Talk:Freestyle music
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I think that there are two types of freestyling that need to be addressed here. First is freestyle as a genre of music, which the entry addresses. The second that should be covered is Freestyling as an improvisational form of hip hop. This is the type that this baked lass refers to in her "freestyle" (I doubt she remembers writing it). I found the freestyle entry by following a link from the the wikipedia entry about the rapper Jin. Just to clear up confusion I think that both definitions of freestyle should be covered. Thank you.
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[edit] Sixty five paragraphs on the mystery behind the name?
There is no mystery behind how freestyle got its name. It came from Tony Butler's band. Period. The section of this article that suggests confusion and offers other origins is totally bogus. Eli lilly 03:14, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] What about Stevie B in Hitlist?
To me Stevie B always seemed to be one of the Top10 Artists of Latin Freestyle next to Artists like Johnny O. Am I false?
--213.23.134.62 20:21, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
i think the hitlist needs an overhaul and needs to consult some charts, and reference them so that we can be a bit more objective about it. --Yoasif 22:55, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
Charts (Billboard charts etc.) themselves don't necessarily show the impact, especially in underground genres like freestyle, which from my prospective was somewhat of a word of mouth genre. Not to demean big stars from smaller ones, but Jimi Hendrix had a huge impact on music but technically he was a one-hit wonder. --Maya Levy 19 January 2006
Edited the hitlist. Infohunter 00:48, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
- No you removed half the list arbitrarily. Until the time someone actually backs up artist addition/removal based on chart placement, I will revert to this consensus version of the list. ALKIVAR™
01:05, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
I agree about the hit list. It's very random. Also "Together Forever" by Lisette Melendez is credited by many for reviving freestyle music in the 90s and was a big hit. Much more representive of freestyle music in this article than "Time Passes By". So I'm removing "Time Passes By" because of duplicate entry. --Bigplankton 21:28, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
"Together Forever" spent 10 weeks at the top of New York Dance charts. [1] --Bigplankton 21:43, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
I added Corina's "Temptation" to the list because it peaked at #12 on Billboard Hot 100 and was a number #1 dance hit. [2]--Bigplankton 21:50, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] The Miami section is a hodge podge of inacurracies
Mostly I want to adress that I think I've read that before from a copyrighted Pretty Tony bio. I knew back then that it was totally inacurrate, so its inclusion here is a double whammy. Instead of rewriting it, I wanted to draw attention to the fact that this might be copyrighted work.
The biggest error of all is it's almost universally accepted that them genre's name came about due to Debbie Deb, and everything else fell in its path (making the entre entry incorrect!). Basically, Pretty Tony made Electro, and had the idea for Debbie to sing on a track rather than use the rap/vocoder technique of most Electro producers. This was in 1983. She just happened to be hispanic, which became the target audience as a result. Almost immediatly after, Tony had hits as the group Freestyle, and people on the receiving end of the marketing mixed up which was which. The reason why they call the genre freestyle is because when DJ's would ask who does that "When I Hear Music" song, they said "Freestyle" (meaning Pretty Tony and his singer).
Examples of the errors in the text:
"Pretty Tony, a.k.a. Tony Butler, actually first made electro, then bass and finally freestyle."
1.) This cannot be right for several reasons; most notably, he never exactly made Bass music. He did graft some bass onto one of his unreleased songs when they decided to finally release it in 1989. He was in jail for years when Bass music developed and evolved.
2.) Depending on how you define Freestyle here, it can be said his first hit record in 1983 was Freestyle. His Electro hits came later. The songs that predate Debbie Deb are virtually unknown outside South Florida, so I'm not exactly adressing these (Christmas Rock, Freestyle Express, Summer Delight - many would argue that those songs are barely Electro as they are built half on live instruments rather than electronics).
Technically, he chronologically made "Proto-Freestyle", Electro, and finally, made a lame attempt to appeal to the bass audience by grafting bass onto an old song. It ended up on his one and only forgotten album (actually, a compilation of old hits passed off as his debut album years after the songs on it hit). Actual freestyle music is anything that copied Debbie Deb, and to a lesser degree, Shannon (she was black, not hispanic, and marketed partly to an Italo Disco crowd).
"He had a one man group called Freestyle"
There was more than just Tony in the group.
"his success would begin in 1983 with the hit single 'Fix it in the Mix'"
That came out in 1984 (Music Specialists MSI-104, the fourth on the label), a year after Debbie Deb's "When I Hear Music"
"and later that year a strong showing with artist Debbie Deb singing "When I Hear Music"."
That came out in 1983 (Jam Packed JPI-101, the first on the label), a year before almost everything cited here.
"Joining him in early 1984 New York rapper TK Rodriguez fronted the group Fastlane and would release the single 'Young Ladies' Hip hop's first southern track. That year TK introduced Pretty Tony to Arthur Baker, Kurtis Blow and Afrika Bambataa..."
The first rap song from Miami came out in 1979 (Xanadu & Sweet Lady), well before any of the mentioned artists broke through.
"Rodriguez' introduction of freestyle singer Trinere would become Butler's most successful artist and production."
I'm not exactly sure of the chart positions, but Trinere had a much much smaller impact than Debbie Deb. When I Hear Music and Lookout Weekend are still massive, whereas "They're Playing Our Song" or "How Can We be Wrong" are virtually unknown now.
Again, I would normally just make corrections, but the possibility of it being copyrighted material anyway is something I don't want to touch, but more so, my fixing these might negate the remainder of the entry!
Let's get things clear: Debbie Deb IS freestyle as much as Trinere and Connie, etc. Tony is seen in some circles as bieng a hybrid artist of both genres. Early freestyle and electro were virtually indistinguishable until the break of the Shannon era.
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- Joe, I know that is you, so just get up in there and fix it in the mix! If it's copyrighted material it shouldn't appear here anyways. Eli lilly 18:02, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] ALISHA
Alisha, One of the first Freetyle Divas...Baby Talk, All Night Passion, Too Turned On http//:www.alishafans.com
[edit] Additional influences
Although it's not been mentioned, glam rock was a big influence on Miami Freestyle. For example, Exposé's extended club mix of "Let Me Be The One" had their original song extended by adding the instrumental intro to Garry Glitter's "Baby, Please Don't Go." It appears to have been merely added, not copied.It was an extended intro, so they didn't even have to lengthen it. The sort of glammy-funk that got called "disco" in the early days such as Hello's "New York Groove", and had proceeded from the original glam, was also an influence. That had a basic four on the floor thump plus a basic [son*] clavé "shave and a haircut" going through the entire song. The drum-based hits of the late Cozy Powell also were somewhat influential. (*=edit for clarity) JBDay 17:38, 5 September 2006 (UTC)JBDay
[edit] Miami vs New York
Good article and yes i agree, New York seem more "true" and less poppy. Where was Saffire from? I like the new york stuff better than that soft miami sound.--Halaqah 20:36, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Did u know
In the Caribbean FreeStyle was called Disco, it was big there i was told.--Halaqah 20:45, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
