Talk:Figure skating

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Contents

[edit] In Disciplines: Synchronized Skating

Which is allowed and which isn't?

Spirals are not allowed but jumps of more than one revulotion are not permmited as well as lifts. Synchronized skating includes levels comparable to that of other more popular forms of skating. National and world championships are also held.Lmblackjack21 13:32, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

  • This material is both inaccurate and confusing (spirals certainly are allowed in synchro, for instance), so I've removed it, along with the redundant material on the "freestyle skating" bullet which is already discussed elsewhere in the article. (Besides, "freestyle skating" is not a competition discipline.) I suggest that folks who want to add to this article read the whole thing first and make sure that (a) they are really adding new information and (b) that they are adding it in a place that fits in with the overall organization of the article. And, of course, (c) make sure the information you add is really correct. Dr.frog 16:14, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
    • Britannica says that that stuff about synchronized skating is true. It says spirals are allowed, jumps of more than one revulotion are not allowed and lifts are not allowed. [1] --24.247.126.44 16:32, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Hmmm. Copyrighted material from Britannica should not be inserted verbatim into Wikipedia. On top of that, in this instance, Britannica is also not an authoritative source about the rules of the sport; one should refer to the ISU Regulations instead. Dr.frog 19:43, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
  • The page was saying that spirals, jumps and lifts were not allowed. Lmblackjack21 22:40, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Selected on Template:March 20 selected anniversaries (may be in HTML comment)

Regarding Chen Lu: Chen's surname is 'Chen'. Her given name is 'Lu'. She should be alphabetized under her surname like the other skaters, which means under 'C'. Her name is 'Chen Lu', not 'Lu Chen', so the listing should say 'Chen Lu', not 'Lu Chen'. Dominus 13:26 3 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Well, if this is the English wiki and all, here in English we have a very established convention that family names come after first names; which would make her name Lu Chen. Pizza Puzzle

Just because we have an established convention that english family names come after given names doesn't mean we need to impose that convention on others. A person's name is important to them. Theresa knott 13:55 3 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Nobody is imposing a name upon Lu; Lu and Chen are two seperate names; it is not a matter of cultural difference, it is a matter of beauraucratic difference. There needs to be a way to list names that is uniform - in the west we put the last name last; they do it differently elsewhere. But we must preserve uniformity; otherwise, Lus name will be changed; people will continue to insist that her first name is Chen; afterall, it is listed first. Pizza Puzzle

I do see your point. But I do think that how a name ordered is important. My name is Theresa Knott. In that order. The Theresa and the Knott aren't two seperate names, they are two parts of the same name. Lu's name is Chen Lu. It is how she is known. If we change her name to Lu Chen people will assume it's a different skater. Theresa knott 14:30 3 Jul 2003 (UTC)

All I can say is WTF. So her last name is Chen but her first name is Lu. But she likes to be called Chen Lu. Can someone show proof that her last name is in fact Chen. I have never met a Chinese person who called themselves <surname> <firstname>. I have met Chinese people who told English people to call them by their last name, for example, Zhizhong Yan, we just call him Yan, but everyone knows that his real first name is Zhizhong. Can someone explain why she orders her name different, or explain how you know that her last name is Chen, and not Lu. Let's stick it under "L" so that dumb English people who assume her last name is "Lu" will find it under "L". dave 15:09 3 Jul 2003 (UTC)

In China, Japan, and in many Asian countries, the order of the name is <family name> <personal name>. Most commonly, if a person naturalizes to an english speaking country, they will switch the order of their names (i.e. Japanese Pop star Utada Hikaru, who is known as Hikaru Utada in Japan). However, a person should be refered to however they wish, according to their culture; consider basketball superstar Yao Ming. Yao is his family name (you can verify this because his father's name is Yao Zhiyuan. As you can see, the basketball press correctly identify him as "Yao Ming", even though his basketball jersey, which traditionally has last names, reads "Yao". There is no problem here. The correct format here is to alphabetize her under the letter 'C', but list her name as "Chen Lu". -DropDeadGorgias 15:53 3 Jul 2003 (UTC)
The Chicago Manual of Style suggests just this solution (#18.113): "Chinese personal names generally consist of three syllables, the one syllable family name coming first, the two-syllable given name following. In romanized form both names are capitalized; in the Wade-Giles system the given name is hyphenated, in pinyin, closed up." (examples given) "When alphabetizing Chinese names that are written in traditional form, with family name first, do not invert, and use no commas." 118.114: "Some Chinese names consist of only two syllables....These names too should be alphabetized without inversion." -- Someone else 17:49 3 Jul 2003 (UTC)

To Theresa Knott --Since Chen Lu has become a professional and resides in the United States, SHE has "Americanized" her name and is now known as "Lu Chen." She is often referred to by choreographer/commentator Sandra Bezic (who I am sure knows her well) as "Lu Lu."

