Talk:Felix the Cat

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Felix the Cat is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do.

This article has been selected for Version 0.5 and the next release version of Wikipedia. This Socsci article has been rated FA-Class on the assessment scale.

Felix the Cat appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on November 16, 2004.

	This article is part of WikiProject Films, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to films and film characters on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
FA This article has been rated as FA-Class on the quality scale. High This article has been rated as High-Importance on the importance scale.
Editing Guidelines Please remember these guidelines when editing a film article: If a non-film article already exists with the name of the film that you are trying to create an article for, disambiguate and use (film) in the title: Film Title (film) For more information see: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (films) When writing an article about a particular film, the general format should be a concise lead section, followed by a plot overview, production details, a cast list, a reception section, and references. Create an Infobox that tells all pertinent information about the film. We are always looking for new members! Join us today!

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject American Animation, which aims to cover topics on Wikipedia related to animation in the United States. If you would like to join, you can edit the article attached to this talk page, visit our project page, or leave feedback.
FA	This article has been rated as FA-Class on the assessment scale.
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the importance scale.

	Cats Portal This article is supported by the Cats WikiProject. This project provides a central approach to Cat-related subjects on Wikipedia. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.
FA	This article has been rated as FA-Class on the Project's quality scale. (If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)

Contents 1 3/4 world claim 2 Felix has two daddies 2.1 Cartoon titles 2.2 "Character animation" 2.3 Commas 2.4 "The popularity persisted." 2.5 "Sullivan granted permission to Felix . . ." 2.6 "Steamboat Willie" 2.7 "Unfortunately, the studio . . . " 2.8 Vavoom 2.9 Jack Mercer 2.10 Sonic the Hedgehog 2.11 Television 3 Controversy 4 Video Capture Image 5 Twisted tales self-redirect? 6 Felix Images 7 The Original Adventures of Felix the Cat 8 Creation dispute 9 Silent-era costars 10 Other Felix images 11 Animation historians 12 Song lyrics 13 Papier Mache or Wood? 14 Public domain 15 Banned Episode? 16 321 Explosive Ordnance Disposal Squadron 17 Inline citations 18 First Cartoon? 19 Felix: The Kit Cat Klock 20 Catchphrase

[edit] 3/4 world claim

Earlier versions of this article included the claim

At the height of Felix's fame in 1925, an estimated three-quarters of the world's population could recognize him

It would be nice if this could be verified.

It is hard to credit, but it is possible that a neutral, non-talking, cartoon character would be reproduced and distributed world wide. Cinema was available in China and India in the 1920s, but was it only in the cities or were there travelling cinema that could have taken Felix to the majority of the rural population? -- Solipsist 07:51, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Well, I was the one who wrote that, and it was based on something from one of my animation books. Unfortunately, I'm in Africa at the moment and have no access to said resources. I will say that I can believe it -- I'm in Cameroon, and every little kid here knows the images of Bugs Bunny and Bart Simpson, though if you ask who these characters are, most can't tell you. BrianSmithson 11:33, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I know this is old, but I thought I'd chip in anyway. Animator Payut Ngaokrachang saw Felix cartoons when he was growing up in 1930s Thailand (then Siam), so the influence of Felix and his ability to reach audiences in many parts of the world seems to be documented.Wisekwai 19:47, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Felix has two daddies

Well, it seems that this article has two primary authors and a host of smaller contributors. user:Lucky 6.9 has nominated this page for Featured Article status, which I think it deserves. This has, however, prompted both Lucky and myself to make many more edits, often of a stylistic nature, and sometimes with apparently different ideas about what's "right" or "good". So, rather than getting into an editing war, I offer a summary of the edits I just made, and a few justifications.

[edit] Cartoon titles

In my articles, I've been putting them in quotes rather than italics for a while now. My justification is that these were part of the string of stuff that would show before the movie itself, and thus, they are parts rather than wholes of something. It's the same logic for why titles of short stories are in quotes; they're usually part of a bigger publication. It'd be nice if someone could track down an actual style-book reference about what style short films are supposed to be in, though.

I've also wikified titles of individual cartoons. Wikipedia writers do write articles about such things, so I feel it's best to set up the links now.

[edit] "Character animation"

Disney teaches this to its artists, and it's a common term in animation studies and histories. It's a particular kind of animation that merits its own article, in my opinion. Thus, I'd like to leave this wikified in the event I or someone else ever gets around to it.

