Talk:Fordham University

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[edit] Atlantic 10 semis March 10, 2006

For those in the NYC cable TV audience, the game starts at 8:30PM (unless it is delayed because earlier game goes long) and will be shown on MSG network on cable immediatel;y following the MapleLeafs game. Go Rams! John wesley 22:17, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Intro

Apologies for the apology I put at the end of the article (normally I don't do such a thing), but this really is pathetic. I'm adding the one sentence article to put this on my contributions so I can return and flesh it out. The reason I can't flesh it out is that I can't bring up the Fordham web site tonight...for some reason. I'll fix it tomorrow, but anyone who can should fix it in the meantime. Sorry for posting this sub-sub-stub! Jwrosenzweig 00:51, 14 Jan 2004 (UTC)

NB: For anyone who is fixing grammatical errors, the external link "the paper" is supposed to be all in lower case. (not The Paper) 68.198.210.163 20:40, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Movies

I'm pretty sure Beautiful Mind was filmed at Princeton. Can anyone find sources to support the fact that these movie were filmed at Fordham? --24.63.125.78 22:28, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

^^^ Yes part of it was at least. I know, for sure, that the scene with Russell Crowe in the Pentagon breaking Soviet code was indeed filmed in the basement of Keating Hall. Other parts were also filmed on campus, but I'm not exactly sure which ones.

[edit] Marymount Campus

Someone suggested that the "marymount campus" page be merged into Fordham's main page. I second that and also suggest that a whole new page be created on the history of the soon to be gone Marymount College.

[edit] Marymount Colleges

I am creating a new wiki entry which describes the Marymount colleges. I am also creating a disambiguation page for Marymount College so that people searching for Marymount College of Tarrytown will not simply find the page for Marymount College of Palos Verdes--especially since it was founded four decades AFTER this Marymount. Until a page with Marymount College of Tarrytown's history is up, though, I think the name of this page should be changed to Marymount College. or Marymount College of Fordham University.

I'd go further by adding a brief description for each of Fordham's three campuses. Other major universities with multiple campuses (George Washington for example) have this feature.

[edit] A-10 tourney

Did we win? John wesley 22:06, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notable Alumni

This section is getting kind of big, maybe it should be reorganized into categories, such as actors, politicians, academics, etc..Chriscobar 12:39, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Plus are some of these people really notable alumni? The engineer on Imus in the Morning? Former city councilmen? The CEO of GAMCO Investors, Inc? Awiseman 18:16, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Anyone? I say we get rid of some of these. I mean, the Chief Market Strategist of Banc of America Capital Management is hardly a famous alumnus, I think Awiseman 17:38, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I totally agree, this list is getting out of hand, but what is the criteria for keeping some names while removing others?Chriscobar 19:04, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I say we suggest which people to remove and see what responses we get. It seems like a lot of the ones without Wikipedia articles could go, and even some with - Frank J. Petrilli and J. Brendan Ryan seem like vanity articles, for example. User:Theblueline wrote them both. See Wikipedia:Criteria_for_inclusion_of_biographies for more Awiseman 17:22, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lack of references

I haven't added a {{unreferenced|date=August 2006}} tag or sprinkled a bunch of {{fact}} tags in the article but the references aren't well cited in this article at all. The "Further Reading" and "External Links" sections are good but they are no replacement for references. --ElKevbo 22:09, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Crimson/Magenta

The Crimson/Magenta color part needs sources. I am going to add citation needed tags. Awiseman 21:31, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Hope the current ones are satisfactory. Shoreranger

Yes indeed, thanks. I think I am going to clean it up a little though. Awiseman 14:19, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alumni section getting out of hand

There are now an hundreds of notable alumni listed, many of whom I don't think are notable at all. User:Theblueline has been adding tons of alumni, a lot of which I don't consider notable, and some with incorrect information, like the CEO of the Postal Service, which is a position that doesn't exist. I think he or she just Googled "Fordham" and added whoever came back. There are a lot of judges on circuit courts, the chairman of a park authority, heads of random companies, etc. Here are the people I think should be deleted, what do you all think? Most don't have their own articles.