OK fair enough theresa knott 15:20, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)

--Oobopshark

[edit] "Figure Skating" Article Content (or lack thereof)

Dear Wikipedia:

In the above-mentioned article I have noticed a contradiction and an omission:

CONTRADICTION: You mention that ALL six jumps in figure skating are landed on the right back outside edge. Yet, when you list the jumps in a subsequent paragraph, you mention that the "loop" jump is landed on the LEFT back outside edge. Which is it?

OMISSION: In the same article, you have a caption entitled, "Ice Dancing," yet you NEVER mention anything about ice dancing. The entirety of that subsection does naught but describe a figure skating competition and the elements contained therein. "Ice dancing" has completely different moves than pairs figure skating, in that there are no jumps and the female cannot be lifted above the male's head. Whatever happened to the subject of ice dancing?

-- Oobopshark

"Whatever happened to the subject of ice dancing", eh? Well, that would be being described in its own, seperate, ice dancing article! Though I think there's a couple of debatable bits in there, I have to admit. Runa27 04:02, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Do you know anything about ice dancing ? Can you fix the article omission please ? theresa knott 15:20, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)

This is the best Web page about Figure Skating ever!!!

"This is the best page for getting information on Figure Skating, it is so good that other sites use it!" - Mr. Skunk

[edit] "Notable" figure skaters

This list seems very random to me. What, exactly, makes a skater "notable"? It seems like some people have just added their favorite skaters to this list, regardless of their lack of "notability", while many great champions are not listed at all.

I suggest that this section be deleted, and instead that the World Figure Skating Championships page be filled in to list all medallists and not just champions, and that a similar page be created to list medallists at the Olympic games. That should pretty much cover the truly "notable" skaters without getting into POV disputes about whether a skater is "notable" or not. Dr.frog 23:50, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Why not just remove the word Notable instead? Much easier. :D --Pelladon 03:35, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

The list of the world championships is now a list of all medalists. Also the navigation lists include a lot of famous skaters. Removing the "notable" list is possible now but may be done by somebody else. It should be agreed among figure skating fans. However, I do not like the word "notable" either. Uwe Langer 21:21, 25 November 2005 (CET)

  • Thanks for all your work on assembling these lists. I'm still in favor of deleting the whole "notable skaters" section, if we can reach consensus that's the right thing to do. If somebody feels strongly that their favorite skater (not listed elsewhere) needs to be in Wikipedia, let 'em at least write a stub article and add it to the appropriate category. Dr.frog 23:50, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Of course I agree of deleting "notable skaters". If somebody really wants his favorite skater in Wikipedia he/she can still do so and put him/her in the category skaters sorted by nationality. Uwe Langer 18:20, 27 November 2005 (CET)

[edit] other

Hi, I don't know much about editing Wikipedia, but I removed some nonsense stuff (e.g. "{hello people lol}") from the text. I'm sure it will not be missed. 65.7.151.65 00:05, 26 January 2006 (UTC)


I'd like to see the olympic champions and possibly other champions in table format, with year, name and country or some sort of relevant information.

I think that would be a good idea for a Figure Skating at the Olympics category/article (much like the Curling at the Olympics and other such categories) -- Ipstenu 16:28, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

awesome!!!!!!!!

[edit] Jumps and spins content

This article contains more (and clearer) information about jumps and spins than the articles devoted to those subjects. Perhaps someone who knows about these topics than I do could consider moving or merging some content. --Shantavira 19:41, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

There are no pictures on this page! I'm trying to find a "main" picture that just shows figure skating in general. --24.247.126.44 18:56, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Undue burden on the body?

Something is bad with this sport if no lady has ever won aged more than 24 years! Does it destroy the spine or the joints?

