User talk:Fretlisa

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[edit] Escalante

Thanks for your info on Joe. Rest assured, I definitely am on the pro-Joe side of the debate here. I think the whole accusation thing is pretty silly, especially considering that it's arguments over about a half dozen songs written 25 years ago being claimed by guys that then quit the band & didn't say peep about it for years. When I read the old versions of the Vandals/Joe articles I found there was a edit/vandalism war going on about this between people who are clearly big fans of the "original" (Stevo/Jan) lineup and people who are more inclined towards the post-1990 lineup. I read the stuff on the "scandal" site and concluded that it was definitely biased and not suited for reference on Wikipedia. I decided to rewrite the articles in a way that sounded neutral and incorporated the band's 25+ year history rather than focusing just on the first few years. This led to quite a few debates on the Vandals page about the copyright accusations, & every time I tried to reduce their presence in the article somebody would come back in insisting that they be included. What we wound up with was the best version I could come up with that acknowledged that the accusations happened, what they were about and what the conclusion was. Since the only citable reference I could find was the LA Times article, I decided to use that as a reference. There's not much published reference material on this stuff.

I definitely want to include a lot of what you added in your last edit. It just raised some issues of bias/citation and formatting that I didn't have time to thoroughly revise at the moment, so I reverted it until I could come back to it. One of the problems I have is that I couldn't find much biographical info about Joe, and Wikipedia is pretty strict about providing references and citations to info included in biographies of living persons, because of the potential for libel. A lot of what you said sounds perfectly reasonable, I just need to look at it again and figure out how to re-phrase it in a way that will be acceptable to everyone and follow the Wiki guidelines. It would help me a lot if you could provide some links or references that I could cite. Anything would be helpful: an online biography, screen credits, book, magazine article, whatever. The better referenced the biography is, the more complete picture we can paint of Joe and it can focus more on his accomplishments than the "scandals." I definitely want to make this a more well-rounded biography, and I welcome your contributions, but in the recent rounds of edits to the Vandals & Joe articles I've been the only one taking the onus of providing references/citations so I feel like I should keep up with that in order to keep the bio within Wiki's guidelines. Seaworldpunk 23:42, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanx! I used to have some magazine interviews w/ Joe, the Vandals, & Kung Fu staff that I'm digging around for, but they seem to have vanished with time & moving. Still looking, though! Seaworldpunk 21:17, 11 December 2006 (UTC)