Talk:Flag of Iraq

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I'm sure the official flag of Iraq will be different than what is shown here (Saddam's handwriting is not going to play in the new Iraq), so this page will have to change. In fact, this page is probably already inaccurate since there are new people in charge of Iraq. I'd say that as of 4/24/04, there is no official flag of Iraq.

I disagree: the flag of an occupied country doesn't change just because it is occupied and the occupiers or people under their control say it should. Local news in Germany have mentioned that the United Nations at their headquarters in New York are still flying the "old" and arguably real current flag of Iraq, and that they are not going to change that until there is a truly sovereign Iraq again. I vote that someone check the UN headquarters building every once in a while and that we abide by the authority of that international body.
In the meantime, the "new" Iraqi flag should be introduced as what it really is: a draft for a future flag, in use by the occupying power of that country, but without legitimacy until a sovereign Iraq government asks the UN to change it (and this means real sovereignty, not "partial sovereignty").
The main picture on this page must therefore remain that of the pre-war flag of Iraq, if this is supposed to be an encyclopedia, and impartial.

Little task for someone: draw an older flag from http://www.britishempire.co.uk/maproom/iraq.htm

I got my information about the earlier flags from the FOTW site. Specifically:
  • 1920. This is confusing: the order of the tricolor bands changes (to observe heraldic rules about tinctures touching, one reference appears to imply); the triangle is sometimes shown truncated; the two stars come and go.
  • 1924: the truncated triangle variant.
  • 1959: the short-lived pre-Baath flag.

Just in case anyone's in the mood to draw flags. Hajor 13:48, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)

The new flag can be controversial, but it is much prittier than the rest. It is the best flag on the comparison list. Pedro 00:59, 15 May 2004 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] The comparison list: Sudan vs. Jordan

I created another version of this image, [[1]], in which I replaced the Sudanese flag with the Jordanian one. I found the Jordanian flag much more appropriate, considering their geographical adjacency and the special relationship between them. --Jeru 16:25, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

[edit] List of flags

Is anyone aware of the List of flags with blue article as well as 5 other pages of this kind, which are for red, white, yellow, green, and black?? In determining which list the flag of Iraq goes, which of the 2 flags determines the lists where the flag of Iraq goes?? 66.32.132.150 01:03, 15 May 2004 (UTC)

May I suggest you include both of them, as [[Flag of Iraq|Flag of Iraq (last modified in 1991)]] and [[Flag of Iraq|Flag of Iraq (2004 interim govt. proposal)]]? Hajor 01:39, 15 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia is out of reality with the Iraqi flag

Why is Wikipedia showing the 2004-project flag as if it were an officially used flag of Iraq? Nobody uses that white flag, not even the Iraqi officials appointed by the US occupation power.

I have to agree. Every press conference of Allawi's government that I've seen on TV had the old (Saddam-era) flag. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the new flag has quietly been junked. -- ChrisO 17:20, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I thing showing the white flag the way it is is very POV and misleading.

About the way to write the arabic words in the Iraqi flag; I never saw the ugly childish handwriting shown on Wikipedia images; everytime an Iraqi flag is shown on TV (even at some press conferences done by previous iraqi govenrment at the beginning of the war) the writting on the flag was better looking. 212.100.178.141 16:01, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I've done a little bit of twiddling to emphasise that the white flag appears to have been abanoned - how does that look? I can't speak for the quality of writing, not being Arabic. Morwen - Talk 20:15, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I think what anon-IP was refering to was the old Saddam-era flag, the writing as it is now seems to have been added by someone not at all proficient in writing Arabic. The words should look a bit more like this (without the vowels, of course). An example of this in usage is at the bottom of this MSNBC article. The problem is that the original CIA flag on which this is based also seems to have this problem, which means thousands of sites on the Internet carry the flag with this type of writing. Photoshoping the flag to add a typical Naskh-ish rendering shouldn't be that difficult... —Gabbe 12:30, Jul 15, 2004 (UTC)

"The flag of Iraq has had four different designs – plus one failed proposal – since the creation of Iraq in 1921."