First - that is incorrect. Jayne Torvill, of the internationally reknowned ice dancing pair Torvill and Dean, won Bronze at the 1994 Olympics (Gold at the 1984 Sarajevo games as well) - and she was in her late 30s. Yes, 30s. Not 20s, 30s. Her LATE 30s. Yes, I realize it isn't as ZOMG SPECIAL to win Bronze or Silver, but it sure as hell counts as "winning" SOMETHING, considering all the places below third aren't even acknowledged at the Olympics; only the top three winners are. Just because it was Bronze doesn't mean she "lost" anything except for a chance a higher-prestige medal (but hey, I'd take an Olympic Bronze any day, wouldn't you? :P). And yes, folks, Ice Dancing is a major competitive, ISU-sanctioned form of figure skating, hence, it is a prominent version of the sport!
Actually, as a matter of fact, according to the Wikipedia page on her, Jayne Torvill's first skating win with her partner, Cristopher Dean, was when she was at the age of 14 in 1971. This places her age during the 1984 Olympics (the Gold-snagging performence at which they are positively famous for, to the point where the musical piece they performed to, Boléro, is now forever associated with Torvill and Dean in the minds of sports fans) at 27.
Anyway, the sport in and of itself isn't the problem. The problem is that, more so than a lot sports, it is practiced on what I like to call a "senior-esque" level when some kids have yet to hit puberty. "Juniors" skaters? They play the same exact sport (albeit I doubt too many Men's Juniors do quadruple jumps, which are fairly common in Men's Senior figure skating), but they have to be younger than 15 (IIRC) to do it in that category, and from what I can tell, many if not most Senior skaters got their start in Juniors; and certainly, I've actually never once heard of an Olympic-level skater having begun learning the sport PAST the age of about 10 or 11, because there's this impression in the skating world that you have to be super-young to start learning to skate well enough to achieve a good skill level that you can retain for several years. It's a very youth-oriented sport, especially on the Olympic and World Championship level. The problem inherent in this is that until about your mid-twenties, your bones, and the rest of your body as well, are still developing. That said...
Now, skating doesn't, IIRC, do much to the spine. I'm no doctor, but I'd argue that needing to keep such flexibility, stability and balance on the equivalent of a steak knife attached to your boot neccessitates a lot more stretching and prepping and care of the spine than one would normally do, and hence actually might HELP the spine by reducing stiffness in the surrounding muscles (I know for a fact that most of my own lower back pain is purely muscular, because doing certain spine-oriented yoga moves or getting a massage typically makes every ounce of it go away).
The sport does, however, put some pretty hefty emphasis on the knees, what with all of a person's weight having to be one one edge of one tiny blade on one foot, and especially with all those jumps, and throw jumps, particularly doubles and above, which would take more force on liftoff and have more momentum on landing.
Women, unfortunately, due to our lovely "childbearing" hips, get knee problems far more easily than men; due to the shape of our pelvis, our femur is placed at an angle to the knee, making it much easier to put too much pressure in a bad spot and mess up the joint (women suffer from a lot more misplaced knee caps then men do, let's just put it that way). Since most if not all of the World/Olympic level female skaters start before puberty (heck, I just told you that Jayne Torvill was 14 when she won her first British National Championship title, that's barely even pubescent, adn that's Senior level! After Tara Lipinski, they changed the "Senior" minimum age level at 15, as I recall), that means that women winning at age 24 have been skating for at LEAST a decade, in some cases, it would mean a decade and a half or more.
In short: yeah, after all that time, it's hard on the knees, particularly if the woman is unlucky enough to have been not-so-blessed with particularly BAD knees. In fact, if you've ever wondered why Men's skating is so full of quad jumps, when Ladies and Pairs skating have almost NOBODY doing quads, and most people doing even a lot of doubles in lieu of triples? That would be why; such jumps are physically harder on women's knees than on men's, more prone to damaging women's knees, and therefore, for many, just not worth the risk.
On a side note, though: the sport seems to have a tendency to attract people who like to compete on the Olympic/World level for a few years, and then "retire" from ISU and especially Olympic competition. Such people do not necessarily stop skating altogether, however; the ice dancing duo Torvill and Dean started Nationals and World Championship level skating in the early 1970s, won gold in 1984 at the Olympics, and they still came back (after the "amateurs only" rule was changed to allow "professionals" in the Olympics) for the 1994 Olympics, and in fact did not officially retire from physically skating in general until 1999 (they still do choreography work for other skaters). That's over two decades of skating! Jayne Torvill was 37 when they won Bronze in 1994. Again - Bronze does NOT = "losing", it just means they didn't take first or second place (this is especially true in this case because they were downgraded from a higher score because one of their lifts during the free skate was deemed to be breaking the more restrictive ice dancing rules on lifts). Runa27 04:51, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ladies vs women

Since there has been some back and forth on this issue....

