User talk:Frode Inge Helland

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Hello, Frode Inge Helland, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date.

Thank you for your contributions to the article Georgio Psychoundakis. I've made some minor improvements to the formatting and added a link to his book. Another editor asked for references and, if you could do that it would be a really good idea. Do you know any newspaper articles or books which have been published about Georgio? What was your article based on?

If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  Mozzerati 22:15, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Just to say, it have you published your interview with Psychoundakis? It would be really appreciated. Mozzerati 22:15, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Image:Georgio Psychoundakis.jpg

I requested this image deleted on #wikipedia in accordance with no:User talk:Frode Inge Helland request. I'll believe we should first solve a couple of questions about the use of this image. Please upload it later! :D — John Erling Blad (no) 21:43, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] How to find Knut Gunnarsson Helland

When I search for Knut Gunnarsson Helland the search engine comes up with 0 result. But it is there. The address is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knut_Gunnarson_Helland

How come? Frode Inge Helland

The index files for the search mechanism isn't updated in real time but relies on a batch mechanism. That is, it is run once in a while. — John Erling Blad (no) 21:58, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Search engines and photo uploads

Hi Frode Inge; The search engine answer is, most likely that the search database hasn't been updated since. That will come after some days or weeks. The other alternative is to use google with site:en.wikipedia but that also takes some time to update and doesn't seem to have the article yet either. I guess the only thing is to wait a little while. One way to improve the articles visibility in the mean time is to make sure that the article is linked to from other related articles.

I've noticed that you have had images from Georgio Psychoundakis deleted. I think that's a real shame since it added to the article. I understand (though I can't follow the Norwegian) that part of this is because you don't want to give away full rightson the images. There are a number of different alternatives that can help with that, whilst still allowing Wikipedia the right to use the image. For example, you could give only a lower resolution picture, good enough for a web page. Alternatively (or in addition), you can add some "cover text" to the GFDL (see the copyrights on Wikipedia). Please consider if you can find some way to provide the image which would suit yourself.

Good luck, I like your new articles Mozzerati 22:23, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Mozzerati

I regret it myself. But I have decided long ago to give the photograph and the copyrights to Psycoundaki's widow. But I cant do that if the copy rights are spoiled trough Wikipedia's rigid rules.

--Frode Inge Helland 23:15, 14 March 2006 (UTC) Frode Inge Helland

P.S. I would be more than grateful if anybody would keep an eye on my spelling. I am struggeling and loosing.

[edit] Helland fiddle maker family

Mozzerati Thank you for cleaning up the article. But there is something I do not understand. I wrote this long ago, but was unable to relocate it. So I thought I had made some fatality. Then, short time ago it suddenly popped up again in its original, chaotic state. I did some small corrections and intended to return later to finish the job. Then I found it today through Google - cleaned up and shining. Thank You! But what puzzles me is that the records of the first entries are missing. Is this a new article with the old one still in orbit out there???

--Frode Inge Helland 07:00, 15 March 2006 (UTC)Frode

[edit] Knut Gunnarsson Helland with double "s"

Can anyone correct the headline?

Thank You - anyone! --Frode Inge Helland 11:37, 15 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Katgorizing Norwegian fiddle makers

I obviously do nt comprehend this. Is there some help out there?

--Frode Inge Helland 20:09, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Amerikan Hardanger fiddle makers

How do I categorize a stub. If I need the category american Hardanger fiddle makers. What do I do??

--Frode Inge Helland 21:27, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Someone else has .... ?

"Someone else has changed this page since you started editing it. The upper text area contains the page text as it currently exists. Your changes are shown in the lower text area. You will have to merge your changes into the existing text. Only the text in the upper text area will be saved when you press "Save page".

What does this mean? Where is the border between upper and lower text area??

What are the implications of this message??

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:KJonsborgSommer dans01.jpg

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[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:KJonsborgSommerdans02.jpg

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[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:PlantefargetSpelsaugarn.jpg

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[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Nidarosdomen_vestfronten_04.jpg

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[edit] Hello from Milano!

