User talk:Folken de Fanel

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Contents

[edit] End of Evangelion

The end of Evangelion is in the lyrics of the opening. The discussion was deleted, so I could not tell you it was "nonsense". What was changed was the plot, not the end. Help yourself and read the lyrics before answering.

[edit] Warning

It seems to me that you have acted in an uncivil manner on Daishokaioshin. It is important to keep a cool head, despite any comments against you. Personal attacks and disruptive comments only escalate a situation; please keep calm and action can be taken against the other parties if necessary. Your involvement in attacking back can only satisfy trolls or anger contributors, and lead to general bad feeling. Please try to remain civil with your comments. Thanks! --3bulletproof16 16:57, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The correct term - Ares or Arles?

Folken de Fanel

Greetings.

I have been noticing as of late - that you are the one responsible for editing the name Ares - to Arles.

This is wrong, as you should know, the name Arles makes no sense and is completely mistranslated from the japanese name "Aruhss" as it is pronounced in their native language. Therefore, the correct term is Ares.

Please, I respect your opinion - but the correct term IS Ares, and it should be used correctly. I don't mind if the term Arles is used in your native language or in your country. I'm from Peru, and I have watched Saint Seiya in South America over 13 yrs ago. Like you, I also understand the burning passion and the love that we both have for our beloved series.

Yes, in my country - they also used the term "Arles" and the term "Knights" when it was dubbed here. However, we have grown fond of those terms and they are what we used everyday now.

But, it doesn't mean they are the correct terms, the correct terms should be "Saints" instead of "Knights", just like "Ares" should be used instead of "Arles".

Like I stated before - it was mis-interpreted and it became the standard term most Saint Seiya fans use nowadays. But this is Wikipedia, and we should strive to put out there correct terms, not the terms that we grown fondly of. Not the terms that we have grown fond of 13 yrs ago. I understand you - and I hope that you understand as well.

I am not forcing my opinion in you - but its the correct term dictated by the anime. Try watching the Original Japanese Anime, and you can see clearly he is named Ares. Try going to Bandai website, and you will see that he is named "Grand Pope Ares" in the packaging of the Saint Seiya Myth Cloth Series- thus, completely negating the term "Arles". See it for yourself, if you don't believe me.

And please, before you decide to edit my comments - state as of why? and provide evidence VALID to prove that ARLES is the CORRECT term. I have watched and OWN all the Saga, in 3 diff. languages, and I understand your opinion - but its invalid when it is used against the correct and ORIGINAL Japanese anime.

Thanks.

I really didn't try to be vindictive or anything, look - I'm not going to sit here and waste my life away in this.

You say Arles, I say Ares - truth to the matter, we don't know. And yes, I was very well aware of the Orphe comment, but like you said - there's nothing concrete and 100% fact. I was also very aware of the Japanese pronunciation, but it made sense regarding the "Ares" theory (read below)

Regarding Saga, being the embodiment of Ares, that is also a matter of speculation. Nowhere in the anime has it been stated - as to what really was that possessed Saga to being evil.

The opinion was:

- He developed an alter ego, due to mental problems (ying and yang theory), and his evil side ended up taking the best of him.

- He became so powerful and dillusional with his own power, that he decided that Athena was weak and was not ready for the upcoming holy wars - thus, he being the strongest should take lead. He wanted to what was best, but ended up losing track of who he was (hence the "who are you" statement in the manga, and later revealed in the Anime as to why he wanted Athena's power)

- He was possessed by the War God Ares, and feeling cheated of being reincarnated in a young body such as Athena, he wanted to kill her and take over the world (hence the many comments in the manga - of him being the "half-god" or possessing a Cosmos that defied those of a God - check the ep 4 of Hades - the title says it all - even in the Manga, when Seiya reflects the Shield light at him - a spirit much akin to the way Poseidon was defeated appeared, proving more evidence that it could have been the War God or an evil spirit)

- He was the re-incarnation of evil, as stated many times in the anime.

All of these are plausible theories, none have been proven yet - because they are all in the Anime and Manga. Thus, I'm going to leave it at that. Like I said - each and one of these theories are right - but no one has come up with a way of linking all of these theories together. Nothing is 100% concrete.