[edit] Commas

Yeah, there were too many. But a few that were deleted are necessary -- such as before the relative pronoun "which" and before "and" when there's a change of subject.

[edit] "The popularity persisted."

I re-added the phrase. My thinking is that all the other "mascot" stuff is 1920s-related, then we switch to the 1940s. I'm not married to this phrasing, but it seems more logical to me.

[edit] "Sullivan granted permission to Felix . . ."

Took this out. In my opinion, it's understood that Sullivan granted permission since we establish that Felix (the man) is his friend.

[edit] "Steamboat Willie"

I changed this back to "an instant sensation." It was. And Sullivan's distributors wanted talkie Felix shorts to cash in on this, not because "Steamboat Willie" had made cinematic history.

[edit] "Unfortunately, the studio . . . "

More NPOV without the "unfortunately" part. Unfortunately. :P

[edit] Vavoom

Seems redundant to say his voice is earth-shattering and then explain that it breaks rocks. One or the other should go; I changed it to what I think sounds better. Others may disagree.

[edit] Jack Mercer

Seems superfluous to say he's the voice of Popeye; in my Looney Tunes articles, for example, I don't say "famous as the voice of Barney Rubble" when I talk about Mel Blanc.

[edit] Sonic the Hedgehog

SEGA's very popular videogame mascot, Sonic the Hedgehog, is evidently based on Felix.

---

This is probably not truth. Sonic the Hedgehog was made in Japan. There Felix the Cat is almost unknown. Sonic is a blue Supersonic Hedgehog. The drawing style is really different. The only common point between Felix and Sonic are that they are antrophomorphic talking animals...

• I certainly see a bit of Felix in Sonic. There's nothing on the Sonic the Hedgehog article, but according to the Sega Megadrive FAQ:[1] --Tysto 03:45, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

They decided to make a new Character by holding an internal design competition at Sega Japan. There were 100 competition entries out of which 4 finalists were chosen. The 4 designs were a wolf, a bulldog, a fat man (who was developed into Dr. Robotnic) and a blue hedgehog created by artist Maoto Oshima. He came up with the character by crossing Felix the cat with Mickey Mouse and the developing the character further. The Sonic game was finally released in July 1991 and was a staggering success.

I'd prefer a print source to an online FAQ, frankly. But at least this is something. If the statement gets reinserted, be sure to include the reference as well. — BrianSmithson 12:36, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Television

The first television image ever broadcast was Felix's.

The entry for John Logie Baird has it that a static image of Felix was broadcast in London in 1924, not the US credit given in the article. --scruss 10:55, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

• The John Logie Baird article states that the first ever transmitted image was of a dummy's head, not Felix. I'm guessing (without checking) that the article has been changed since Aug 2005, but I can't ever remember any reference to Felix in connection with Logie Baird.

As I recall, a rotating statue (or model) of Felix was used by either NBC or CBS in early TV experiments because the lights were so hot.

Right. It was NBC/RCA and a Felix doll. See http://framemaster.tripod.com/Electronictv.html . --Jeremy Butler 12:42, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

---

That's it, I think. I'm very flexible about many of these; comment if you disagree with my logic. I think the article's in great shape, and I'd be very happy if we got this thing on the front page someday. And please don't take any of this as personal attacks or edit warmongering. Remember that everything reads more "angry" in plain text. And I'm a pretty happy guy right now. :) BrianSmithson 09:45, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

No, no...looking really, really good. If it helps get the featured status nod, so much the better. Thank you SO much for the references. Mine came mostly from memory and the Net. - Lucky 6.9 18:42, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Controversy

Rather than the bald statement about Messmer, shouldn't there be some mention of the claims that Sullivan created Felix? I believe the jury is still out on this. Grant65 (Talk) 13:53, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)

I agree with Grant65, although certainly contentious, the question of who created Felix appears to me somewhat biased. As the ABC-TV article points out, it may be a case of the States commonly "taking" something and claiming it as its own; it may be a slight case of Tall Poppy Syndrome, an affliction often labeled upon Australians. Personally, I agree with the assertion it's the key-drawings that would give someone title to the claim.

Excerpts from the ABC-TV Felix transcript:

CHRISTOPHER ZINN: Animation historian Vane Lindsay believes the key-drawings are central to the dispute.

VANE LINDSAY: Felix is Sullivan's creation. Similarly with Walt Disney. Walt Disney created Mickey Mouse, but he didn't draw the cartoons, nor did he draw the comic strips. But they carried his signature.