Dear Frode,

Thank you gor getting back to me on Lea! I do understand a bit of Norwegian. I worked several weeks at the central bureau of statistics in Oslo in '85, but had already studied a bit of Swedish by myself the previous year, + good English (incl. ssome study of Middle English from the 15th century) + decent German, all of which helped a little bit. While there I picked up enough to be still able to write secret notes to myself whenever I didn't want others to snoop into my writings using a pidgin freely based on Norwegian. Norwegians laugh at it but do understand the meaning.

You can go to www.filippo.ru.ru for more useless info on me, but also for my em address. Pls do write, I looked for your address but could not find it

More later...

FCC

[edit] Flåvær

Hei, Appreciate your contributing Flåvær to Wikipedia. Made some copy edits to it; you may want to review it and assure you are comfortable with it. Tusen takk - Williamborg (Bill) 02:41, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

That map you prepared is excellent. Any chance you can do more of them? And do you have more photos of the west coast of Norway (or anywhere in Norway)? Great stuff! Skål - Williamborg (Bill) 05:47, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Otternes

Otternes is an absolutely excellent article. I enjoyed it a great deal. The next time I am in Norway I will get to Otternes!

Please do more of these! Tusen Takk - Williamborg (Bill) 06:00, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Do you know of an article in Norwegian (or English) about the old style strip farming? I'm aware of it in Swedish, but had never seen it in Norway before. My family farm dates back, if pretty much the present form, to the 1700s. Williamborg (Bill) 06:02, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
I'll see what I can find.--Frode Inge Helland 07:39, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Havretunet

Bill, may be the strip farm Havretunet will interest you. And I am working on a translation (the ambitions goes far beyond the abilities) of my article on Aurlandsdalen (see http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruker:Frode_Inge_Helland/Kladd)

I'd suggest a reasonable translation (almost a total transliteration) of fellestunet is collective farm yard. If this translation were used, I'd understand in English that a fellestunet was a collective farmyard where multiple families lived and from which multiple fields were independently tilled. And I presume the fields, in the fashion common in early Denmark and Sweden, were long narrow strips. Is this your understanding? Skål - Williamborg (Bill) 13:38, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Exceptionally fine articles you are preparing. They cover two topics I am very interested in: old farms and old roads.
When you get these articles to where you're ready to post them up to the English Wikipedia, let me know. I'll be most happy to give them an English version copy edit. They needn't be perfect; I'm happy to take them the rest of the way since it helps me work on my Norwegian skills.
And the photos are exceptional! I've got to get back to Norway soon.
Skål - Williamborg (Bill) 13:44, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Bill, I am grateful for all the help I can get. So feel free to improve the articles. The English copy of Aurlandsdalen will be transferred in short time. --Frode Inge Helland 17:47, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Aurlandsdalen

I'll work on copy editing Aurlandsdalen a bit later today. It is a very good translation. Once I'm done, I'll ask you to take another look to make sure I haven't changed the meaning. Skål - Williamborg (Bill) 19:03, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Enough copy editing on Aurlandsdalen for one day. Skål - Williamborg (Bill) 22:43, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Hic!! --Frode Inge Helland 17:15, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Strip farming in Norway

And looking forward to the articles on strip farming. Tusen takk - Williamborg (Bill) 19:05, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Strip farming & "støl" versus "seter"

Excellent material on strip farming. These translations warrant English language articles. Well done.

As to "støl" versus "seter", that solves a mystery for me. I'd wondered what the distinction in usage is. Now I understand it is regional, as a result, presumably, of differences in dialects.

I’ll look at these more carefully after work.

Tusen takk - Williamborg (Bill) 13:31, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I fear these will wait another night or two. I must work this evening; it is the problem with being an engineer. Williamborg (Bill) 02:47, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
And a couple more nights. Probably not until the weekend. Tonight it must just be easy things—too much work. Williamborg (Bill) 03:46, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dairy farm

In the western Norway the word "støl" is more widely in use than "seter". --Frode Inge Helland 09:23, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Glad the artcles were useful for you. In Vestlandet there is an expression "å støle" which could be translated as working at the støl, and also used in the expression "de støler ennå in Norddal" which could be translated as "the støls (stølene) are still i use" contrary to being shut down and not in use any longer --Frode Inge Helland 14:04, 11 September 2006 (UTC).