Business:

   * Raul Alarcon, Jr., Chairman, President and CEO of Spanish Broadcasting System
   * Robert M. Calderoni, Chairman and CEO of Ariba
   * Michael J. Dolan, Executive Vice President and CFO of Viacom
   * John D. Finnegan, Chairman, President and CEO of Chubb Corporation (Fordham Law alumnus)
   * Mario J. Gabelli, Founder, Chairman, CEO and Chief Investment Officer of GAMCO Investors
   * Ronald L. Kuehn, Jr., Chairman of El Paso Corporation
   * William R. Meagher, former senior partner with Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom
   * Angelo R. Mozilo, Co-Founder, Chairman and CEO of Countrywide Financial Corporation
   * Finbarr J. O'Neill, President and CEO of Reynolds & Reynolds (Fordham Law alumnus)
   * Frank J. Petrilli, President and CEO of Nexxar Group
   * Joseph Quinlan, Chief Market Strategist of Banc of America Capital Management (master's degree from Fordham)
   * Mary Lou Quinlan, Founder and CEO of Just Ask a Woman (master's degree from Fordham)
   * J. Brendan Ryan, Chairman of Foote, Cone & Belding Worldwide
   * David J. Shea, President and COO of Bowne & Co.
   * William D. Walsh, Founder & Chairman of Sequoia Associates

Education:

   * Paul Reiss, President Emeritus of Saint Michael's College (master's degree from Fordham)

Government:

   * Claire Eagan, Chief Judge of the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Oklahoma (Fordham Law alumna)
   * James F. Gill, Chairman of the Battery Park City Authority (Fordham Law alumnus)
   * Joseph M. McLaughlin, Judge of U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit (1990-Present)
   * John D. Feerick, former Chairman of the New York State Commission on Government Integrity
   * William Hughes Mulligan, Judge of U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit (1971-1981)

Journalism

   * Caterina Bandini, news anchor for WHDH/Channel 7, Boston
   * Susan L. Taylor, Editorial Director of Essence magazine

Radio and television

   * John Andariese, radio announcer for the New York Knicks
   * Spero Dedes, radio announcer for the Los Angeles Lakers
   * John Giannone, co-anchor of MSG SportsDesk on MSG Network
   * Ed Randall, host of Talking Baseball on WFAN
   * Lou Rufino, engineer, Imus in the Morning program
   * Charlie Slowes, radio announcer for the Washington Nationals
   * Gary Stanley, sports reporter for WCBS Newsradio 88
   * Steve Ryan, Commissioner of the Major Indoor Soccer League

-- Awiseman 23:17, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Anyone that doesn't have an article already in wikipedia should be removed. And putting outside links to names does NOT count. Maybe also as a compromise, we can move the list to a seperate article like they do for other college articles?24.193.21.143 17:07, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree the alumni section is getting out of hand, and I think the seperate article would work well. On a side note, most large schools, such as Syracuse University, include alumni that don't have wikipedia entries.Anskykids

This message is intended for the person with the IP address 24.193.21.143. First off, you’ve deleted alumni who have Wikipedia articles (Paul Reiss, Chris Carrino, Spero Dedes, Steve Bellan, Peter Carlesimo, P.J. Carlesimo, Pete Harnisch, Harry Jacunski and John Wolyniec). Second -- Bank of America, The Dow Chemical Co., Viacom, Countrywide Financial Corp., El Paso Corp., Chubb Corp., Consolidated Edison, Tribune Co. and Foot Locker are all Fortune 500 companies. You’ve deleted the co-founder of one of those companies (Angelo Mozilo) and the Chairmen, Presidents, CEOs, COOs and CFOs of the rest. Third -- What do you need to accomplish to be "notable"? Being the CEO of Burberry isn’t good enough (Rose Marie Bravo)? Having started the "For Dummies" series of how-to books isn’t notable (John Kilcullen)? Having served as a college president isn’t worthy enough (Rev. Gerard Reedy, S.J. and Paul Reiss)? Having served as a U.S. ambassador isn’t notable (Adrian Basora)? Four-star general and former Vice Chief of Staff of the U.S. Army isn’t worthy enough (John Keane)? Winning a Peabody Award and two Emmy Awards isn’t enough (Jack Ford)? Being Chairman Emeritus of ESPN and winning two Emmy Awards and two Tony Awards isn’t good enough (Herbert Granath)? Having been the first Latin American to play in baseball's major leagues isn’t notable (Steve Bellan)? Any college in America would be honored to include the alumni you’ve deleted on their list of notable alumni. Boston College has a list of over 200 notable alumni. Our list, before your deletions, had only 130 alumni.

