Talk:Fireman's chair knot

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Fireman's chair knot article.
Please sign and date your posts using four tildes (~~~~). New discussion topics go at the bottom of the page; click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Frequently asked questions. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Talk page guidelines Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Don't bite the newcomers!

This article is part of WikiProject Knots, an attempt to better organize information in articles related to knots. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

The "Handcuff knot" and the "Fireman's chair knot" are different knots.

The "Handcuff knot" is tied off with an "Overhand knot" or "Reef knot" at the second stage on your diagram.

The "Fireman's chair knot" is built upon the "Handcuff knot".

In my opinion, they really shouldn't be on the same page.

-- 144.138.21.175 20:09, 7 August 2005

OK, have a look now -- I've done a diagram of what I think you mean, and moved part of the page to Handcuff knot. Ojw 19:45, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Man-o'war sheepshank

This knot looks awfully similar to the Man-o'war sheepshank. Are they in fact the same? -Shai-kun 17:55, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

The structure the knots in both diagrams is identical. Since use is different, different names may be argued for. This is the position Clifford Ashley takes in The Ashley Book of Knots.

"A different way either of tying or applying a form generally constitutes a second knot." (ABoK re. knots #1 and #2)

Whether this approach is reasonable is probably a matter of taste.

Note: As for the names used in this specific case, "Fireman's Chair" I was unable to find in the ABoK and "Man-o'-War Sheepshank" (ABoK #1164) is given (as one of three names) for a knot that is somewhat different from the version on wikipedia. (The difference being the direction the half hitches are tied.)

--Netizen 22:45, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

BTW, Ashley also shows the half hitches the other way at #1140, where they are being used to lock the Handcuff knot. Regarding whether Man-o'War sheephank belongs here, I think that reasonable to leave it on the sheepshank page, given the distinct usage and the fact the half-hitches are purposely made out away from the overhand portion of the knot. In general I think the organization of related knot articles should be a matter of case-by-case judgement, particularly taking into account what makes sense from the WP user's point of view. Adhering to an inflexible scheme, such as implementing what that Ashley quote implies, would (IMHO) do more harm than good... --Dfred 05:15, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] First panel of diagram is incorrect

The first panel of Image:Firemans chair knot.png is incorrect and results in a Tom fool's knot instead of a Handcuff knot. The right loop should be behind the left, in the manner of a clove hitch. Actually, in order to arrive at the knot in the second panel, the loops have to be made in the other direction (overhand or underhand, depending on which side one considers the standing part) and then crossed-over in the manner of a clove hitch before the loops are pulled through one another. Hopefully that makes sense. The same is true for the diagram at Image:Handcuff knot.png --Dfred 05:15, 27 November 2006 (UTC)