Bill, where is your family farm?? --Frode Inge Helland 20:23, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

The direct family most recently from Lesja, & Vågå in Oppland on my Bestefar Ole’s side, and the family goes back to Ringsaker, Stange, & Elverum in Hedmark prior to that. The direct family sailed to Canada from your Bergen; one of my all time favorite small cities in the world. The Lesja picture in seter comes from a family farm; the building from the 1600s still stands there.
The entire family came to the U.S. to take advantage of fishing on the Great Lakes and 65 hectares (160 acres) of free, fertile, flat river bottom land grant land in Wisconsin & Minnesota in the 1850s & 1860s. First an uncle, then two of his sons, then his family, then my Bestefar’s immediate family, then all Bestefar’s brothers and sisters’ families, and on until there was no relative left except those too old to travel. City relatives even moved from Ålesund in Møre og Romsdal to Wisconsin. The one letter that survived indicates that they thought they’d died and gone to heaven when compared to trying to wrest a living out of upper Oppland.
My Bestemor’s family came from Evje og Hornnes, in Aust-Agder & Åseral in Vest-Agder in the 1870s. They were crofters (cotters), so the U.S. was clearly a better deal for them.
All of the family farms I've seen are beautiful and surrounded by mountain splendor. But I can see why they'd prefer the good land of the U.S. midwest.
Skål - Williamborg (Bill) 02:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
It is said that in fjords of western Norway, the fields are so steep that the can cultivated on both sides. --Frode Inge Helland 15:58, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chippewa Falls in Wisconsin

I would like to know if the building in Chippewa Falls in Wisconsin on the picture from Helland Brothers still do exist and if an image is available somewhere. So if you might give me any hint where to dig, i'd be grateful.

Never been to Chippewa Falls in Wisconsin myself; nice part of the state though. Myself, I live in Washington state, but still have a few relatives in Minnesota. I'll do some checking to see what I can find. Might take a while as they are older people who don’t email…
Skål - Williamborg (Bill) 02:34, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kirsten Bråten-Berg

Any chance you could take a look at this link (User_talk:David_Kernow#Kirsten_Br.C3.A5ten-Berg) & see if you can easily help him? David Kernow did a nice job of preparing an article on Kirsten Bråten-Berg. His request may be hard—if its not immediately straightforward, please let me know & we'll figure out another way. Skål - Williamborg (Bill) 03:06, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Imagine preparing an article on an artist you admired like Kirsten Bråten-Berg & then finding that you could actually reach out over the net and find out things almost first hand. What a wonderful thing you did for David. Very much appreciate your extra efforts. Tusen takk! Williamborg (Bill) 03:38, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
Well, I just made a phone call. No results prduced so far. --Frode Inge Helland 04:36, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re Kirsten Bråten-Berg

Hi Frode,
Thanks for your recent messages, especially the second!

Could'nt open the file. Received this message: Windows File Associations Windows Home Pages | This file in your language is not yet available. View the English version. Then I was redirected to an empty site.

I guess you mean Image:Kirsten Bråten Berg, accompanied Ale Møller - Heiemo og Nykkjen (opening verse).ogg linked via the {{listen}} template, yes...?  If so, sorry not to be able to help: I'm on a PC, so if I try to download the file I can redirect it to Winamp successfully (and/or save to disk); if I click on the "play in browser" link supplied by the template, I'm taken to the (rudimentary) JOrbisPlayer.php page (http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php) where the file then starts playing – perhaps the problem you're experiencing is because it (appears to) use/s Java...?

...I have just talket to Kirsten. She was in Stavanger and busy, but said she would send me the text to Heiemo and the Water Sprite when she gets back tomorrow.