Anonymous - don't get so defensive. Check the article, I haven't deleted any of the people on my list, I am asking for other people's thoughts on the matter. And none of the people you mention (Rose Marie Bravo, Kilcullen, Basora, Bellan) etc etc were on my list of people I think should be removed. The only one I have on there is Paul Reiss, the president of St. Michael's College. It's a small school, and to me, thus not very notable. I'm sure lots of colleges have presidents of smaller colleges as alumni. The rest of people you mentioned, however, I didn't even put on my list. I'm sure they are fine alumni, but the users above makes a good argument that anybody without a Wikipedia article should be removed from the list. I agree with the above users - we keep the ones with Wikipedia articles, and make a separate page - "Alumni of Fordham University" or something similiar, with everybody on the list and link to it. Thoughts? -- Awiseman 15:39, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry Awiseman, my message wasn't directed at you; it was intended for the person with the IP address 24.193.21.143 who took it upon himself/herself to delete 53 alumni on 5/14/06. I’ve restored all of them except for Peter Vallone, Jr. (not notable), Lou Rufino (not notable) and Gary Sinise (Was his entry someone’s idea of a joke? I searched the Web to find a connection between Sinise and Fordham and I couldn’t find anything.). I’d like the person who erased the 53 alumni explain why two former college presidents, an historical figure (Steve Bellan), and several high-ranking officers of Fortune 500 companies were deleted. In fact, he/she removed 23 alumni from the Business category, leaving only 5 alumni in that classification. Why bother even having a Business category if you’re not going to list anyone from the business world? Syracuse, Northwestern, Georgetown and other universities have over 200 notable alumni in their Wikipedia articles. Why does Fordham’s modest 127 alumni bother some people? I vote to keep the notable alumni list as is. 68.79.154.94 16:52, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the list of alumni is getting out of hand. I further agree that a separate article would be a good way to help maintain this list without making the main Fordham article too unwieldy. I further submit that just because some other articles have long(er) lists doesn't mean it's good practice. I would hope the contributors to this article would be striving to make it *better* than those other articles. I have no opinion regarding the removal of persons without Wikipedia articles except to state that the presence or lack of a Wikipedia article is a very poor yard stick for measuring notoriety. --ElKevbo 17:50, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I also agree that a separate article is warranted as that would allow the list to be as big as it needs to be without having a negative impact on the main article. Also I believe that it is Wikipedia policy for sections that grow big enough to get their own pages with links from the main article.Chriscobar 18:55, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

How could you delete Mario Gabelli? He is one of the most prominent figures in the financial world today. He regularly appears as a commentator on financial news shows, and writes frequently for the Wall Street Journal. William R. Meagher? Being a co-founder of one of the largest, most successful and most prestigious law firms in the world isn't good enough? Jim Gill? The guy is probably the most influential New Yorker since Robert Moses (just more modest and quiet). And the Battery Park City Authority is not a "park authority." It is far more important than that. I know there are a lot of circuit judges, but Judges Mulligan and McLaughlin are considered genuine giants in the legal world. If we wanted to flood this article with federal judges with a Fordham degree, we could do that. Mulligan and McLaughlin were selected because of their influence and notoriety in the legal world. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.80.205.98 (talk • contribs) 17:45, 15 May 2006. with additional edits by 69.116.151.155 on 18:47, 15 May 2006

I agree with the above user. I've seen "Super Mario" Gabelli on CNBC a multitude of times. He's important enough to be interviewed on the financial cable channels but apparently not worthy enough to be listed as a "notable" alumnus. Mary Lou Quinlan is another alumna that's been marked for deletion and yet she appears on the ABC TV show American Inventor every week. I saw Susan Taylor, another alumna, being honored with the 2006 NAACP President's Award on TV a couple of months ago and yet she too has been nominated for deletion. Re: Jim Gill, I nearly fell off my chair when one person referred to him as the chairman of "a park authority". Has this person ever heard of Battery Park City? The same person claims there’s no such position as the CEO of the Postal Service. Well, I looked it up and – surprise – he’s wrong! Getting back to Gabelli, I guess the company he founded, GAMCO Investors, which manages billions of dollars in investments, is just a "random company" to some people.[1] Are 18 year-old college students running Wikipedia’s Fordham article? 68.79.154.94 00:31, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Anonymous - don't be snarky, I am doing this in good faith. I posted this list so it could be discusssed, rather than just deleting it. According to the Wikipedia article, it says Battery Part City Authority is a planning authority for an area of Manhattan. Still not sure that means that person is notable, however, but again, it's up for discussion. As for the others, like Gabelli, Quinlan, and such, if they are as notable as you say, please create a page for them or change the citation for them in the list - "Mario Gabelli, MSNBC commentator and founder of GAMCO Investors" sounds to me like he's a lot more notable. There are lots of companies that manage billions of dollars in investments - are their founders all notable? I don't know. And "Postmaster General" is the CEO, it's the same thing. "CEO of the Postal Service" seems to be used in business when people might not recognize "Postmaster General" as an important CEO-level title. To me, it would be like saying Donald Rumsfeld is secretary and CEO of the Defense Department. Awiseman 17:12, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

