Talk:Frédéric Chopin

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Archives of previous discussions (oldest first): /Archive 1 · /Archive 2

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Contents 1 Students of Chopin 2 Links to important resources and recordings 3 Edits 4 Chopin and Romanticism 5 The First Recording Ever 6 Nationality 7 Contradiction

[edit] Students of Chopin

It would be great if there could be a section listing the students of Chopin, perhaps with thumbnail biographies (when available). --Kosboot 17:49, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

There aren't many of them, and few (if any) achieved much fame. The best of them was reputed to be Karl Filtsch, who died young. Kullak and Mikuli achieved some fame, mainly as editors of the music of Chopin. Alkan may have been a pupil (or just a friend) of his.

[edit] Links to important resources and recordings

I put some order on the jungle of links containing commercial sites (one had links to amazon and sheet music to purchase online except a brief biography; one other was apparently a bank site...!), and sites not available. I've putted a couple of < !-- -- > comments to verify two sites which were not available at moment. I'd also suggest to link to sites which copyrights and credits are very clear (the MIDI site already linked seems to be not a regular site: MIDI files should be credited). I'll check a further control in the next days. Alegreen 07:08, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Edits

Isn't "widely regarded.." as "famous" redundant? Fame encompasses wide regards. How about "famously regarded" - ? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 166.70.188.25 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Chopin and Romanticism

I deleted some of the citation needed and original research markings. It was very cluttered, but maybe that section oughta be removed altogether, unless we can get some facts to back it up. ~~ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by O Violinista (talk • contribs) 19:52, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] The First Recording Ever

Here is a link to the recording: http://media.putfile.com/Chopin-playing-the-minute-waltz-1840 In this article there was no mention of the fact that the first intentional audio recording ever made was that of Frédéric Chopin playing the minute waltz. Isn't anyone aware of this? It was in 1840 and the recording was made at the home of George Sand using a glass cylinder covered with the soot from a candle which was scratched by a pin connected to a diaphragm. The cylinder was made to rotate by the mechanism of a clock and the device was only able to record one minutes worth. The recording is remarkable and due to the light action of the piano, much lighter than todays pianos, Chopin was able to play extremely fluently and at the end of the piece the sound of a man laughing can be heard, whether it be Chopin himself or the inventor of the device or someone else isn't known. The man who invented the device was able to record the performance but was unable to play the recording once made and therefore was unable to sell the idea. But knowing what he had done was significant he documented the event and preserved it. Many years later a box with the device and documentation was discovered and with modern techniques and the use of a computer, a laser, and a sinclavier, the historic recording was realized and can be heard. It has lots of hiss which one would expect and some popping sounds but aside from that it is utterly astounding. The piano has a good tone and the playing is magnificent. I have searched the web for information on this but have come up with nothing. My information comes from a magazine which is no longer in publication called 'Classic CD' magazine which had an article, the gist of which I have just reported, and a CD of the recording (XOHA CDO10491). Isn't it amazing to discover that the first intentional audio recording ever made was not someone saying "Testing - testing 1,2,3" but this wonderful historic performance of Chopin? (scottlesbme@yahoo.com)Scottlesbme 22:28, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard of this story, so I wouldn't know if it were true. Some 19th century composers and pianists have been recorded however, on piano rolls. Whether Chopin is among them I don't know. mensch • t 22:40, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I've also never heard this story. That this could happen 38 years before Edison's invention strains my credulity a bit. Another minor problem is that Chopin didn't write the "minute" waltz until 1847, and that's considered to be a reliable date (the manuscript exists; it's in the Royal College of Music Library in London). What company published that CD? "XOHA" wouldn't be an anagram for "HOAX", now, would it be? Antandrus (talk) 23:14, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Maybe that article was published in the 1 April edition of the magazine. Or, if it is indeed true that, in order to fit it into the capacity of the recording device, Chopin "magnificently" performed in a minute a piece that usually takes closer to two minutes to perform, it might explain why the Minute Waltz is so named. Given the huge amount of information out there about Chopin and his life, and the well-known story about the cylinder recording supposedly made by Liszt that has yet to surface (if it ever existed), I remain rather sceptical about this Chopin claim, but am prepared to be convinced if the CD can be produced. But why has this not made BIG headlines in the musical world previously? JackofOz 04:59, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