Now this is a tad more exciting – thanks for your work!  First, please include my thanks if/when you next communicate; and if you do, do you think she'd be interested to respond to any of the following...?:

  • Whether or not her surname includes a hyphen – there seems to be conflicting evidence;
  • (Other) errors, inaccuracies and/or major omissions from her article (excepting the obvious empty "Select discography" section which I intend to populate or perhaps expand if other folk begin first);
  • I really enjoy Heiemo og Nykkjen, but perhaps Kirsten would prefer to be represented by a different audio example...?;
  • I was thinking of uploading and including a "fair use" portrait photo in the article (e.g. the one on the New Albion Records external link, otherwise maybe http://test.kulturtorget.no/images/www/user/464/2004_10517.jpg) but have hesitated as Wikipedia's "fair use" management/policy/acceptability seems to be in flux at present. If Kirsten is happy for such a picture to appear in her article, perhaps she might be able to bypass "fair use" by indicating which she'd prefer and giving her approval for it to appear...?  (I realise she may not be in a position to do so, but...);
  • Back to Heiemo og Nykkjen but away from Wikipedia, I'd begun transcribing the version for voice and synthesizer (from which the audio extract is taken) to create a version for voice/s and (wordless) choir; perhaps she might give her approval and any approval I might need if I were to post the resulting score to a site such as http://www.sibeliusmusic.com...?

I appreciate that any/all the above may be inappropriate/asking too much/etc of you and/or Kirsten; as I confessed to Bill, I'm just being opportunistic!
With best wishes and thanks for your interest and input, David Kernow 16:46, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

David, I rexceived this letter when I arrived Bergen:

Dette må du nok snakke med Grappa music , Helge Westby om
Helsing
Kirsten B.Berg

In Norwegian: I think you have to talk to Grappa Music, Helge Westby, about this.

The answer is not very encouraging. I will call him, but Grappa Music will maybe be reserved in matters which include copyrights.

Thanks for this update, Frode!  I assume Kirsten's response is re arranging the music; please don't feel the need to go to any great lengths over it, as it's merely my opportunism. Did Kirsten include a (pointer to a) translation of the lyrics...?  Thanks again for your networking, David (talk) 02:46, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Dave, No, the above citation was all. But I will call Grappa Music. If you could give me a link to the song, I could try write it down and translate it. I take for granted that copy rights will not be violated by presenting the text in WP. --Frode Inge Helland 06:10, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps Kirsten means we can obtain a translation from Grappa Music. If not, I could email you a low-quality mp3 of the song; the only links to it that I've found are to excerpts. It's ten verses each of four lines, although I think the second line in every verse is identical (in typical folksong style!). I wasn't planning on including the lyrics to the entire song on Wikipedia, although if it is a traditional folksong, this shouldn't be a problem. Yours, David (talk) 17:16, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Dave, I just received this e-mail from Kirsten:
Det går jo an å kjøpe plata Min Kvedarlund, der er teksten i heftet! Får så mange slike førespurnader, og har ikkje tid til å skrive ned dette. Grappa kan sikkert sende eit ex.
Kirsten Bråten Berg
In Norwegian:
"It is as well possible to buy my CD Min Kvedarlund, where the text is enclosed in the cover. I get so many requests like this so do not have time to write it down. Grappa may possibly send a copy of the text.
Kirsten Bråten Berg."
This might not be a dead end after all.
Frode
No, hopefully not; I'm happy for Kirsten's sake that her music is so popular. I'm also happy to purchase the CD she mentions and, if it doesn't carry a translation of the song, send the Norwegian onto yourself – what do you think...?  Regards, David (talk) 01:55, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
PS It would seem from her message that Kirsten's surname is "Bråten Berg", i.e. without the hyphen, so will amend the article accordingly.

David, I called Grappa Music. Helge Westby was not accessible at present, so I will call back 1300 (Norw. time). I also sent Helge Westby an e-mail, asking for the text. I also permitted myself to ask for permission for you to insert a short sound file as an illustration in the article. To morrow I am facing approximately seven hours driving back to Ålesund. Si if I get my hands on the text, it may still take some time. --Frode Inge Helland 07:34, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

David, this e-mail from Grappa Music has arrived today:

"Jeg sender deg teksten pr. post i dag.

Den finnes i hefte på platen.