According to John E. Potter's "full biography" on the USPS website, "prior to becoming Postmaster General, he had been Chief Operating Officer." I take that statement to mean that "Postmaster General" and "CEO" are two separate positions.[2] Regarding Gabelli, if he’s not "notable" then hardly any the businessmen/women listed as Notable Alumni should be on that list. (Ever hear of the Gabelli mutual funds? I’m invested in two of them: Gabelli Asset and Gabelli Growth.) In fact, only two of the businesmen/women listed have Wikipedia articles written on them (Kathleen Brown and Donald Trump). We might as well delete the entire Business section making Fordham the only national university without "notable" businessmen/women listed in its Wikipedia article. Now explain to this 50 year-old what is the meaning "snarky"? 68.79.154.94 18:20, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Anonymous - No, I've never heard of Gabelli mutual funds. But if he's on TV and is supposedly a famous businessman, then I am fine with him being included. Snarky means overly critical and sarcastic. --Awiseman 19:07, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I took a look at the "notable alumni" entries for other schools referenced in this discussion. I won't quibble about who is listed as "notable" in those entries but, for example, if we were to include state Supreme Justices with a Fordham degree, this list is going to multiply. Of significance, I did notice some of these school entries contained an additional section, "Notable Faculty." Certainly Fordham has had more than its fair share of noted faculty (Quentin Lauer, Norris Clarke, Avery Dulles, William Hogan, etc). I think we should break off this list into a separate article and then start compiling a "Notable Faculty" Section. contribs)

I agree with both of the last poster's suggestions: seperate entry for alumni and start a list of noted faculty Shoreranger 00:59, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

I happened to catch a bit of Oprah Winfrey’s "Legends Ball" on TV last night and saw that Fordham alumna Susan L. Taylor (Editorial Director, Essence magazine) was one of the legends being honored at the event. The list of honorees was quite impressive (Maya Angelou, Halle Berry, Mariah Carey, Diana Ross, Cicely Tyson, etc.). For those unfamiliar with Oprah's Legends Ball, it's an event to honor African-American women who have paved the way for others. I respectfully request that Taylor’s name be removed from the "should be deleted" list posted above.[3] Theblueline 14:38, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

With all due respect, I disagree with removal of any of the alumni listed for deletion, with one exception that I see no point in singling out at the moment. Gabelli, for example, is one of the best known people in finance. I would suggest that the absence of separate articles should be rectified, rather than removal from the list.--Mantanmoreland 13:16, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sign your posts

This is a friendly reminder to please sign your posts. Thanks! --ElKevbo 23:50, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Source for Anglican connection to town of Fordham name, please?

Where is this from?: "...a reference to Rev. John Fordham, an Anglican priest." Shoreranger 21:09, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't the writer, but Gannon makes reference to it in his book. The school was named for the neighborhood, which was allegedly named for the minister.Amherst5282 21:15, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

That is not clear at all from the text. Could the author clean that up? Shoreranger

[edit] Prestige

I have removed the word "prestigious" from the intro sentence per the Wikipedia guideline recommending we avoid academic boosterism. As recommended in the NPOV policy, let the facts speak for themselves. The article does a very good job of establishing the prominence and quality of the institution without using ambigious and subjective words like "prestigious." --ElKevbo 21:14, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I see. For the sake of consistency and credibility, editors should not often change long-standing text but this specific rule governs here. As they say, the specific rule governs over the general policy.66.80.205.98

[edit] Tagged alumni list

I added the cleanup-list template the alumni list, as I feel that it includes many alums who aren't notable (many of whom I've listed below). It seems like academic boosterism, trying to list everybody who has done anything. Here's my updated list of people I think should be deleted. As always, the list is up for discussion. I'm not from New York, so maybe some of the people listed are famous in New York.