"Ladies" is the official and correct terminology of the International Skating Union. You can verify this in the ISU Regulations [2]. Yes, it's anachronistic.... but it's the correct technical usage in this context. Dr.frog 16:11, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] figure skating

hello, my name is elizabeth, and i came to talk about figure skating.

Hi elizabeth, this is a discussion about the article "Figure skating" and not a forum for figure skating itself. Use a skating forum if you want to discuss skating. --Pelladon 04:44, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vocal music in ice dancing only?

According to the ice dancing page, ice dancing is the "only" form of figure skating to allow performances in "competition" tp non-instrumental pieces with lyrics. This sounds just plain flat-out WRONG, because I've seen plenty of "competitions" where people have performed with lyrical music! For example, I explicitly recall a woman doing a short program to Shakira's "Eyes Like Yours" in a competition.

Can anybody clear this up for me? And if you wouldn't mind, please let me know on my Talk page that you've left a note, in case I miss your reply. ^_^

This is important to me for two reasons: 1. An answer either way means at least one of these two pages (figure skating or ice dancing) needs editing, because if it's true that all other forms of ISU-sanctioned competitive figure skating do NOT allow music with lyrics, that should be reflected in the figure skating page, and if it's false, then that "fact" needs to be removed from the ice dancing page; and 2. I'm interested in taking up figure skating and/or ice dancing, and I'd want to skate to something with lyrics, for the most part. Thank you for any information you can provide on this factor! Runa27 05:06, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

  • As I noted on Talk:ice dancing, you are probably thinking of vocal music in professional "competitions", which have no set rules (as discussed here in the main figure skating article). Dr.frog 12:44, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
That still does not directly answer my question, so I'll rephrase: in ISU competition, for non-ice dancing forms of figure skating, do they allow vocal music with lyrics?.
I don't see how it would make sense for ice dancing to be the only form that uses music with lyrics, considering they aren't apparently supposed to skate to the melody or lyrics, but to the background rhythm or beat (Can I assume this essentially means the drums in a piece with drums in it, or the bass line in pieces without drums?), whereas other forms supposedly allow for dancing to the melody and (there was some other word that made it sound like "what the lyrics say"). : \ But thanks, anyway.
This STILL means that the ice dancing page needs editing, since in non-ISU (I'm assuming) competitions, it's allowed, but the ice dancing page just says "competition", which is too vague and really kind of misleading. Runa27 21:48, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
The page does not need editing. Events such as United States regionals and sectionals do not allow vocal music, and those are not ISU events, but USFSA events. If you are interested in skating and want to skate to music with lyrics, then that is allowed for a show program/exhibition. 66.191.117.215 19:39, 19 November 2006 (UTC)Mysterypaw

[edit] Two meters?

The figure skating blade is curved from front to back with a radius of about 2 meters. 2 meters? What 2 meters? I don't think anything is two meters on a figure skate. I don't know what this sentence is trying to say. --Fang Aili talk 15:16, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

  • Look at the skate blade sideways. The blade isn't flat on the bottom, it's slightly curved. This is called the "rocker". E.g., here is the kind of blade I have, as listed on the manufacturer's web site: MK Professional. Here's a high-level freestyle blade from another manufacturer: Pattern 99. The parabolic blades have a varying radius of curvature. Dr.frog 16:38, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
    • Ok, I think I get it. So this sentence means that if the curve of the skate blade was continued in a circle, then that circle would have a radius of 2 meters? --Fang Aili talk 16:49, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WP Version 1.0 inclusion?

FYI, I've listed this article at Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team, in the hopes of its inclusion in version 1.0. I'm not quite sure how that whole process will work, but I hope this article will be improved and included in that release. --Fang Aili talk 17:15, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Code of Points

Would anyone object to moving the Code of Points information to its own article? That section is long and it's not necessary to go into that much detail on the general figure skating page. (Right now it's redlinked as Code of Points of Figure Skating at Code of Points disambig.) --Fang Aili talk 17:19, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I've been thinking this would be a good idea for some time, but have been too lazy to do the rewrite myself. There are also scattered references to the CoP in a few other articles that should be wikilinked to the new article, when it is created. Dr.frog 01:01, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
The Code of Points of Figure Skating should redirect to the ISU Judging System. As familiar as the term is, it has not been officially named nor referred to as the Code of Points by the ISU. I also have concern with the neutrality of the last few sentences of the current entry under figure skating.--MuskMelon 11:43, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Done. It could use some editing. --Fang Aili talk 16:28, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thoughts on article improvement

