Talk:Ferenc Puskás

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.
Portal:Biography
 Biography Portal
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale. [FAQ]
(If you rated the article, please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)
This article is supported by the Sports and games work group.
WikiProject on Football The article on Ferenc Puskás is supported by the WikiProject on Football, which is an attempt to improve the quality and coverage of football related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page; if you have any questions about the project or the article ratings below, please consult the FAQ.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.
High This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.
WikiProject on Football in Australia The article on Ferenc Puskás is supported by the WikiProject on Football (soccer) in Australia, which is an attempt to improve the quality and coverage of football (soccer) in Australia related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page; if you have any questions about the project or the article ratings below, please consult the FAQ.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.
WikiProject Football (soccer) in Australia To-do:
Other languages WikiProject Echo has identified Ferenc Puskás as a foreign language featured article. You may be able to improve this article with information from the German language Wikipedia.
Ferenc Puskás was supported by the football article improvement drive, a weekly collaboration to improve football (soccer)-related articles to featured article status.

Contents

[edit] Death

he died --66.65.56.199 17:36, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Noooooooooooooo!!!!! :( Rest in peace Puskás öcsi, may you be the all-time top scorer on Heaven's team. K. Lastochka 02:22, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


"In his club career, he apparently totalled 511 goals, a number believed to be third all-time behind Pelé and Josef Bican." Given that Romario scored over 900 goals, this seems unlikely. Maybe someone could do an edit. It is also unlikley that he is the fourth all time scorer.

Friendereich got more than Pelé, fifth and counting.
Franz "Bimbo" Binder scored 1006 goals in his career. That one includes league, friendlies and national team goals.

[edit] Picture

This one is just temporary. Who are the person on Puskas' picture? Obviously it's not him, so shouldn't it be of him?

[edit] Why he left Hungary

Can someone give some details? I have been reading a book "Everton in Europe", in its chapter of the match between Everton and the Greek side Pukas coached, it mentioned that he was away with his club in "free" Europe while Hungarian uprising was crushed by the USSR troops. Can someone with a better source confirm this and add this information to the page? I think it's an important move to Pukas career, without which he would not have been playing a partnership with Di Stefano.


Your source was right, he and several other players of "The Golden Team" remained abroad (mostly in Austria and Italy) after the invasion of the Red Army, but being threatened with an incredible two-year FIFA ban that forbade clubs even to let the "fugitives" train with them, most of them chose to return. Those few who refused to return had to wait until '59 to be signed. --Biziclop 16:05, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Total Amount of Goals in Career

Someone know? Is up 1.000? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.29.18.41 (talk • contribs) 19:00, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I've found these figures (but I'll verify them in his official biography)
358 goals scored from 349 Hungarian domestic appearances
324 goals scored from 372 Spanish domestic appearances
84 goals scored from 85 Hungarian international matches
This totals to 766 goals (from 806 matches) not counting cups and friendly tours with various all-star teams. Hence the estimation of 1000 career goals and considering that this incorporates two years of almost total "silence", even if the real number is less than 1000, ha is in fact one of the most prolific goalscorers of all times.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Biziclop (talk • contribs) 16:05, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
Is it right?
He must have played more matches, let's take, for Real Madrid? 179 games in 11 years? That's sixteen games pr. year.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.48.197.104 (talk • contribs) 09:47, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
I don't know much about how this site works and what the protocol for suggesting things is, but it seems to me there's some discrepancy in the total number of international goals scored. The article mentions 84 goals in 89 career international matches, then 84 goals in 85 matches for Hungary later on. However, the article also references Fifa's official site and obit as references for the article, yet those same articls put his goal total at 83 goals in 84 caps for Hungary. So who's right? What's the answer? And how do you choose whether to edit or not?
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.65.210.83 (talk • contribs) 21:24, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Atending to official book of real madrid puskas statistics
  • domestic league 154 goals in 179 games
  • domestic cup 46 goals in 41 games
  • european champions cup 34 goals in 39 games
  • intercontinental cup 2 goals in 2 games
    • Total official goals with real madrid side 236 in 261 games
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.175.226.152 (talk • contribs) 20:13, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

This is similar to problems that we have with many retired footballers that played in non-western-european leagues. It is also incredibly tough to determine the number of goals that Pele scored throughout his career, although it's quoted everywhere as 1,281, this number includes hundreds of non-competitive games. The rsssf.com prolific goalscorers article lists Puskas as having scored 701+. Other ideas could be gathered from looking at Talk:Pelé. aLii 10:23, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