I'm sorry if I sounded harsh - but at least input all of these informations and facts out there. Don't just negate them. I'm only looking for means to link everything together - all of the theories and opinions, so that way we don't come to disagreements over names, or over what happened in the series. Kind of like have a common understanding such as this way - everyone is pleased and everyone is on the same page. If not, well - what can we do?


[edit] tien

I know he is usually considered a human but cant know for sure so I think we should leave it as unknown. Count Raznagul 20:09, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Daizenshuu noncanon!!!!! Count Raznagul 00:05, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] (Breaks some bread)

I totally do not need any more of this drama. Can we just bury the hatchet and pretend all of this never happened? The S 02:30, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fellow Saint Seiya fan

I've noticed by now that you have as much spirit for Saint Seiya as i have. And i thought that the Wiki page being just built on one persons knowledge wouldn't be aknowledged by the community. So i would like to suggest a teamwork between you and me since i've noticed that we both have some sources the other doesn't. So what do you say?

[edit] Hi

Hi, I already provided fact info on the discussion on the talk page, what do you still need to wait for to adjust the article? I can even provide the manga pages that stated the fact to expalin the research if you need that. Yajaec 23:11, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


Reply:

What are you talking about, I stated hard fact stright from manga that Hypnose and Thanatos have Pandora to watch over Hades' spirit till the seal on the tower is broken, it's hard fact I even have the manga and I can provide it how can you dismiss it? Yajaec 23:18, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Reply:

I did not modify the words in manga, and I will provide links to manga pages if I have to and proove that's what manga said. I did not controdict myself because manga clearly said that Hades born as Pandora's younger brother. And shown in manga that all the gods existed before 13years ago either physically like Hypnose etc. and spirirtually like Poseidon and Hades, that's not a controdiction.

You have no bases to proove that I am wrong, why don't you provide the fact that I modify the words in manga and proove that manga clearly stated, with out a doubt that the spirit possessed Saga IS Hades?!?!?Yajaec 23:34, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your dispute over Saint Seiya

Hello! My name is Kurt Weber, and I have agreed to assist User:Yajaec as an advocate in his dispute with you over the Saint Seiya article. In order to let tempers cool down, I am asking that both of you agree to refrain from editing this article until the matter is settled. As a show of good faith, Yajaec has agreed to let the article stand as you wish it (this does not, of course, preclude third parties from making their own changes to the article).

You should know that I am not trying to prove the substance of Yajaec's edits "right" in any way--in fact, I know next to nothing about anime or manga. So you don't need to try to prove your case to me; that's not what I'm concerned with. All I'm concerned with is making sure that this matter is settled in a mature and intelligent fashion, regardless of what content winds up in the article.

I think you misunderstand the purpose of the RfC Yajaec filed on that article. He wasn't necessarily trying to find people to back him up; he was simply trying to determine what the community consensus is--whether it agrees with his point, your point, or something altogether different from what both of you want at present. Whatever that consensus is, he is willing to follow it--and, as a good Wikipedian, you should be too. While you are always free to try and change a consensus, you must allow the article to reflect whatever the consensus is at any given moment. Yajaec was simply inviting the Wikipedia community at large to come together and arrive at a consensus, whatever it might be, so that this dispute may be resolved peacefully and quietly.

Finally, your threat of "proper vandalism warnings" should Yajaec continue to edit the article in the manner he preferred was most unnecessary. While a good case could probably be made that he was edit warring, the same case would apply to you as well--it takes two to tangle. And at any rate, what he did certainly was not "vandalism". Simply adding content that you deem inappropriate or incorrect (or removing content you deem appropriate or correct) does not constitute "vandalism"--it must be added (or removed) in bad faith, which clearly is not the case here. Hopefully you can understand this, and keep what arguments you must have in context.

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions about Yajaec's case or the dispute resolution process. Hopefully we can solve this quickly and amicably! Kurt Weber 18:21, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

You misunderstand how Wikipedia works. It is not sufficient to simply claim victory and to declare that any further adding of content you consider false constitutes vandalism. Wikipedia works by creating a consensus among interested editors--and, as you and Yajaec appear to be the only interested editors to this point, you must both agree for a consensus to exist. Unless and until that happens, you can neither (a) claim that your version of the page is the only correct one, nor (b) claim that adding content you consider to be "misinformation" constitutes vandalism.

