once did, I have listed Spyware at FAR.

I believe that's best ... it seems there was a lot of work done on that article but unfortunately, in the fifteen months since it was promoted a lot of deprecatory edits were made.

It can be saved, ultimately, I think. Daniel Case 05:30, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

"Confessions"? Nice way of putting it. Bozos screwed up an article and it's my fault? :) Thanks for the notice but I doubt I'll have time or motivation to fix it. Please do go ahead if you like. --FOo 06:05, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


I have fixed up the article now (more than I thought I would have been able to do), but I still think it needed review, so I listed it again (it was pulled the first time because apparently you're supposed to wait a week after any Main Page turn to put it on FAR. So I gave it a good copyedit and found some sources it was missing. But it still needs some). Daniel Case 18:17, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "specific complaints"

If you look at the history of Scientology Justice, you'll see I made very specific complaints but then was told it was misusing the "citation needed" tag. So, apparently I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. Whose advice should I ignore - yours or Anteaus Feldspar's? Highfructosecornsyrup 05:40, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

What I see is that someone scrawled a bunch of extraneous "citation needed" tags all over the article in an apparent effort to make it unreadable. Are you taking credit for this act of vandalism? --FOo 05:43, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
I had no idea it was vandalism. Can you point me to a page in policy that says it is? I thought the 'citation needed' tag was for important statements that lacked citations. Everything I tagged was, IMHO, serious enough claims that they deserve direct sourcing. Why do you think the tags make it "unreadable"? Why do you think it's not more important to call attention to the article's serious bias problem, and thus improve it? Highfructosecornsyrup 05:48, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
I think you would be better served to edit constructively. If you think there need to be more sources, spend some time finding those sources instead of scrawling on the article.
Also, I do not believe that you are as new to Wikipedia as your user contributions page suggests. So please do not play the newbie here. I strongly suspect that you are a sock puppet of one of the various people who have been banned for vandalism and persistent disruption of Scientology-related articles. --FOo 05:57, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I've heard that joke already. I couldn't care less what you "suspect". Please be civil and leave your insulting and paranoid accusations out of it. And thanks for ignoring my sincere questions above. Highfructosecornsyrup 06:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DNSBL

Hi. I have reverted your changes to the DNSBL article because we are not supposed to censor articles on wikipedia. I have added a section on the talk page outlining the research I have done on the term. Before changing the definition, let's discuss this more. Wrs1864 05:38, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

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