Talk:Final Fantasy IX

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  • copyedit throughout
  • gameplay, development, reception sections need more references
  • expand development, reception sections
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Contents

[edit] computer role-playing game?

The article states that FFIX is a "computer role-plaing game", yet I can't find any place that sells FFIX on the PC platform. I was under the impression that this game was only released on console? Anyone care to verify this?

I think there was no computer version of FF IX. A console is still, technically, a computer (as said in the computer game article), but maybe we should change this to 'video game', if everyone agrees --goncalopp 22:06, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Disagree. Computer roleplaying games is a general term for Console RPGs. — Deckiller 22:27, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Also diagree. CRPG refers to all games of this type regardless of platform. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 15:14, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
Please note that the terms computer role-playing game and console role-playing game are not platform distinctions. They are two completely different genres, only loosely connected by a stat-driven battle system. Please see the talk page in Final Fantasy VIII and you'll see why Final Fantasy games should be branded as console role-playing games. I'm changing this for now, I hope you all agree with me after thoroughly reading the subject. --Tristam 20:23, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV issues

"FFIX was revolutionary to the Final Fantasy series in several ways, including a deep, mystical story, beautiful new graphics..."

Seems a little POV to me. –Matt 09:25, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Yes, that's horrible POV. Keep that out of the article, please. Fanboyism is not what this project is after. --Michiel Sikma 16:40, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Final Fantasy IX Is different,good...but different.



[edit] Credits

Do we really need the production credits at the bottom of the page? It seems like a waste of space to me. Maybe just mentioning they key people would suffice, the other final fantasy game articles don't have all the credits. --Vanguard 09:46, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

A couple of them do, actually. Personally, I see them as more important for a research tool like an encyclopedia than the lengthy story or character summaries, which are, in general, better suited to fansites and FAQs. Someone who actually wants to perform quasi-scholarly research on the game is going to likely be more interested in who created it than anything. – Seancdaug 15:44, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Grammar

Minor grammar edits in the "Criticism" section (proper form of its/it's; better use of commas, things like that), including one minor wording edit ("criticised mainly for its graphics but also..." to "...not only for its graphics, but also..."). Original message, meaning, and otherwise wording still intact.--Erazzmus 09:19, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Looks much improved. Thanks! – Seancdaug 10:02, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Story

I have added the attention template because there is no mention at all of the game story. Not even an introduction. The articles for every other FF have a section on the story. Rdysn5 01:54, July 12, 2005 (UTC)


I removed the attention template, since I've done about 2/3 of the story on a seperate page - I was going to finish it, but I got kind of burned out. I'll go back to it in a day or two, but I figure people can start looking at it and editing it now. MrCheshire 20:53, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Criticism and Low Sales" section

The criticism and low sales section is, IMO, verging dangerous close to POV-pushing, and is desperately in need of some form of citation, I think. Plus, some of it seems to be entirely tangential (the bit about FF8, for instance, seems to go pretty far afield). I was half-tempted to strike and/or rewrite the whole section, and if necessary incorporate the relevant points into another section. But I'm not convinced that's the right path myself, and it certainly seems too extreme to undertake without first getting others' input. Does anyone else have any thoughts? – Seancdaug 03:16, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

Being the guy who wrote it, I think there is a place for a "Critism" section; but if you have some ideas as to exactly what should change, I'm open to constructive critism myself. I was thinking that it could be altered to a section like the "Fanbase and Critism" section in the Final Fantasy VIII article, which is more of a "Fan Reaction" section; perhaps that would be a bit less controversial? -- VederJuda 12:13, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
Dangerously close, yes. There is certain truth to FFVIII's success, however. It was hyped so much that it sold nearly 3 million in a week. That section is well worth having. Sam-EL
Personally, I'd call dangerously close an understatement. I read it as something of an FF/Square fanboy tirade against detractors of the game--particularly the discrediting of those who only played VII and VIII. - 211.28.80.58 08:51, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
None of the aspects of the game that were praised were mentioned in the article. Why not include that somewhere? GI Judd 17:24, 11 October 2006 (UTC)



[edit] Final Fantasy IX story

This article strikes me as a little odd. In general, we don't have seperate articles for stories, and I sort of feel that the content is too long and detailed, as is. Does anyone have any objections to paring it down substantially and moving it here? – Seancdaug 05:18, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