Med vennlig hilsen

Helge Westbye

Grappa Musikkforlag as Akersgaten 7 0158 Oslo

Tlf.: +47 23 35 80 00 Faks: +47 23 35 80 01 Mob : +47 90 55 52 58 e-mail: helge@grappa.no

www.grappa.no

www.grappa.musikkonline.no"

In english:

"I send you the text by mail today.

There is text enclosed in the cover.

Best regards from

Helge Westbye

rappa Musikkforlag as Akersgaten 7 0158 Oslo

Tlf.: +47 23 35 80 00 Faks: +47 23 35 80 01 Mob : +47 90 55 52 58 e-mail: helge@grappa.no

www.grappa.no

www.grappa.musikkonline.no"


I'll have it when I'm back in Ålesund.

Frode

Great! – but please take your time; if you're making that journey on that groovy bike of yours, I guess you might have a sore backside as well as being tired... Yours, David (talk) 18:33, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Marvin Helland & Chippewa Falls

Received this and several other things today by email. If you want to email me ( bay_o_wulf@ yahoo.com ) I'd be happy to email what I get, including the email addresses from the folks who contacted me) to you. Note that I put a space into my address so that it is hard to "harvest" by computer spam mailers.

Subject: Marvin Helland

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 02:38:24 EST

Friends,

Today I attended a memorial service for Marvin Helland. Marvin was the 85 year old son of Knute Helland of Norway who came to the US in 1903. Knute and his brother, Gunnar, established the Helland Bros. music store in Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin. They were famous for their Hardanger fiddle making and for their skiing. Knute died following surgery when Marvin was only 2 years old. Marvin's mother, Nellie, remarried 5 years later and moved to Oregon with her new husband and 2 sons. Marvin grew up not knowing his heritage. Several of you on the list have helped me acquire information about the Hellands. Marvin was proud to learn of his ancestry. Thanks to all of you who have helped so often. I will continue with my writing project about the Hellands.

Holt

Salem, Oregon

Skål - Williamborg (Bill) 20:10, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Bill, I corresponded intensely with Lew Holt after my web site was made, but it ceased late in 2003. I asked him to look for Hellands in the US. The name is very common among Norwegian descendants, due to about ten places in Norway called Helland (suppusedly derived from old norw. heilagr land). It was a slingshot, but he looked up in the telephone directory and found one in his hometown, Salem Oregon. It was Marvin Helland, the son of Knut Helland - the needle in the haystack - living just 2 miles away. The picture in the stub Helland Brothers originates from Marvin.

But I do not know the address in Wisconsin. I have met Marvins two nieces. They visited me in Ålesund two years ago. I do not know their address. They wrote me a letter, but by some accident it disappeared before it was opened. --Frode Inge Helland 07:47, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Eau Claire, about 25 miles from Chippewa Falls

I also received this today:

Hello, I am from Eau Claire, about 25 miles from Chippewa Falls. I believe the building still exhits. There is a Chippewa Falls Historical Society, that can probably tell you something about it. If we can get an exact address, I could drive over and take a picture of it.

maryellen and bill

If you happen to have an address, we can ask them. Skål - Williamborg (Bill) 20:16, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your web site

A hardingfele
Enlarge
A hardingfele

And one sent me material that has to have come from Frode Inge Helland's webstie, as that gentlemen comes from Ålesund, Norge. Very nice site! Williamborg (Bill) 20:25, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Bill, the site is under reconstruction here: http://www.internettforlaget.no/helland/index.htm --Frode Inge Helland 07:50, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Sent several emails to the FIHelland email address. Coming from W.i.borg ... Please let me know if you don't see them. Williamborg (Bill) 20:10, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Got your email. Also found the answer to one of my questions in the response email (see your excellent photo to right). Williamborg (Bill) 03:03, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re Kirsten Bråten Berg text

Arived Ålesund. The text has arrived also. It's all up to me now.--Frode Inge Helland 15:23, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Take your time! – and at least rest that backside of yours if it was sitting on a bike for seven hours!
Best wishes, David Kernow (talk) 22:12, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I did not go by motorcycle this time (I have sold my VX-800 and bought a motorscooter Yamaha Majesty 400, half the motor but doubled the fun)and it rained heavily most of the time. :o) --Frode Inge Helland 05:58, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

