Talk:Fred Dibnah

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[edit] more encyclopaedic

Page needs rewriting in a more encyclopaedic manner god bless yer mate kevin liverpool

I agree. The second paragraph in the biography section is too informal and far from neutral. RicDod 17:54, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bolton, Lancashire

I don't think the "(now in Greater Manchester)" is necessary. I would have thought that Fred Dibnah would have been one of the last people to recognise Bolton as part of Greater Manchester. It would be always be Bolton, Lancashire to him. Bolton will always be part of the historic county of Lancashire so this is not an incorrect statement. Quoting the modern administrative area is no more important that giving the postcode area. --jmb 22:29, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Reverted. Totally inappropriate. Even now Bolton is hardly ever referred to as being in GM. Lancsalot 07:35, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, there seems to be some people going around adding references to GM all over the place. Not sure if it a propaganda exercise by some supporters of GM (are there any supporters?) or just some do-gooders. It was bad enough putting Samuel Crompton as being from GM but I think Fred Dibnah would turn in his grave at the suggestion! --jmb 07:51, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't aware it had any supporters until I came on here! Lancsalot 08:02, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

While it may not be popular, and I happen to agree with you on Fred's opinion, Bolton is now part of Greater Manchester. Someone can be stated to have been born there when it was Lancashire, but it needs to be made clear in the same way as someone from Tyne & Wear could have been born in County Durham or Northumberland (also Humberside v-a-v East Yorkshire or Lincolnshire). To put that it's now in GM is, in my opinion, a fair compromise. Remember, this is an encyclopedia, not a nostalgia site. --lawsonrob

This is rubbish, and who mentioned any lord lieutenancy??? Bolton is in Greater Manchester and has been since 1974. Refer to the Lancashire County Council's own map if you don't believe me Council map page. Also, metropolitan boroughs do not exist within adminstrative counties.

Better map (approved by the Queen) here. The boundaries of the county palatine have never been changed. Will revert tomorrow if no one else does. Lancsalot 19:07, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

This is an old debate, which for better or worse, is resolved in the Wikipedia:Naming conventions (places). After many, many, many, many debates, it was deemed that we should use the formulation stipulted there.... Bolton is in Greater Manchester - to assert otherwise goes against the conventions, and also against WP:V. I'm sure that William Wallace would turn in his grave if he knew that England was united with Scotland - but that does not mean it is not true!

It is quite fair in this instance to say that Bolton is now in Greater Manchester, so long as (being that this is a biographical article about someone born pre-1974) it is merely an afternote. Please be mindful of these guidelines. Hope that helps somewhat. Jhamez84 19:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks J, I'm happy with your amend to the main page, and it's good to get an insight from someone who knows the rules of Wikipedia. Let's see if other contributors to this page can be quite so grown up about it. --lawsonrob

Just to clarify however, I am not asserting that Fred was born in Greater Manchester - he clearly was not, and was born in Bolton, Lancs. However, an afternote (if not in the opening line, then in the main text) about Bolton now forming part of Greater Manchester is quite allowed as it is verifiable. Jhamez84 18:10, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

It seems a reasonable compromise to have some sort of note like that. By the way, someone above mentioned William Wallace. I hope that by the same principle that "now part of the United Kingdom" is going to be added after Scotland :=}

I do wonder what the future is for GM. There seem to be very few functions left and there will be even less when the police force is reorganised. Probably the fire and ambulance will also be reorganised into larger units as seems inevitable. --jmb 20:10, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

If you were to read the Scotland article, it does indeed say that it forms part of the UK. GM police are not expected to be revamped with the (possible) future Police organisations. Incidently, GM is used for more official fuctions than historic Lancashire. Jhamez84 20:15, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

The Bolton article mentions GM and that's why we have internal links. We don't need to duplicate the info here. Re. the future of GM - the gov is expected to announce abolition of county councils this autumn. This is likely to be accompanied by a reorganisation of ceremonial counties with GM going the way of Humberside and Cleveland. At which point all the wiki-links to GM would have to be replaced by Lancashire/Cheshire as per current naming conventions. Lancsalot 20:46, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

When and if. You'd have to take that to the wider editting community and through the formal channels also, rather than decide to edit articles based on a solo agenda. In the meantime, just kindly edit within the guidelines. Jhamez84 21:11, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I find it rather sad that some people seem to get such pleasure from changing the place of birth of someone now deceased who was born in Bolton when there was no disputing that it was part of Lancashire, spent most of their life in Bolton whilst there was no disputing that it was still in Lanashire and would always have considered themself to be a Lancastrian. It is difficult to understand why they are so persistent. --jmb 19:06, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

They're persistent because the current name of the area is the correct one under Wiki rules and they feel as strongly about that as you plainly do about the other side of the debate. You have played, quite fairly, as active a role in this debate as anyone else on either side. Regardless of that, however, it's been settled in its current form for over two months now, shouldn't we just let it lie? --lawsonrob 21:56, 7 September 2006

[edit] Engineer or Back Street Mechanic

"Engineer" has been added to his description. I seem to remember from the TV programme on Tuesday that he proudly used the title "back-street mechanic"? Wouldn't this be more apt? --jmb 09:30, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Why not add that into the quotes section? User:lawsonrob