Business:

   * Raul Alarcon, Jr., Chairman, President and CEO of Spanish Broadcasting System
   * Robert M. Calderoni, Chairman and CEO of Ariba
   * John D. Finnegan, Chairman, President and CEO of Chubb Corporation (Fordham Law alumnus)
   * Ronald L. Kuehn, Jr., Chairman of El Paso Corporation
   * Angelo R. Mozilo, Co-Founder, Chairman and CEO of Countrywide Financial Corporation
   * Finbarr J. O'Neill, President and CEO of Reynolds & Reynolds (Fordham Law alumnus)
   * Frank J. Petrilli, President and CEO of Nexxar Group
   * Joseph Quinlan, Chief Market Strategist of Banc of America Capital Management (master's degree from Fordham)
   * Mary Lou Quinlan, Founder and CEO of Just Ask a Woman (master's degree from Fordham)
   * David J. Shea, President and COO of Bowne & Co.
   * William D. Walsh, Founder & Chairman of Sequoia Associates

Government:

   * Claire Eagan, Chief Judge of the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Oklahoma (Fordham Law alumna)
   * James F. Gill, Chairman of the Battery Park City Authority (Fordham Law alumnus)
   * Joseph M. McLaughlin, Judge of U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit (1990-Present)
   * John D. Feerick, former Chairman of the New York State Commission on Government Integrity
   * William Hughes Mulligan, Judge of U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit (1971-1981)

Media and Communications

   * Caterina Bandini, news anchor for WHDH/Channel 7, Boston
   * John Giannone, co-anchor of MSG Network's MSG SportsDesk
   * Sal Marchiano, two-time Emmy Award-winning sports anchor for New York City's WB affiliate, WPIX-TV
   * John Andariese, radio announcer for the New York Knicks
   * Spero Dedes, radio announcer for the Los Angeles Lakers
   * John Giannone, co-anchor of MSG SportsDesk on MSG Network
   * Ed Randall, host of Talking Baseball on WFAN
   * Charlie Slowes, radio announcer for the Washington Nationals
   * Gary Stanley, sports reporter for WCBS Newsradio 88

Sports

   * Steve Ryan, Commissioner of the Major Indoor Soccer League

--Awiseman 17:22, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I've removed your tag as it is apparent that the vast majority of contributors not only disagree with you but feel that you are indiscriminately proposing removing some very accomplished alumni. You raised this same point just two months ago and an extended discussion ensued, with all other contributors taking exception to your point. I don't understand why you would even raise this point again. The last debate on this subject settled it. 69.116.151.155, July 8, 2006

I agree. A list is not bad because it is long. A list is bad because if some of its components do not belong on it.--Mantanmoreland 20:46, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

If the anonymous commenter would notice, I have removed the ones people took exception to. Those that remain, I think, are not notable. --Awiseman 16:37, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Martin Luther

Those with a spare moment and a knowledge of the subject might want to take a look at Martin Luther, to ascertain if it fairly deals with this man as relates to the Roman Catholic church, and weigh in if it does not.--Mantanmoreland 15:18, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Keating Hall photo

Needs a date. The scene certainly does nto look that way now, and it is misleading not to acknoledge it in the caption with a date.--Shoreranger 19:56, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Someone added "circa 1937" in the caption, but aren't there copyright laws protecting photos published in 1923 and afterwards? Anyone know for sure? And why was Chriscobar's cool pic of the Administration Building replaced with this old photo of Keating? There's already a nice shot of Keating in the article? Are two photos of the same building really necessary? Theblueline 22:20, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Separate alumni article

One way of dealing with the unwieldy nature of the alumni list is to simply create an article or articles listing notable Fordham alumni. Note the approach taken for Harvard [4]. Has anything like this been contemplated?--Mantanmoreland 20:51, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I mentioned it before, I think it's a good idea. Leave a few of the most famous alums on here, but put the whole list there. --Awiseman 16:36, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, well unless somebody objects, maybe it should be done then? It would surely rectify the whole issue and there could be a link right there in the article. Also, and I must confessed I am confused by some of the back-and-forth, I would suggest not omitting any names from the alumni list. They seem like notable people to be, all of them.--Mantanmoreland 17:38, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Great, go for it! I was most concerned about the list getting bloated and thus making this page enormous. If there's a new page for alums, then I have no problem with them all being on the new page. --Awiseman 18:02, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