The 1 April option is supported by the number: O10491. Looks rather like a date, doesn't it? DirkvdM 09:56, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, can't give a cite, but soon after that magazine had come out, I listened to a show on KPFK radio in Los Angeles, where they discussed this. Sorry, but it's a hoax. Bunthorne 15:33, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Here's a link to the recording in question: http://media.putfile.com/Chopin-playing-the-minute-waltz-1840 I didn't hear the radio show on this but the article and the recording I found compelling. Although there wasn't a photo of the apparatus, the cylinder or the documentation. Furthermore, one would think someone else would have spoken of this although I've seen great things ignored in the past in fact regularly so it's hard to say what is the truth in this matter but I wouldn't accept KPFK in LA as the final word on anything. All I can assure with any certainty is is that it isn't me playing. If it isn't Chopin he or she certainly could play. (scottlesbme@yahoo.com)

That recording sounds really fake to me. Mak (talk) 01:58, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I remember that edition of the magazine (one of its first, if not the first), and can confirm it was an excellent April fool joke which caused much hilarity; it was well documented with an accompanying article, and I know a couple of people (not musicians) who were taken in. By the way, it doesn't take a pianistic genius to play the minute waltz in under a minute; I remember on the British television show "Record Breakers", once, speedy performances of the minute waltz played by under-14s. Those musical luminaries Hinge and Bracket were on hand, adjudicating on whether all the notes were present in each performance. --RobertG ♬ talk 09:55, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nationality

Just want to make sure I didn't go out on an unsupported limb here. Chopin seems to be one of those composers who tends to be claimed as their own by various nationalist groups. I suggest that we keep his nationality out of the first sentence, and leave the full description of his national backgrounds in the intro, allowing the reader to decide for themself whether being born in Poland makes him Polish, or adopting France makes him French, or whatever else they choose to extrapolate from the information given. Mak (talk) 22:03, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, his father was French, and his mother (in case you couldn't tell by reading her name) was, of course, Polish. 50% of each seems pretty reasonable. —  $PЯINGrαgђ  Always loyal! 22:12, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

So, if I understand you correctly, you think that the first sentence should read, as it did previously, "Frédéric François Chopin (English: IPA: [ʃoʊpæn] or [ʃoʊpæ̃]; French: [fʁedeʁik fʁɑ̃swa ʃɔpɛ̃]), (March 1, 1810[1] – October 17, 1849) was a Polish-French pianist and composer of the Romantic era."? Mak (talk) 22:17, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I was attempting to be diplomatic, but if you choose to be blunt, I can't keep you from it. Yes, I do. —  $PЯINGrαgђ  Always loyal! 22:24, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Just trying to make sure I understand you correctly. Mak (talk) 22:26, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Polish is fine. Polish-French is also fine--it is literally true, if you consider the nationality of his father. The New Grove has "Polish composer." He was born in Poland. His musical identity is 100% Polish. Leaving the national origin adjective out of the opening sentence is a way to solve the problem, only our anonymous friend seems insistent on putting it back. Honestly, I'm fine with either of the three ways, I just don't like the edit war. Antandrus (talk) 22:51, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I think "Polish composer" is just fine too. After all, Maurice Ravel gets to be a "French composer", even though his father was Swiss and his mother was Basque. Chopin clearly identified himself as a Pole. Check out the comparable cases of the "Hungarians" Franz Liszt and Sandor Petofi, which are a lot murkier. This really isn't the same as the Copernicus debate. I think there should be some early reference to his being "generally regarded as Poland's greatest composer" (hardly a controversial statement, though no doubt someone willl challenge it if it's unsourced). Cheers. --Folantin 11:50, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

My piano professor refers to him as Polish in nationality and so does my Music encyclopedia book.__Seadog ^♪ 03:42, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Contradiction

"Chopin wrote almost exclusively for the piano, and published little music that did not involve it." (Third paragraph.)

"All of Chopin's works involve the piano, whether solo or accompanied." (Under the heading 'Works'.)

This is a contradiction - the first statement implies that he wrote some work without piano; the second states that he did not. I am 99% sure that the second statement is correct but cannot be 100% certain, therefore cannot edit it. But whichever is correct, it is still a contradiction.

Musical lottie 01:29, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

All of his work contains a piano of some sort. See the List of compositions by Frédéric Chopin. Also the Polish Frédéric Chopin Society says so. Janderk 09:05, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

This is a matter of boolean logic: He wrote almost exclusively for the piano = he wrote a lot of works for solo piano; This is compatible with the second statement. There's no contradiction. Loudenvier 14:21, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

But it also says that Chopin "published little music that did not involve it", which suggests that he did publish some. — 23:45, 10 December 2006 (UTC)