JOHN CANEMAKER: It's true, Walt Disney did not draw Mickey Mouse, and in fact, he didn't design Mickey Mouse, but there is no doubt that Walt Disney was the creative thrust behind the success of that character. He oversaw the creation of those films and how the animators worked. He was on top of every one of those films in a way that Otto Messmer was, but Pat Sullivan was not.

and

JUDY NELSON: I did write away to the Library of Congress wanting to find out the earliest films they had records of. And the copyright office sent me this record here. The film is called 'The Tail of Thomas Kat', 1917. It was half a reel of film, and they actually give a date - 3 March 1917 was when it was registered for copyright in Pat Sullivan's name.

CHRISTOPHER ZINN: Importantly, the Library of Congress document confirms Sullivan's ownership of the film. It premiered many of the cat's trademark characteristics like his removable tail, which would become a feature of Felix three years later.

This evidence seems to me quite clear and is merely a matter of what constitutes creator/owner status.

Can someone verify the Library of Congress documents and 1917 copyright?

--Hax0rw4ng 10:49, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I think the main page summary of this article is seriously biased in a way that illustrates exactly what can go wrong in Wikipedia. Pat Sullivan's creation of Felix was never disputed during his lifetime and although Messmer was an animator in the studio he only claimed to have created Felix 34 years after Sullivan's death when there were no other studio employees still alive to contradict him. This article within the first paragraphs treats his unproven claim as true and slights Sullivan despite evidence which supports Sullivan (see above the 1917 "The Tail of Thomas Kat" and other comments re key drawings). It should be remembered that Sullivan was himself a cartoonist, not merely an entrepreneur. This controversy is, as it should be, discussed in the article and the evidence weighed but it is surely completely unacceptable for the article to endorse one position so emphatically in the first few paragraphs, especially when the claim for Messmer seems to be driven by an overwhelming element of american chauvinism - the same questions could easily be raised regarding the origins of any group or corporate creative endeavour.

--ian.milliss 21:56, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Pat Sullivan opened his studio in 1915. March 1917 - Pat registers copyright "The Tail of Thomas Kat". Otto Messmer began working for Sullivan in 1917. Otto shortly after joined the army - and retunred in 1919. Feline Follies was created based on "Thomas the Kat" in 1919 by Sullivan's studio. (He was called Master Tom in that cartoon.) This was followed by Musical Mews in the same year. The Adventures of Felix was the cat's third cartoon, also 1919, where he finally got his name, coined by John King of Paramount Pictures. In 1922, Bill Nolan and Otto Messmer redesigned Felix to a more rounder cat. 1933 Pat Sullivan died 1936 the Van Bueren Studio bought rights to the character 1950's - Joe Oriolo works as an assistant to Otto Messmer 1954 Joe Oriolo takes over Felix comic strip from Otto Messmer 1960 Felix was revived once more, this time on TV, by producer Joe Oriolo (famous for Casper)

The creator of the original cat character that started it all was definately Pat Sullivan. The adapter and key animator was Otto Messmer. The Felix most of us know was adapted and animated by Joe Oriolo.

- Stuart.

Unfortunately, many animation historians disagree with you. It's important to reflect both sides of this debate in the article, which, in my opinion, the article currently does. — BrianSmithson 16:22, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Video Capture Image

This image, right at the top right, has been removed twice now without comment. Is there a reason for this or is it the v word? Hu 16:48, 2004 Nov 16 (UTC)

DrachenFyre has removed the image twice now. Still no explanation.

Good temp image, BesigedB. Thanks for giving some clue about what is happening in your edit summary, though it is still somewhat of a mystery to me because at no point did I see or do I see anything other than the beautiful image of Felix playing the guitar with the bird on the head of it.

Indeed - I assume that some people cannot see that image - does something else come up instead? -- ALoan (Talk) 17:39, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Other Felix image had been vandalized with the goatse.cx image earlier today. This may be fallout from the "fix". --Dante Alighieri | Talk 21:58, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)

Oh - I'd not heard of Goatse.cx before (and I can see why people would be rather shocked). -- ALoan (Talk) 11:54, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Twisted tales self-redirect?

Twisted Tales of Felix the Cat links back to the same page. Remove redirect and allow Twisted Tales to be a separate page? Chris Wood 13:15, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Made it into a not-so-stubby stub. Noel (talk) 13:19, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Felix Images

I decided to contribute a bit to the Wikipedia Felix page. I've added three new images from classic Messmer Felix shorts and some historical information under the "Sound to Silent" section that needed to be fixed. I also pepped up the titles of each section. I hope you don't mind.