It's interesting how much of the media is reporting such incorrect numbers. I've just read an article in the independent that says he scored 512 goals for madrid, which is obviously ridiculous - in nine seasons between the ages of 31 and 39 no-one can believe that he averaged 57 goals per season :P
Anyway I've found these stats that agree with above and rsssf.com:
1943/44 Kispesti AC........... 18 / 07
1944 ....Kispesti AC........... 14 / 07
1945 ....Kispesti AC........... 20 / 10
1945/46 Kispesti AC........... 33 / 35 [ 3 / 3 ]
1946/47 Kispesti AC........... 30 / 32 [ 5 / 6 ]
1947/48 Kispesti AC........... 32 / 50 [ 5 / 6 ]
1948/49 Kispesti AC........... 30 / 46 [ 5 / 7 ]
1949/50 Honved Budapest... 30 / 31 [ 4 / 7 ]
1950.... Honved Budapest... 15 / 25 [ 6 / 12]
1951.... Honved Budapest... 21 / 21 [ 3 / 4 ]
1952.... Honved Budapest... 26 / 22 [ 9 / 9 ]
1953.... Honved Budapest... 26 / 27 [ 7 / 6 ]
1954.... Honved Budapest... 20 / 21 [12 / 8 ]
1955.... Honved Budapest... 26 / 18 [12 / 10]
1956.... Honved Budapest... 13 / 05 [ 9 / 3 ]
1956/57 suspended
1957/58 suspended
1958/59 Real Madrid.......... 24 / 21
1959/60 Real Madrid.......... 24 / 25
1960/61 Real Madrid.......... 28 / 27
1961/62 Real Madrid.......... 23 / 20 [ 4 / 0 ]
1962/63 Real Madrid.......... 30 / 26
1963/64 Real Madrid.......... 24 / 20
1964/65 Real Madrid.......... 18 / 11
1965/66 Real Madrid.......... 08 / 04
1966/67 Real Madrid.......... 00 / 00
Unfortunately the reference isn't great, but I think for raw numbers we now have three lots of Hungary=357 and Madrid=155, with the overall total league goals being 512. aLii 16:29, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Why don't we use the total goals he scored including cups rather than just the league goals, so it is easier to compare to other goalscoring greats including Pele and Josef Bican when asking about 1000+ goals scored. Kurt000 00:07, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
If you take a look at Wikipedia's Pele article it is very clear about how he scored his goals and so a comparison is easy to make. It's pretty standard to concentrate on league goals over and above cup goals, and I guess the reasoning is that players at successful teams have many more opportunities to play in cup games. aLii 17:03, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Yeah, looks like you are right, sorry about the misunderstanding. Thanks Kurt000 22:16, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pantheon

Absolute POV on the six greatest players of all time.

Disagree. Undoubtably he is alongside Pele, Maradona and Di Stefano as one of the world's greatest players. 82.69.40.37

[edit] Reference

I don't know anything about Puskas, and from what I understand he is a legend. However, this page has many comments such as 'the finist team of the era', 'the finest player' etc... I'm not disputing it, I think it would be good to have more reference. Azymuthca 19:17, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Just look at the results of that time. Hungary won against everyone. The only mistake, though, was in the 54 WC final where they lost after first taken the lead against West-Germany. Earlier in that WC, they won them by 8-3. I don't think Puskas needs any further explanation either. Look at his record for RM. And his i.eg. european cup wins aso...

My point is... whe don't need reference where he or RM is said to be "one of the finest...".


[edit] 3 Champions Cups

Puskas won 3 European Cups, and not just one! He played and won in the 1959 (but was injured for the final), played and won in the 1960, and played and won in the 1966 (he didn't play the final). after the 66' third cup he retired to become a coach.

http://www.goldenfoot.com/ochampions.cfm?id=16

Puskas only played in two European Cup finals - 1960 and 1962. He was injured for the 1959 final, as stated in article, and did not play in 1966. You can not credit him with finals he did not appear in as this is inaccurate. Puskas had a pretty successful career and it does not need embellishing Djln--Djln 21:38, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I tend to agree with the anonymous user. He did not play in these finals, but he was part of the Real Madrid squad that season. A cup isn't won only on the day of the final, but takes a lot of matches in a whole season. SportsAddicted | discuss 15:45, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
  • If you included every player who played for a winning team in previous round of a competition, individual honours lists could go on for ever and could be considered inaccurate. Cup competitions only give winners medals to players who played in final. Djln--Djln 21:27, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Then why is it that reserve players are also allowed to to step up when a cup is lifted? They also get their medals even if they didn't play and they can celebrate with those who did play in the final. Another thing, the article about Puskás in German is a featured article there and it says he won all three of those stated above by the anonymous user. I don't say we should copy it because the Germans do it, but as far as I know reserve players also get their medals. SportsAddicted | discuss 23:05, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
I've gotta say that I agree with Djln on this one. To have really "won" something you generally have to have played in the final. aLii 10:46, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
Why is it that all players on this picture have medals awarded then? Even those that are in a suit. SportsAddicted | discuss 00:02, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
In 1966, Puskás was still part of the team; therefore, he gets awarded for any success his team has had during his stay.
Puskas was part of the squad which won the European Cup in 1959, 1960 and 1966. He missed the 1959 and 1966 finals through injury but collected winners' medals after playing in earlier rounds.[1]--Crzycheetah 00:58, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Things to do for Improvement Drive

  • His career needs a lot more citations, only the first and last paragraphs of his playing career have any.
  • That quotes section needs to go. Perhaps shift to Wikiquote?
  • Trivia - Merge or get rid of
  • The hard part - a copyedit to give the article more flow, and cut down on the number of subheadings. Oldelpaso 22:24, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


Since I did revamp the quotes section, I think that the quotes section should move to Wikiquote, rather than be deleted because as a great footballer, many great things have been said about/by him so it would be useful to keep and move the links to Wikiquote. I am not to sure which parts of the article need citation, though if you could point me into the right direction, I am sure I will be able to help.Kurt000 18:29, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I have some suggestions too:
  • Move the quotes section to Wikiquote.
  • The 1954 World Cup and Honvéd world tour sections need citations.
  • Remove the sectionstub template from the later life section.
  • Spain national team subsection needs expanding or merging.--Crzycheetah 20:42, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../f/e/r/Talk%7EFerenc_Pusk%C3%A1s_2c8b.html"