David, have just sent the translation to Kirsten Bråten Berg. This was really tricky, old dialect...
...I sent it to you as soon as she okeys it. --Frode Inge Helland 19:33, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, Frode; I hope it wasn't as tricky as (say) some text in Anglo-Saxon "Olde Englisc" given to a native speaker of English – no, that would be virtually impossible!!  I also hope Kirsten doesn't mind okaying it. Trust this reaches you feeling dry, David (talk) 01:16, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
David, Kirsten okeyed the content as mor or less covering the story. May be others should look into it also. But the use you will have to discuss with her.
Her e-mail address is: kkberg@online.no
Helge Westbye (Grappa Music):helge@grappa.no
Grappa Musikkforlag as: www.grappa.musikkonline.no www.grappa.no
--Frode Inge Helland 05:36, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Update

Hi again Frode,
I'm glad Kirsten approved the story, but did you or she email me a copy of it...?  If so, either it never arrived or maybe I didn't spot that it had been mistakenly marked as spam... Anyway, if you (still) have a copy, please send again, otherwise do I need to contact Kirsten...? &bsp;Hope you are well, David (talk) 08:50, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Dave, I sent i through Bill. May be something went astray. Give me youe e-mail address and I will send it directly to you.

fihellan@online.no

--Frode Inge Helland 12:30, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Khazars, the Caspian Sea and mercenaries

You wrote about the article titled Khazars:

Bill What is the significance of the last sentence in this paragraph in the article: "Khazar armies were led by the Khagan Bek and commanded by subordinate officers known as tarkhans. A famous tarkhan referred to in Arab sources as Ras or as Tarkhan led an invasion of Armenia in 758. The army included regiments of Muslim auxiliaries known as Arsiyah, of Khwarezmian or Alan extraction, who were quite influential. These regiments were exempt from campaigning against their fellow Muslims. Early Russian sources sometimes referred to the city of Khazaran (across the Volga River from Atil) as Khvalisy and the Khazar (Caspian) sea as Khvaliskoye. According to some scholars such as Omeljan Pritsak, these terms were East Slavic versions of "Khwarezmian" and referred to these mercenaries." --Frode Inge Helland 06:20, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I think this simply means that this is an Eastern Slavic version of the word "Khwarezmian" in the Khwarezmian language. Probably a relatively insignificant comment; mostly to help cross reference between works in different languages. But just to be sure, one needs to research.
Unfortunately (& also fortunately) my daughter is off in grad school studying linguistics with a focus on Slavic languages & culture; I suspect she has most of my Slavic histories, since I can't find any left in my library here. I'll check with her when we next talk.
And one of the folks with whom I work is from Kazakhstan; I'll ask her next week as well. Skål - Williamborg (Bill) 20:13, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Splendid, Bill! I cannot keep the line whitout understanding ist meaning. Thank you so far. --Frode Inge Helland 21:41, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Both opinions agreed. So with the caution that neither is an expert in the field, you can assume that this sentence means that this is an Eastern Slavic version of the word "Khwarezmian" in the Khwarezmian language. Skaal - Williamborg (Bill) 23:03, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sending Dave his translation

First an apology for not advising Dave you'd sent me the material. My computer is down (seriously hacked and haven't yet replaced it). I'm using others machines and don't have access to my normal email history - so don't have the email you sent me.

But I don't have his email address, so was going to contact him for his email address via his Wiki page. Suggest you contact Dave directly via Wiki and advise him you have it if he'll share his email.