- Pietro Shakarian GoldenAgeCartoons.com

Nice contributions - thanks. You will probably find several other articles on early cartoons that could use some help as well. I've also shuffled the pictures around a bit. I think it is a good idea if the lead image gives a good view of Felix himself; the title screen with Pat Sulivan's name on it seems best associated with the creation dispute section; and it seems quite nice to keep the technicolor frame even if this isn't typical of Felix's appearances. The main downside is that the images don't appear chronologically, but as several of the images are from 1922/23 that's difficult to achieve anyway. -- Solipsist 14:40, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

I've added a few more new Felix images and put them in a new order (you'll notice I included the famous Felix pace). Tell me what you think. - Pietro

That looks fine to me, although the new images need source, attribution and copyright information. I would imagine they should mostly be tagged {{film-screenshot}}. -- Solipsist 08:15, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

No need to fear - I made the images myself from my own copies of the cartoons. All of the shorts are in the public domain except for "Sure-Locked Homes" which I'll add a copyright tag to shortly.

-Pietro

Even better - and now they are tagged that is excellent. -- Solipsist 06:44, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Original Adventures of Felix the Cat

I just removed this line: "In 1991, Felix appeared in his second television series, called The Original Adventures of Felix the Cat." I can't find any reference to this on IMDB, but I didn't search too thoroughly. Is this a real series? If so, it should go back into the article. BrianSmithson 01:27, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

In all my time of researching, I have never heard of such a series. It was never mentioned in the Canemaker book nor was it even mentioned in Jeff Lenburg's Encyclopedia of Animated Cartoons. Pietro Shakarian 19:59, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

The same anonymous contributor has added the information back in on numerous occasions, but I suspect its just malicious vandalism. All we can do is keep the article on our watchlists and revert when necessary. --BrianSmithson 23:09, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Creation dispute

Please voice your views on the "Creation" section as it stands now. - Pietro Shakarian 14:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

What was wrong with this version? —BrianSmithson 15:16, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant to link this version. —BrianSmithson 15:27, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Alright, I think I've finally cleaned up the controversial material in the "Creation" section. "Thomas Kat" is brought up in the second paragraph because many are still not sure that "Kat" was the first Felix cartoon. Whether Sullivan or Messmer created Felix, I'm sure everybody can agree that "Feline Follies" was the short that really launched the series. For the record, I know for a fact that there were no other cartoons made between "Kat" and "Follies" that involved any other potential Felix precursors. - Pietro Shakarian 17:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I know nothing about who originally created the character, but from a general style perspective it seems best to start the section with a discussion of the first defining film (apparently "Feline Follies" of 1919). Then move on to a discussion of the competing sides of the controversy with comment on any of the earlier contenders, such as "The Tail of Thomas Kat", as part of that discussion. The current version seems to do this well and partially cites sources for the stated opinions (although I'm not too convinced that an ABC-TV documentary is a particularly reliable source - is there not a better one?). -- Solipsist 17:52, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

John Canemaker's book and recent research uncovered by animation historian David Gerstein (who I co-maintain the Classic Felix page with on GoldenAgeCartoons.com) are both very reliable sources. They both point to Messmer as the cat's creator. Other notable American animation historians such as Jerry Beck, Michael Barrier, Mark Kausler, Milt Gray, Donald Crafton, Cole Johnson, and even Jeff Lenburg draw the same conclusion. Despite this, there is (and probably will be) dispute on the character's creation. - Pietro Shakarian 18:02, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