OK. Well, before I do it, how's about the title. "List of Fordham University Alumni"? Then I'll just cut and past the whole list.--Mantanmoreland 18:06, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes on the new page; No on the title. I suggest "Notable Fordham University Alumni". As first suggested, anyone regardless of acomplishment could logically be included, and I don't think anyone wants that. Please remember to create a section in the current article that notes some of the most distinguished alums before moving the whole list over.--Shoreranger 02:55, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree on the title (i.e., "Notable Fordham University Alumni"). IMO, the list of the most distinguished alumni should include Mary Higgins Clark, Alan Alda, Denzel Washington, Geraldine Ferraro (law), Charles Osgood, Vin Scully, and Vince Lombardi. Others worth considering: Mario Gabelli, John Sexton, G. Gordon Liddy, Bob Keeshan, Dylan McDermott, Andrew Cuomo, Mike Breen, Jim Dwyer, Michael Kay, Tony Reali, P.J. Carlesimo, Frankie Frisch, and Wellington Mara. Theblueline 03:21, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

I moved the list to Notable Fordham University Alumni. However, isn't "List of" is Wiki style?

P.S. Those pictures rock! Great idea.--Mantanmoreland 00:06, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree. The pictures are awesome! Good job, theblueline! 68.79.154.94 18:58, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I got the idea from the Georgetown University and Duke University Wikipedia articles, which have pictures of their notable alumni. Theblueline 22:34, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I like the new article, but I don't think the pictures are really necessary. If you want to see a picture of that person, you can just click on their article, right? --Awiseman 05:08, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

True, but it does spiff up the page.--Mantanmoreland 19:12, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone have an opinion as to whether the separate article should be entitled "List of Notable...etc" or am I the only one who is concerned by the absence of those two words? (I shall interpret continued silence to mean "yes")--Mantanmoreland 23:06, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd go with "List of notable Fordham University alumni". Theblueline 23:16, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that is the style. I shall rename and make the appropriate modification in the article.--Mantanmoreland 23:18, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

The new page is great. I am wondering, however, if we can get a little more professional diverstiy in the sampling that is left in this entry. The current group seems very heavy on the media arts, with the exception of Farraro. Could we get some of the more pretigious folks from other fields? And how about getting out of the 20th century? Oh, and what about Shaw, the famed Civil War officer depicted in the film "Glory"? He went to the "Prep" when it was one institution within St. John's - doesn't he deserve a mention? What do others think?--Shoreranger 22:51, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Louis Calder Center

Is by far not the only biological field station in the NYC metro area. Columbia's Lamont-Doherty, for example.--Shoreranger 03:25, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

If true, then someone should tell the University. According to the Louis Calder Center's official website, "no other full-time ecological research field station exists within the metropolitan area." Perhaps the key work is "full-time." Is Columbia's field station a part-time facility? [5] Theblueline 16:27, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, yes it is very much a full-time facility. As I understand it, it is a 24/7/365 facility. Anyone interested may wish to visit http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/. However, looking more carefully at the claim, perhaps the operative word is "biological", as Lamont-Doherty seems to focus on the geophysical sciences. I confess my initial impression of the Fordham claim was that there were no other environmental science stations at all in the area besides the Calder Center. Stonybrook and Hampton colleges have marine biology field operations, but I won't press the point. Sapentia et Doctrina!--Shoreranger 00:33, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

So, where are we going with this? Shall we change "ecological" to "biological", as clearly there are other educational institutions with field operations studying the ecology from various perspectives.--Shoreranger 02:44, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

In reading the official websites of Fordham's Louis Calder Center and Columbia's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, my impression is that the research done at the Calder Center is ecologically oriented whereas the research at Lamont-Doherty is geologically oriented. Theblueline 03:52, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, however this still does not address the Stonybrook and Hampton colleges in Long Island, which would seem just as much in the metropolitan area.--Shoreranger 23:11, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I never heard of Hampton College and I can't find anything about it on the web. However, there is a Hampton University in Hampton, Virginia. I'll look into Stony Brook's field station when I have time. Theblueline 23:36, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Quite right, I was writing from memory. Southampton College of Long Island University is what I was thinking of.--Shoreranger 03:16, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I just visited the website for Lamont-Doherty at http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/ and I am afraid, despite the claims on the Fordham website to the contrary, it seems plain that the Calder Center is definitely not the "only" ecological or biological (both terms are used to decribe it in this article, and on the Fordham website) field station in the NY metro area. Lamont-Doherty is only one example, but it is a glaring one. Look at the website and one will find research iz certainly ecological, and with significant biological research and study. I do not contend that Fordham does not claim the Calder Center as the only place of its kind in the NYC area, I only contend that it is not accurate and should be removed from this article.