Hope to be back to Wiki soon - Williamborg (Bill) 22:57, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah, I see you asked for his email address and he didn't respond. You might just post the translation on his discussion page. Skaal - Williamborg (Bill) 23:00, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] alternate email

If you have trouble converting, you can email me at Bay_o_wulf @ yahoo.com. I can still get mail that way and can convert from the spread sheet to post up. Skaal - Williamborg (Bill) 00:41, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Note that I added spaces so the email address doesn't get harvested. You'll have to delete them if you use the address. Williamborg (Bill) 00:42, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Try my email at w.i.borg . It works now, but I've lost the older history. Williamborg (Bill) 05:48, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
What's the rest of the address? ( I am in Bergen and have no access to my mailbox until tuesday.) --Frode Inge Helland 22:47, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Maybe it would be better if you sent me an empty letter so I could answer it with an attach the file containing the translations and comments. --Frode Inge Helland 23:14, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Heiemo og nykkjen

Finally got my computer back up and working so I could retrieve your old email. Here is your translation in Wiki friendly format. I added my cut at the translation below as well; your comment on that requested/welcomed. Lovely folk song (or folk style song)... Skål - Williamborg (Bill) 05:00, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Heiemo og nykkjen Heiemo and the Water Spirit
Original text Translation Comments to translation
Heiemo kvad, det song i li. Heiemo sang his poem, it was singing in the hillside Kvad = solemn poem, old form. It was singing, It may be the nature singing back
vakna dikko ædelege drengje - wake up you noble youngsters - Drengje = young men
Det høyrde nykkjen, på havet skrid, The Water spirt heard it, striding on the sea, Skrida = a solemn way of walking
For de hev sove tidi for lengje. Because you now have overslept.
Heiemo kvad, det song i lund Heiemo sang his poem, it was singing in the hillside
Det høyrde nykkjen, den hei'inghund The Water spirit heard it, the pagean dog.
Nykkjen tala til styringsmann: The Water spirit spoke to his helmsman:
Du styre mitt skip på kristne land! You steer my ship upon christian land!
Eg vil meg på kristne land gå, I will go upon christian land,
Den vene jomfruva vil eg få. the beautiful maid I will have. Jomfru = virgin, young girl
Så gjeng han seg i stova inn He then enters his house Stove = small country house. In other cases it may be read as living room.
med håge hatt og blomekinn with high hat and rose cheek
Nykkjen han dansa, og Heiemo kvad, The Water spirit danced and Heiemo sang his poem
det gledde alt folket i stogunne var it pleased all folks in the houses Stogunne may be plural for stogu = stove = small farm house.
No må kvor gange heim til seg, Now every one has to go to his own home,
Heiemo tek eg på skipet med meg. Heiemo I bring with me on the ship.
Heiemo, Heiemo, still di harm, Heiemo, Heiemo, quiet your wrath, Harm, may be anger is the best translation.
du sku sove på nykkjens arm. you should sleep on water spirit's arm.
Ho stakk til nykkjen i holamot, She stabbed the water spirit in his chest,
odden han rann i hjarterot the nail ran into the root of his heart.
Her ligg du, nykkjen, fyr ravn og hund Here you lay, naked to raven and dog
enno hev eg min kvedarlund. Still I have my singing need. Kvedartrong, a desire for singing, a need and joy of singing. Singing hard to hold back.
I finally got Daves e-mail address and sent him an extended table in doc. format, where I included a smoother translation by Finn Bjørklid. --Frode Inge Helland 06:36, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Heiemo og nykkjen ( Heiemo and the Water Spirit ) - 2

An alternate translation, with comments, follows:

Heiemo og nykkjen (Heiemo and the Water Spirit)
Original text Translation Comments on the translation
Heiemo kvad, det song i li. Heiemo sang her poem, the hillsides sang back Kvad = solemn poem, old form. (Heiemo must be a beautiful young woman with a lovely voice)
vakna dikko ædelege drengje "Wake up you noble youngsters" Drengje = young men — Heiemo's words in quotes...
Det høyrde nykkjen, på havet skrid, The Water spirit heard it, striding on the sea, Skrida = a solemn way of walking
For de hev sove tidi for lengje. "Because you now have overslept."
Heiemo kvad, det song i lund Heiemo sang her poem, the woods sang back
Det høyrde nykkjen, den hei'inghund The Water spirit heard it, that hound of hell. Perhaps that is hound of hell rather than pagan dog?
Nykkjen tala til styringsmann: The Water spirit spoke to his helmsman:
Du styre mitt skip på kristne land! Steer my ship to the Christian land!
Eg vil meg på kristne land gå, I will go upon Christian land,
Den vene jomfruva vil eg få. This beautiful maid I shall have. Jomfru = virgin, young girl
Så gjeng han seg i stova inn He then entered into the house Stove = small country house. In other cases it may be read as living room.
med håge hatt og blomekinn with high hat and rosy cheeks
Nykkjen han dansa, og Heiemo kvad, The Water spirit danced and Heiemo sang her poem
det gledde alt folket i stogunne var It pleased all the folks in the houses Stogunne may be plural for stogu = stove = small farm house.
No må kvor gange heim til seg, Now it is time for everyone to go home,
Heiemo tek eg på skipet med meg. I will take Heiemo with me on the ship.
Heiemo, Heiemo, still di harm, Heiemo, Heiemo, quiet your sorrow, Harm (poetic) = grief, anger, sorrow, indignation
du sku sove på nykkjens arm. you shall sleep in the arms of the water spirit.
Ho stakk til nykkjen i holamot, She stabbed the water spirit in his chest,
odden han rann i hjarterot The knife ran into the root of his heart. odd = knife or sword
Her ligg du, nykkjen, fyr ravn og hund "Here you lay, naked to raven and dog" (approaches a kenning) — "naked to the raven" is a symbol of death
enno hev eg min kvedarlund. "Still I have my need to sing." Kvedartrong, a desire for singing, a need and joy of singing. Singing hard to hold back.

[edit] Me-Åkerneset was deleted

You wrote in User talk:Will Pittenger:

There is nothing in the article that is not completely true. The source is a book on the depopulated farms in the inner Storfjord, by Zacharias Ansok, based on interviews with still living farmers. It lays in a area that now is the UN list on World Heritage. I am aware that the translation may be clumsy, but the subject is of considerable cultural interest. (see also Ytste Skotet, Havretunet and Agatunet)The farms mentioned is under special protection of the national authorities. I therefore suggest you read more closely what I wrote above and that the tag shold be removed, as it is of considerable interest to thousands of Norwegian descendants living all over US.--Frode Inge Helland 10:44, 1 December 2006

Sorry I missed your note. I've been traveling on business out of the range of internet for the past week and will be out again for the next couple of weeks. This is a risk of being an engineer - there are still places in the world where there is only limited or quite expensive internet access. But I will be able to communicate fairly easily via internet until December 7th, and can get involved a little.

I see that your article on Me-Åkerneset has been deleted already. There are deletionists; people on the Wikipedia who diligently work to delete material they think shouldn’t be here. Many of them have contributed little and spend much of their time looking for things they can delete. Although I agree that there is much weak material that deserves deletion, some of them quite overdo deletions. But one must make a choice between adding new material and reviewing the WP:AfD pages to help defend articles; I favor those who attempt to add new material.

If you still have a draft of the article you wrote on Me-Åkerneset, please post it on my talk page or at User_talk:Williamborg/sandbox3#Me-.C3.85kerneset (one of my sandboxes) and I'll see what we can do to make it warrant retention in a way that is so obvious that we can stand the challenge….

Skål - Williamborg (Bill) 18:22, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Bill, this reminds me og the gestapist releasing the safety mechanism on their Lugers when the heard the word "culture". I geuess that Will Pittenger was more egager to rmove my comments on his attitude than the article itself. --Frode Inge Helland 20:39, 2 December 2006 (UTC)SKÅL!
Bill, I can't see the article has been deletede at all, and that Will Pittenger is completely innocent. --Frode Inge Helland 20:43, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Can you link the article. I can't find it... Takk - Williamborg (Bill) 20:54, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Got it (Tooks me a while to look under Me-Åkernes. ;)). I'll take a look at it (later this weekend - got to do some work & pay some bills) and see what we can do to make it clearly meet the notability criteria.
As to commenting on other Wikipedia editor's attitudes, I've found getting into such disputes with other Wikipedia editors is like wrestling with a pig. You get dirty and exhausted and the pig enjoys the experience. So I focus on fixing wikipolicies and on fixing articles...
Skål - Williamborg (Bill) 20:55, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I',m driving :o))--Frode Inge Helland 22:18, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
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