I prefer it the way it is. — VederJuda 05:33, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
I dislike it myself, as I stated in Talk:Final Fantasy III#Story. When I suggested the article be wikified a few months ago, it lead to a multitude of red links (which can lead to potential unneeded articles and either useless redirects or annoying AfDs). I feel the same way about the long story sections in FFIII and FFIV. And there's too many BitTorrent otaku to prevent the Advent Children plot summary from being a description of the entire film. I say get rid of it FFIX story...maybe we should bring this discussion to the project talk. ~ Hibana 06:38, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
After working on trimming it and wikifying it for several hours, I became WP:BOLD and merged some key elements into the plot summary section, transwiki the rest, and redirected. If people object, we can always revert. Deckiller 04:31, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


I've removed the line about Necron being summoned from the Crystal as that's altogether inaccurate. The being was the Iifa Tree's core function. More can be read about that here:

http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/final_fantasy_ix_plot.txt

While this is certainly fan research being cited here, there's no indication at all that Necron arose from the Crystal being that Kuja's Ultima Spell clearly fizzles out well before its blast radius could have consumed the Crystal. It's not a major change to the article. It's just removing a bit of innacurate -- and not very relevant -- information from a sentence that still functions fine without it.

Ryu Kaze 7:31 PM January 28, 2006

-=Nods=- yeah, it was original research anyway. I removed a lot of the orginal research and fancruft when I merged and rewrote, but I left that one up for debate. Deckiller 00:33, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


Just to say so in case no one else has, you did a nice job with ensuring that the Story section sounds encyclopedic and that it serves its purpose as a general interest column. Way too often do articles turn into essays. Just look at Cloud Strife's entry on the site. Anyway, again, good job.

Ryu Kaze 7:38 January 28, 2006

Thanks for the comment :). Have you thought about starting a username and joining the Wikiproject? We could use your help. Deckiller 01:34, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
And done.

Ryu Kaze 04:19, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

i own the game and thought it was great at first the in game movies were awsome but i didn't like the enemies for some reason no matter how many levels i gained i couldn't beat the final boss for instance when i first fought him at level twenty i almost killed him. but when i came back at level 40 i did worse than before. what is up with that.

[edit] Garnet picture

Image:FF9_Dagger.jpg isn't exactly the best possible picture for Dagger. It'd be great if someone could find a shot of her in a more neutral pose rather than right after waking up. --Michiel Sikma 16:39, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I've done that, hope that's better --goncalopp 19:21, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merchandising

Has anyone thoroughly researched the entire FFIX franchise enough to make a statement about its vast merchandising? It doesn't stop at soundtracks and wall scrolls, from what I've seen, but extend to at least two coffee table art books, t-shirts, keychains, and who can forget the Japanese Coca-Cola commercial? It might not be much compared to other games like Halo, but within the Final Fantasy series, it must be the best advertised.

The coca-cola thing should definitly be added. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 19:23, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
On a game fair (I believe it was Spiel! at Essen, Germany) I visited a few years back, I played a card-version of Tetra Master. Don't know whether the game is still for sale or where, though... -- Bakabaka 17:21, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Getting this article Featured

Okay, here's how I plan on tackling this. I'm sick, and I have the rest of the day free, so I'm going to try and enhance this article as much as possible. Here's what I'm going to work on:

  1. Trim the story section by 1-2 sentences and add in-game dialogue references.
  2. Prosify several sections and add in references from interviews and articles online, as well as cutting out a LOT of excess information and adding in a few key ideas.
  3. Fixing prose all around
  4. Enhancing the criticism section by removing POV and weasel words and adding in a variety of figures and reviews.