[edit] "University's official journal of record"

Is there a reference for this claim concerning The Fordham Ram?

The newspaper's home page states "The Ram is the University journal of record." I guess the claim is okay if the word "official" is left out.[6] Theblueline 23:31, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

"Official" is accurate. "Claims to be" is unnecessary.--Mantanmoreland 21:10, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

What is the basis of the "official" label? Is it on the paper's banner somewhere? Or an announcement by the University president or board to this effect? I am also interested in the protocol for the qualifier "award winning": is there a temporal relationship that justifies the use of this phrase? For example: if a paper won an award in the last 5 years, or even a decade, this would seem appropriate. Is there consensus on that? If a paper hasn't won a prize in over ten-years, especially a student paper that has a complete turn-over of staff at least every four years (accounting graduation of staff), then the title may seem less appropriate. Also, the term "award winning" now seems to require some clarification in order not to seem misleading to the reader. Does "award winning" automatically imply conference from a nationally-recognized organization, or does it include acknowledgement from the local chamber of commerce or church council for running free advertising? The latter may not be what the reader expects. A quick internet search did not pull up any recent awards for "The Ram" or "The Fordham Ram", but perhaps I was not specific enough. Please provide more information and/or justification. --Shoreranger 21:34, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I think you can remove "award winning," as that is "peacock language" and not favored. As for "official" -- I saw it referred to that way on the university website, but can't find it. So, if you wish to remove, do so and if I or someone else stumbles upon an official reference to this "official" biz, it can be put back on with a cite.--Mantanmoreland 18:24, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Removed, and then replaced. There seems to be some attention to this matter that is out of the context of this discussion. What to do?--Shoreranger 16:46, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hockey section

The hockey part lists a bunch of players on there, I get the feeling it's a vanity edit. It also said their house was the "most elite social building on campus," which I removed as unverifiable and vanity. Can somebody clean up the hockey players? --Awiseman 18:23, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree, and was going to say something. And the part about the players that did not perform well is somewhat inappropriate and unnecessary, even if it's true. A little information on the hockey program overall and their recent championship is good, but not much else besides that. --scskowron 22:25, 21 July 2006 UTC

I agree. This section needs a lot of work. No problem at all mentioning the sport and the championship, but the individual players and opinionns on performance should really go.--Shoreranger 14:58, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fidel Castro

Can we get a source for the claim that Fidel Castro played shortstop for Fordham, please?--Shoreranger 18:39, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why are affiliations noted in two places?

Why is there a special section for affiliations, and an affiliation is noted in the opening paragraph? Shouldn't it all be in one place? If the point is to identify Fordham as a university with a Jesuit heritage, then just say that. It seems to be pretty well covered in the second paragraph, anyway. Otherwise, there are a number of acreditation and affiliations that are just as important to the university's standing and character that could go in the opening paragraph.--Shoreranger 17:02, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hughes "combative"?

Can we get a citation for this accusation? I see that the Wiki bio. that links to his name does not note him to be particularly "combative". Additionally, this seems like a subjective opinion, not an objective one, even if we were to see a citation. Perhaps it should be removed.--Shoreranger 16:38, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I added citation. Was it really necessary? 68.79.154.94 20:30, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Please sign your comments. I find the whole thing subjective, and feel the reference to "combative" subjective. I also find the source material to be biased. Even if the AOH, apparently, finds the term "combative" to be complementary, it is still a matter of perspective and subject to opinion. Many of those Hughes worked to better found him a 'stalwart defender'. Perhaps to the establishment he found unwelcoming to his ideas he was considered "combative", or "obstinate", or any number of subjective descriptors. The term should go, IMO.--Shoreranger 19:44, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I edited the sentence using the following citation as a reference: [7]. Hope it pleases. If not, I'll just have to keep googling. 68.79.154.94 21:41, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Again, please sign your comments (an IP address does not substitute for a signature in the context of Wikipedia, I understand). Consensus is what we are at here, I thought. I suggest you contribute to Hughes' rather sparse bio and remove the editorial comments on him from the Fordham entry. That is where "googling" efforts should be spent, it seems to me. The facts of Hughes' successes should speak for themselves. It does not seem necessary to subjectively comment on him in this entry. How he was perceived in his own day, and is re-interpreted today, is much better served in his bio entry -- if anywhere in Wikipedia -- and should be avoided here. The same would go for anyone else in the Fordham entry. The only reason I would even consider leaving the "Dagger John" mention at all (and I am leaning towards debating for its removal now, too, for similar reasons) is that it was a factual nick-name, and it begs explanation. The cross-inscription next to his name is more than adequate, and not at all subjective.--Shoreranger 22:30, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Made change using the following source: [8] 68.79.154.94 20:19, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Commencement speakers?

