Wikipedia talk:Five pillars

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Archive 1: May 2005 – May 2006 Archive 2: ongoing

Contents 1 Wikipedia is free content 2 Incompatible with the GFDL 3 Contradiction 4 Wikipedia Five Pillars 5 Neutral point of view is unattainable 6 icons 7 Sixth Pillar? 8 So funny.

[edit] Wikipedia is free content

This section talks about text only, but increasingly images and perhaps later video will be important, and these are bound by the same princinples. Perhaps we should mention them at some point. Stephen B Streater 08:21, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Incompatible with the GFDL

What is not incompatible with GNU Free Documentation License?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Faisal.akeel (talk • contribs).

While I am not entirely sure what you're asking, there are a number of licenses that are less demanding than the GFDL, such as the Creative Commons Attribution license, and we tend to treat such licenses more or less the same way as we treat material licensed under the GFDL. Public domain material, obviously, is not licensed at all, and we treat it accordingly. I hope that this answers your question. Jkelly 17:58, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Contradiction

The first "pillar" says: "All articles must follow our no original research policy and strive for accuracy". However, if you click on the "accuracy" link, it takes you to a page which says (as the very first senstence) "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth." Now, to me and surely to most people, "accuracy" would imply that you are striving to include what IS true, but the linked page suggests that what you actually want to include is what other sources SAY is true, regardless of whether it is or not. Indeed, if the policies of Neutral Point Of View and No Original Research are properly applied, then you cannot possibly strive for accuracy. In short, the statement that Wikipedia articles must "strive for accuracy" is itself inaccurate. --Multivitamin 12:30, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Verifiability is a threshhold beyond truth. You cannot know whether a thing is true unless there is some way to check that it is true; for the purposes of a Wikipedia article other editors and readers must be able to check that it is true by finding it in a library or on the Internet. The wording here may warrant changing though. —Centrx→talk • 19:22, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia Five Pillars

I find this very offensive being a muslim and all. Can you change the name of this thanks.... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.110.136.194 (talk • contribs).

I also find it offensive, Is it making fun of Islam (if not, what is the reason for it being used?)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.249.229.58 (talk • contribs) .

Please see Wikipedia talk:Five pillars/Archive2#Disrespectful of Islam. --Quiddity 20:08, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Neutral point of view is unattainable

As a former publisher of a major publication in the state of Tennessee, USA, I must comment that neutrality or lack of bias is not only unrealistic, but dishonest. Everyone has influences that change their perspective on events, whether religious, philosophical, experiential or educational.

A glaring example from history is the U.S. Civil War. Even the name reveals bias. In the South, it is called "The War Between the States". Some even call it "The War of Northern aggression" or "The War for Southern Independence". But the victor writes the history books, therefore, it is called the "Civil War", the Southern Confederacy is depicted as evil Black slave owners and abusers and Abraham Lincoln is depicted as an honest caring man who out of compassion for black men "set the slaves free". The facts are very different -- but that is my bias.

William Cole, email removed —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Whiggish (talk • contribs).

That is true - whether unconsciously or consciously, we do have personal biases and preferences that ultimately influence what we write, our way of thinking, and our way of expressing our thoughts. Yet, in Wikipedia, we strive to accommodate as many people as possible, and work to present a fair abd balanced view of issues to everyone. The end result may not be perfect, but we can still work towards it. –- kungming·2 ^(Talk) | Review 06:30, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I would say that "Civil War" is a bit more newtral than "The War of Northern aggression" and what not, but anyway. You are right to some extent, there are scertain systemic biases evident. However we don't claim to be newtral in every way. Just that we should always strive to be so. Anyway you are free to chime in at Naming the American Civil War wich seem to adress some of your points. --Sherool (talk) 06:32, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] icons

I just noticed that the icons are supposed to be pillars. I had always thought they looked like elongated square academic caps with two tassels hanging from the sides. Jecowa 04:39, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah, well. They're supposed to look like the top of some pillars (Not Doric nor Ionic, funnily enough). But yes, you're right. :) As long as Wikipedians understand the five pillars, the pictures aren't really relevant. –- kungming·2 ^(Talk) 06:53, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Why is it funny that they aren't doric or ionic columns? Jecowa 20:34, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Because Corinthians are inherently hilarious?! :) -Quiddity 20:52, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I thought it was funny because many pillars are usually Hellenistic in some ways. I like the Ironic Columns that Williams College has at their art museum (see my picture at the article). :) –- kungming·2 ^(Talk) 01:09, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sixth Pillar?

Forgive my whimsical curiosity. If the 5 pillars of wikipedia are a sort of loosely laid homage to Islaam, is there a sixth unofficial and highly controversial sixth pillar of sorts which wikipedians are divided over following? Sorry for posting a stupid question on the discussion place of an important topic, but....well, answer anyone?--Mr Bucket 04:25, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but "they" deleted the discussion on it. Jecowa 04:31, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe our title has anything to do with Islam, just a naming coincidence. Pillars of is a common metaphor for describing some thing's fundamentals. -Quiddity 10:53, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] So funny.

This page used to be "editable" before I kept vandalizing it. Now it's locked, and I've made an impact on Wikipedia.

That's what you get for deleting my article on a certain webcomic. Why do they ALL get marked for deletion? I'll tell you why.

Wikipedia is for ferrets. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.60.36.236 (talk) 03:41, 15 December 2006 (UTC).