Vandalism requires intent. One not must be simply be adding "misinformation" (your word); he must also honestly believe it to be false. That is absolutely not the case here.

As you and Yajaec were clearly unable to come to a consensus among yourselves, Yajaec filed an RfC requesting a consensus on what should be contained in the article. This simply means that he was soliciting input from the Wikipedia community at large as to what the best way to write the article would be. Remember that, by choosing to be a Wikipedia editor, you are bound to honor whatever consensus the Wikipedia community comes to regarding article content. As I mentioned earlier, you are of course free to try and change that consensus--but you must allow the article to reflect the current consensus at any point in time. I urge you at least give the RfC a try--simply because Yajaec has been ineffective at convincing you of his arguments does not mean he is wrong. We all get a little thick-headed (myself included) when we're sure of ourselves, and sometimes it takes two or three different ways of presenting an argument before those who disagree with you find the one that gets through to you.

Just give it a chance, that's all I'm asking. Help Yajaec see the RfC through to the end--clearly, you're both genuinely interested in making this article the best it can be.

Finally, I do not need to understand the article's subject matter to be an effective advocate. Remember, it's not my job to figure out what the "correct" version of the page is--my job is simply to help editors come to a consensus as to what it is by guiding them through Wikipedia's dispute resolution process. Kurt Weber 22:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

You claim it is indisputable proof; he clearly disagrees. That is the purpose of the RfC--to come to a community consensus about which is correct. Again, it is not enough for you to simply claim victory and then categorically revert any changes he may make. When there is a disagreement among editors, you solicit the input of the community as a whole. If you are unwilling to follow proper Wikipedia dispute resolution procedures, further action may be taken. Kurt Weber 13:02, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think you understand quite what is required of you as a Wikipedian. First off, you must realize that this is a community effort. That means, among other things, that you may not "claim" ownership of articles. Your remark that you "will not allow" Yajaec to edit Saint Seiya unless it contains certain elements [1] indicates that you do indeed assert ownership over that article, a violation of WP:OWN.

Furthermore, being right (if indeed you are--I don't know) does not free you from your obligation to work with others. You claim that the RfC for that article is "unnecessary" because all Yajaec has to do is cite sources that back him up. He believes he has done that. You claim he has not. The whole purpose of the RfC process is to resolve just such disputes between users. Unfortunately, no one uninvolved in the dispute has chosen to offer his input. This is regrettable; however, there are still several options available to resolve the dispute--but merely claiming "victory" and reverting any edits you disagree with is not one of them, regardless of how right you may be.

Finally, I must insist that you stop referring to Yajaec's edits to that page as "Vandalism". Just because you are convinced you are right--and are convinced you have adequately demonstrated how right you are--does not make adding what you call "misinformation" vandalism. If malicious intent is not obvious--and it is not in this case--then you must show that he did indeed have malicious intent rather than being simply mistaken about a question of fact. If you continue referring to his edits as "vandalism" without showing this to be true, it may be considered a violation of WP:CIVIL. Kurt Weber 17:46, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

The issue is not whether or not you consider it to be "misinformation", or whether or not it actually is "misinformation". The issue is: did the individual who added the content honestly believe it to be incorrect? You may be convinced that you have sufficiently proved that his edits are incorrect, but that is not sufficient--Wikipedia runs on consensus, not your assertions. The fact that Yajaec has agreed to refrain from editing the article until a consensus can be reached is a certain indicator of good faith--and the rest of the Wikipedia community will agree with me. If you continue to reject the need to find a consensus and instead simply deem your assertions sufficient, and if you continue to assume bad faith on the part of Yajaec and consider him to be a "vandal", you may very well find yourself blocked for violating Wikipedia's No Personal Attacks policy. Kurt Weber 21:00, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Aroon Alone

Hi there, i where just wondering how you got アルーン to Aroon, when the kanji means Aruun.

[edit] Revert

May i know why you have revert in tomb raider : anniversary?. --SkyWalker 14:07, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dragon World

Please see Talk:Dragon World dispute for your vote on whether we should keep the Human (Dragon World) article or have it merged into Dragon World. Thanks! Power level (Dragon Ball) 15:34, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

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