I'm not sure this article needs to have them, as most colleges have notable commencement speakers. --Awiseman 16:09, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I was just thinking the same, today. I suggest they be removed, it is a bit silly.Shoreranger 01:24, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, I'll do that. --Awiseman 20:09, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

It might be notable to list alumni who later came back as commencement speakers. Are all the ones listed now alumni? Wl219 05:12, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Too long

Seeing as this article is too long, I think the Global Outreach and Affiliations portions can be eliminated. Thoughts?

I'm thinking Athletics can be split into its own article. Wl219 01:21, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Looking at comparable Jesuit institutions, such as the University of Notre Dame, they have less information regarding athletics. Furthermore, there are precedents for longer articles on individual college sports teams, the 'California Golden Bears' for instance, which links from the UC Berkeley article. Given the ammount of information already gathered, I believe the "Fordham Rams" merit their own article, linked from the Fordham page. I also believe it would be prudent not to delete any relevant sections entirely, especially involving ongoing institutions, given the propensity for people to repost sections and the potential for retributive posts. 02:55, 24 October 2006

FYI: University of Notre Dame is not a Jesuit institution.Shoreranger 19:34, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Both or either can be justified as its own article, IMO.Shoreranger 15:04, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Agreed with the own article, more so with Global Outreach as the article can expand through more detailed information and events, IMO. PaladinHero1, 2:52, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

If Notre Dame, which has tons of athletic tradition, has less on athletics than Fordham, then I definitely think a new article could be split off. --Awiseman 20:02, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Don't cut out the Global Outreach. I think that's a distinguishing feature of Fordham University when compared to other similar Universities. --scskowron 21:24, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Not necessary to "cut". A 2-3 sentence topic can remain for GO! with a link to a WIki page that has more extensive info.Shoreranger 16:55, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I cut some of the opening paragraph to make it more uniform when compared to other University pages. The other content about rankings is covered later in the article, and makes the beginning sounds too pro-Fordham. All the sources and such jumped into the content too quickly, instead of just giving the reader a quick overview of the university, as the opening paragraph should.Icetitan17 17:31, 1 November 2006

As long as the information you deleted from the intro is covered elsewhere then that looks good to me. --ElKevbo 22:37, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, where is the rankings content covered eleswhere? A quick look at the article did not come up with it. In addition, the other information deleted was useful, as well. The new opening paragraph is fine, but the missing info needs to be incorporated eleswhere.Shoreranger 01:39, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

The rankings content is covered under academic reputation. It might be suitable to put in the opening paragraph, but currently the opening paragraph is about two paragraphs too long. Any other college page, even Ivy Leagues, only contain one opening paragraph, and then the index. It needs to be consolidated or something. There's too much there. Suggestions would be much appreciated. Icetitan17 19:46, 5 November 2006

I created the "Academic Reputation" section myself recently (and the "Academic Ideals" section), using the text that had been removed from the introduction. There is a notable lack of uniformity in format for introductory paragraphs in Wiki university articles (see Columbia University, Georgetown University, University of Notre Dame), so the current paragraph - while not perfect - fits somewhere within this spectrum. You may notice that as of this writing the 'too long' warning at the top of the article is now gone, presumably due to moving the bulk of the athletics and Global Outreach text to their own articles.Shoreranger 15:08, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I note with some interest that the articles you cited are not featured articles. Has anyone ever compared the featured university articles to identify similarities? Does the relevant project (I think there is some sort of university or higher ed project) provide any guidance in this area? I'm certainly not impugning the fine work that you have done, Shoreranger; I just hate to see Wikipedia editors keep reinventing the wheel (and I watch many university articles and it's more common than it should be). --ElKevbo 15:37, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Seismic Center

Added the section regarding the seismic station - this is unique to the university and I think appropriate to include here. Jeeper275 04:19, 16 December 2006 (UTC)Jeeper275

Excellent addition. I will wikify some of the links --scskowron 15 December 2006 23:23 (UTC)

[edit] Headline text

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