Copied from Wikipedia:Requests_for_feedback#Figure_skating Requests for Feedback:

How can this article be improved? --Fang Aili talk 16:35, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

  • It's quite comprehensive and mostly well-written but it could do with some inline references (having only 2 reference sources from the same organization in an article of this length isn't good). The image placement is strange - initially it is good, but then there a number of "personality" pictures in the Disciplines section (which would fit better in the History section) and then there are no further pictures at all. The sections on the moves would particularly benefit from some visuals. Some more specific comments (roughly in the order they occur inthe article):
    • "The toe picks are used primarily in jumping and should not be used for stroking or spins." - says who? Is that a rule?
For stroking, using your toe pick to propel yourself, generally referred to as "Toe-Pushing", will result in deducted marks for this in MITF tests. - So I guess it's a rule. (I found this cite [3] - but I'm hoping to find a better.) For spins - if your toe pick touches the ice - it will slow the spin - but it's not a rule. -Gary van der Merwe 18:46, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
    • "Ice dancers' blades" - the term ice dancing hasn't been introduced yet, and as it is major part of figure skating more than just a link to the main article would be appropriate. It may be an idea to move the disciplines section before the equipment section. Equipment section was moved below Discipline section. --Fang Aili talk 19:01, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Clothing focuses almost exclusively on women's clothes. Added bit about men's clothes, reorganized paragraph for flow.--Fang Aili talk 19:01, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
    • 'In spite of the lack of obvious "tricks"' - this doesn't help the general reader, it needs explaining or removing. Section reworded, hopefully it's clear now. --Fang Aili talk 19:01, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
    • 5. Waltz jump - this needs rewording to bring it in line with the other descriptions. Fixed, though this section could use some general editing. --Fang Aili talk 19:01, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Spins - I'm not sure this needs splitting off to a separate article, it rather unbalances this article without being so obviously too long to require separating out. The other sections on the moves are good and clearly explained and it is a shame that the spins are dealt with so abruptly.
    • "The lowest scoring individual (based on the sum of the weighted placements) was declared the winner." - is that true? Would I be aiming to get the lowest score in order to win? Wouldn't all 6.0 scores be better than all 0.0s? I changed the wording to hopefully make it easier to understand, though the section could use some fleshing out. --Fang Aili talk 19:01, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
    • The scoring system section is complicated, perhaps a couple of examples would help.
    • "a Soviet or Russian pairs duo" - sounds awkward, although I know what you are trying to say. Changed to "a Soviet or Russian pair".--Fang Aili talk 19:01, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Notable Skaters section: this doesn't really add anything. If you aren't going to discuss notable skaters I'd just put this under see also. Added this to See also. --Fang Aili talk 19:01, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Hope this helps. Yomanganitalk 22:47, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Some points struck by Fang Aili after being addressed. --Fang Aili talk 18:24, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image for Jumps

  • I love Matt Savoie, but I find that triple salchow picture distracting and confusing (even as a long time skater and participant). It could be improved if the stills weren't time-lapsed and were taken at each half-revolution of the jump, rather than him facing random directions.MuskMelon 00:56, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
  • I agree, having all those pictures clutters up the article. Creating or finding an animated.gif is the way to go. Check out Alexander Ovechkin for an example of what an animated .gif file is. Frankly, I wonder why that type of file isn't used more often to demonstrate moves, plays, technique, etc. in other sport pages. Perakhantu 08:40, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
  • In addition, the image in question is fair use. We should try replace it with a free image. I'm looking for a replacement. Maybe Image:Axel_Paulsen_jump_without_text.png? I'm hoping to find a photo. --Gary van der Merwe (Talk) 10:20, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reference style

When citing, I like to use the Wikipedia:Template_messages/Sources_of_articles/Generic_citations, but I know that some people don't like it (as mentioned in the above page.) I do feel strongly that it should be consistent in the page. Would the other editors like to use the Templates or not? -Gary van der Merwe 17:55, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

The templates are fine with me; they organize the information well. I do think that we could remove the line breaks, so that they don't take up so much space in the edit window. And can't the unused fields be deleted as well? --Fang Aili talk 18:53, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Yes and Yes - Gary van der Merwe 19:07, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
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