I don't know, but I'd tend to think that, over time, there may very well have been other failed proposals besides just the 2004 one. Can anyone say for sure? I don't want the first sentence to contain a possible inaccuracy. Everyking 18:47, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Proportions of new flag

The image for the current Iraq flag (the one used by the interim government) has a proportion of 1:2, significantly different from the previous flag. Have the proportions really changed this much? – Mateo SA | talk 17:10, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)

I have commented out the conflicting caption and left a note to future editors. [[User:Smyth|– Smyth]] 19:36, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
The proportions are terrible. Also, the red color in the flag was deliberately lightened to a lighter shade of red. Overall, the flag is terrible, but not as terrible as the flag that was proposed before (the blue-yellow-white craziness). --Revolución (talk) 02:37, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 2004 flag controversy section

Since the begining of this month the "2004 flag controversy" section has been turned into a short "2004-" section, and in the intro "but was never adopted" removed from the 2004 flag discussion. This seems incorrect, I don't believe this flag was adopted, nor is it now realistically "one of the possible symbols for Iraq". Neither the Iraqi Transitional Government website nor the CIA World Factbook use the 2004 flag. I propose we revert back to the pre-December version of this article unless someone can provide a source showing that this flag was actually adopted replacing the previous flag in 2004. -- Rwendland 23:27, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

I believe that the controversy section leaves out another facet of the controversy. As I recall, a lot of Iraqis were very upset that the Kurds got a stripe, but there was nothing special on the flag to represent either the Sunni or the Shia. This reinforced the perception that the Americans were simply doing the dirty work of the Kurds, and helping them gain independence from Iraq. I remember people talking about this controversy, but I don't know offhand where to find a source for it. --Descendall 21:53, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Source or remove

Interestingly, the flag had never yet been publicly displayed, sold, or otherwise distributed, so the protesters were burning hand-made flags. Source it, or remove it Sherurcij (talk) (bounties) 14:00, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

There is a picture here, but it impossible for me to tell if it was hand-made. I think it almost certainly was -- I remember seeing that picture the day after the new flag was first announced, and I have a hard time believing that in that short period a flag was actually printed up, sent to a store, and sold to a customer, especially one in Falluja, which was totally dominated by the insurgency at the time. It should be noted that most pictures of American and Israeli flags being burned in the Arab world show hand-made flags. Apparantly American and Israeli flags aren't widely sold in the Arab world. Either that or no one wants to go out and buy one just to burn it. Descendall 21:44, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
While the image is useful, it doesn't suggest that the flags are homemade without violating Wikipedia:NOR - the article on Flag burning doesn't seem to help us either. Speaking just on opinion, it seems quite likely as you say that they'd be homemade, or else prototypes or anything else...while I agree it's highly unlikely that you just walk into a store and "One American/Israeli flag please" and drop your money on the counter, I imagine there are many other ways of getting your hands on them - in this case, it could be a prototype, could be part of an initiative trying to gauge reaction the flag handed out several to community leaders, could have been stolen off an informal flagpole at a base, or to be conspiratorial, a slimy leftist journalist could have smuggled it in ;) (kidding, of course) Anyways, I'm not saying you're lying or anything, merely that it seems it shouldn't be in the article unless we can say "The New York Times reported that the flag burned had been made by the culprit himself" :) Sherurcij (talk) (bounties) 06:39, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Why is the blue and white flag shown?

The blue and white flag should not be shown. It was only a proposal by a couple of American appointed individuals. Nobody ever took it seriously.

Why are you publishing it? This defies all logic. This is BS! (unsigned entry by anonymous user at 72.137.207.206)

The proposed flag is noteworthy for the controversy it created, and as an illustration of American attitudes towards the occupation. In this sense, it should be included here exactly because it is BS! --ScottMainwaring 02:37, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Translation of writing on flags

For the "current" Iraqi flag (top of page), the translation of the Takbir "Allah is the greatest" is used, but for the flag with Saddam's handwriting the translation "God is great" is used. Which is best?--I assume there should be consistency(?)

I Believe that "Allah is the Greatest" is better as a precise translation from Arabic Langauge cause the name 'Allah' is pronounced exactly the same on both languages english and arabic, but the word 'God' is very Generic on many religions other than Islam, Regards. ColdFire 10:23, 24 September 2006 (UTC)