Yes, I'm back :) — Deckiller 18:42, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

  • Completely changing the structure of the Reception section. — Deckiller 18:52, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
Something needs to be done about the Allusions and influences section; it's supposed to contain examples, not a growing list of EVERY connection to the other games. Perhaps it can be put into a well organized set of paragraphs. Also, 86 the Production credits, it's red links galore. ~ Hibana 23:39, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
Agree, I plan on prosifying that section or including any revenant info into the resepctive sections once everything starts to come together. I think the credits are completely unnecessary; FFX is a FA and it didn't need any. — Deckiller 23:58, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
The characters section needs to be downgraded immensely. It really should be completely rewritten to look like the Playable characters section on the FF7 or FF10 pages. Geg 23:47, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. Tomorrow is my last day of high school, and my job isn't full-time, so I'll have plenty of time to work on this article over the next week. — Deckiller 11:25, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question

This doesn't... particularly relate to the article, but who was the scenario writer for Final Fantasy IX? It isn't listed in the credits and it wasn't Kazushige Nojima, apparently. Geg 02:18, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV problems with the reception section

I've tagged the reception section with {{npov-section}}. A couple of the things I've noticed:

  • "It must be noted, however, that these failures were mostly considered from people who started playing the series starting from Final Fantasy VII and thus were more accustomed to the two entries preceding Final Fantasy IX." There are a few problems with this:
    • It's very probably not true. I'll see your unsourced generalization and raise you my personal experience as a long-time fan of the series when the game was released, which says that there was just as much criticism from "old school" fans as there was from "newbies," and just as much praise from the newbies as from the old schoolers. But I wouldn't dare suggest that my personal observations accounted for anything more than a non-random, unrepresentative sampling. To suggest that "most" people felt a certain way, and to offer no support for that claim, is ridiculous.
    • So what if it was true? It seems openly confrontational and dismissive, and I'm not sure what it adds to the article, information-wise. It characterizes an entire strain of criticism before any of the points of that criticism have been identified (i.e., "they hated it because it was different and they didn't give it a chance"). I admit I may be missing something here, though, if anyone has read it differently.
  • "First, Final Fantasy IX was seen as an attempt to return the Final Fantasy series to its fantasy roots, after the other two PlayStation incarnations featured many Sci-fi elements... this appealed to older fans, fans of the newer games were likely turned off by the change in direction." We're conflating fantasy with medieval fantasy. I think calling Final Fantasy VIII, a game replete with such fantasy genre staples as sorceresses, science fiction is faintly ridiculous, honestly. We're solidly into speculation with the second half of the quote above. If the change turned people off, then presumably we can find notable sources that indicate so. If we can't, then we shouldn't make stuff up.
  • Regarding the PS2: "people who bought the new system spent their money on new games to get the full power out of it." Not citation in support. Not even an attempt at correlating sales figures (which would be problematic as original research, in and of itself). Can we cite a source indicating a significant trend of gamers who would have bought Final Fantasy IX, had they not spent all their money on PS2 launch titles?
  • "This was widely regarded as a bad move, as people buy strategy guides to have the info conveniently collected and in front of them while playing; this was especially true for Final Fantasy games, because of the many secret locations, side-quests and hidden items." We're making a sort of broad assertion of why people buy strategy guides. Even if it's true, we should cite support for it (and probably rewrite it in a less condescending tone, IMO). It's also sensationalist in its claim that the Final Fantasy series is substantively different from other series.
  • Particularly in the last paragraph, we go overboard with weasel words: "some felt," "was considered," "seen by many fans as inferior." We've actually got a review cited for this paragraph, which is good, but that only really encapsulates the reviewer's opinion. We're not saying that "Andrew Vestal felt..." or "seen by Andrew Vestal as inferior." We're making vast claims about a fairly large number of people.

I didn't want to take a cleaver to the section myself before sounding out for some degree of consensus, though. So... thoughts, anyone? Suggestions? Disagreements? Death threats? ;-) – Seancdaug 07:03, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I can take care of it if you want; I've done about four of these sections in the past. — Deckiller 07:25, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

while youre right about the sourceless info, i think the differentiation as a departure from the sci-fi feel is important, and although it may be some sort of POV, does re-create elements used in older games. I doubt the "feel" of a game is information, but its still important to recognize the difference.

[edit] Necron

Necron is NOT the ultimate eidolon. Nowhere in the game does it say that. It was, in fact, Alexander. Remember the text in the game? The ultimate eidolon was divided into four crystals - that's what Brahne was after for half the game, but two end up with Garnet and two end up with Eiko. Then they come together to summon Alexander when the four crystals are together. I've just played through the game - again - so I have a pretty good understanding of the plot. Kuja never destroys the Crystal either; the Crystal is still spinning in the air when the screen vanishes and the companions end up in - essentially - Hell. Necron says "When he sought to destroy the crystal, the purpose of life ended." Not when he DID destroy the Crystal, but when he SOUGHT to. Furthermore - had he destroyed the Crystal - Necron wouldn't have his job to do because the universe would already have been returned to a state of non-existence. I'd appreciate if someone would revert the plot to the correct account, because I have no desire to get into an edit war. --Tristam 19:30, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Huh? I just copy and pasted that part of the story from the edits, lol. — Deckiller 03:14, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
None of that was included in my original edit. >_> --Tristam 03:28, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Hmm, I must've taken it from the original summary. — Deckiller 03:29, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Ah yes, now that I think about it I do recall that was the text from the original summary. That was also part of Necron (Final Fantasy IX) before I merged it with List of Final Fantasy IX characters with the correct account. For the record, the full game script of FF9 can be found here (scroll down to Shotgonnuva's game script). (edit: Forgot you can't directly link GameFAQs guides) --Tristam 03:32, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I have to add script citations and all that. It probably won't meet the 119 references (and possibly surpassing 130 by the end) of Final Fantasy VII, but it's all good :) — Deckiller 03:37, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Thanks Deckiller. So I presume that you're going to go with my original edit (not necessarily the prose, but the basic material)? --Tristam 03:42, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Of course. — Deckiller 03:53, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 :thumbsup: dude. --Tristam 04:13, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Check out my concerns on the Final Fantasy VII page. — Deckiller 04:22, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Short Wikibreak

In the hopes of attaining strategic distance and keeping myself from burning out, I'm taking a five day leave. I request that nobody make sweeping changes, as the sole reason for taking this break is to give me energy to undertake this project. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Deckiller (talk • contribs).

[edit] Amarant's character article

What happened to Amarant's article? All of the other FFIX party members have their own articles, yet his has been removed. Why did that happen? NeoSeifer

Amarant badly failed WP:Notability. The entire character analysis can easily be fit into the List of Final Fantasy IX characters. There's really no third party coverage over Amarant anyways - or other Final Fantasy IX characters for that matter. Ideally, all characters should be merged within the list, but I'm sure it will raise a few flags with those who treat Wikipedia as GameFAQs. --Tristam 15:07, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Story section problems

The story section has some problems. The first is minor: the character of Garnet is referred to alternatively as either Garnet or Dagger. Only one name should be used in a summary (Garnet). Second (and not unlike the characters page), this section seems to make a lot of references to things that aren't explained in the story. "...Brahne begins extracting eidolons from Garnet." What are eidolons and why do they need to be extracted from Garnet? "...Cleyra, a kindgom shielded by a perpetual windstorm. Alexandria's ground forces invade the city..." If it was shielded, how did they invade it? And though I understand the concept of summons (having played FF7 a long time ago), referred to in the next part, someone else might not. (These summons appear to be the eidolons, but I had to infer that—it was never explained.) "...the party learns that Kuja was sighted at the Iifa Tree." The what? What is the "Ifa Tree?" "At the Iifa Tree, the party destroys the Tree's mechanism for distributing the mist, thus stopping its flow." Why? "To destroy him, she summons Bahamut, an eidolon and the king of dragons. Kuja uses the Invincible to turn Bahamut against Brahne, which destroys the entire fleet and kills Brahne." Invincible? Huh? What? Where did this come from and why didn't Kuja use it before if it can do as much damage as it sounds like it can. (Ditto Bahamut, really.)

And so forth. IMO, the story summary needs to be written in such a way so that you could read it any understand the story of the game without reading anything else. As it is now, it's not readable without reading a number of other things first (which, in turn, might not make any sense without reading the summary :) ). RobertM525 19:32, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Characters

I'm going to be bold and change this section. It's become flawed and clunky, and feels extremely disorganized. It looks too much like a narrative, and not enough like a roster, which it should be. If you want to change it back, that's up to you guys. PantherFoxie 23:29, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

That's fine for now, but when we do the FA push for this article, it's going to have to be converted back to prose in a different manner. — Deckiller 17:42, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Necron: creation of Garland or natural force of nature?

I'm confused. I thought that Necron had nothing to do with Garland's plans at all, but you seem to suggest otherwise. I've played through the whole game, and it was never mentioned that Garland created Necron. Either I'm missing something, or someone's not quite paying attention to the in-game conversations. Maetch 00:48, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

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