For the record, Charles Solomon supports Messmer as well. Not sure about Maltin. As for the current revision, it looks pretty good. I would remove the line about Sullivan's estate suing people, though. The line seems to imply that Sullivan and his heirs tried to cover up Felix's true creator. That may be true, but implying as much is POV. —BrianSmithson 18:17, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Done. Also, I just checked Of Mice and Magic and Maltin supports Messmer's claim too. - Pietro Shakarian 18:23, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I have four main objections to the present wording of the "Creation" section. First of all, a full-rounded cartoon character is a character, i.e. the product (in part) of writing in addition to drawing. Therefore it is not necessarily the product of one animator; it may instead be primarily the product of one or more scriptwriters (witness the decline of Asterix after Goscinny died). And while we're on the subject, who were Felix's scriptwriters? Alternately, a cartoon character may be considered to have been the product of an auteur like Disney (who, as Canemaker admits, did not do much drawing either). Or it may be a collective effort. A viewpoint on Felix by someone from an animation perspective will tend to be overly biased against Sullivan. Second, none of us knows what Thomas Kat looked like. Therefore any speculation on Messmer's contribution to his appearance is just that, i.e. speculation on his appearance. It seems bizarre to associate Messmer with the "familiar black body" and say "he found solid shapes easier to animate" and then add as an afterthought: "The fur color of the earlier Thomas Kat has not been definitively established." Third, the transcript of the ABC-TV documentary,[2] (which was linked in the article until some kind soul removed it), uses interviews to present a balanced argument. It draws attention to the facts that no one challenged Sullivan's ownership until 34 years (count 'em) after his death and the fact that Canemaker (et al) have overlooked Thomas Kat. It does not "state outright that "Thomas Kat" was an even earlier Felix prototype". Fourth, was Sullivan's estate actually people in Australia? I don't know, and I haven't been able to find out one way or another, which is why I deleted that statement. Grant65 | Talk 00:01, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

The stories of the Felix shorts were not scripted, nor were they storyboarded. Rather, they were drawn out by the animators. That is, the animators would come up with the situations as they animated the short. This is how most animation studios in the 1920s worked. When the phrases "familiar black body" and "he found solid shapes easier to animate" come up in the text, they aren't referring to "Thomas Kat", rather they are referring to Master Tom of "Feline Follies". Perhaps it would make more sense to move the subsequent line about "Thomas Kat" from the fourth paragraph to the second? The Sullivan estate was indeed in Australia. I replaced "stated outright" with "suggested" in reference to the ABC documentary and I restored the ABC link. I appreciate you specifically sounding off your concerns with my edits and I'm always open to new ideas on how the Wiki Felix article could be improved. I do hope we can work something out. Thanks! - Pietro Shakarian 01:20, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Hey, Grant. I do appreciate your contributions to the Felix Creation section, but I feel the wording of the last paragraph is just fine. Also, there is no connection between Krazy and Felix (save for the Winkler Krazy shorts which began in 1925 under former Sullivan staffer, Bill Nolan). Whoever created Felix, whether it be Sullivan or Messmer, I'm almost positive that they would have not inspired by Krazy. The personality and mannerisms of both characters are very different. It is a nice thought, but there really isn't much fact behind it. -- Pietro Shakarian 23:07, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Silent-era costars

Is there anywhere we could re-insert a mention of Inky and Winky, Kitty, and Skiddoo? —BrianSmithson 20:03, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I think we could mention them in the "Unprecedented popularity" section (maybe to start off the fifth paragraph), stating that since Felix was so successful, the Sullivan crew decided to introduce more characters into the series, etc. - Pietro Shakarian 20:21, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Other Felix images

[Moved from middle of page]

---

Please discuss the changes you wish to make to the Felix the Cat page on the talk page. If you continue to revert without explanation, I will consider it vandalism, which could lead to a block. Consider this a warning. —BrianSmithson 00:45, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

"Vandalism is any addition, deletion, or change to content made in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of the encyclopedia. The most common type of vandalism is the replacement of existing text with obscenities, page blanking, or the insertion of other wholly irrelevant content. Any good-faith effort to improve the encyclopedia, even if misguided or ill-considered, is not vandalism."

Adding a picture is NOT vandalism. Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.6.35.54 (talk • contribs) 08:50, 9 December 2005.

On the contrary, when that picture is unverified, unsourced, and lacks copyright information, it can most certainly be considered such. I repeat: Please discuss this. Why do you prefer this picture? Where did you get it? —BrianSmithson 12:41, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Let me add: Your behavior earlier marked you as a vandal: You were repeatedly changing the page to an image of questionable copyright and ignoring requests that you discuss first. However, the fact that you have posted here leads me to believe that your changes are being made in good faith and are not intended to "compromise the integrity of the encyclopedia". Still, I urge you to discuss this. Two editors have disagreed with your addition of the poster. Convince us it should be there. —BrianSmithson 12:49, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't see any problem with adding the 1928 Felix poster, as well as keeping the other "early title screen" near the bottom of the article. The only thing I'd have a problem with is the addition of two images of the same 1928 poster, which I've seen is one of the two arrangements this article's been reverted between. I see a display of the 1928 poster as fair use, and as a better heading image than the "Felix pace" image. There's of course a limit to how many images should be on a page--this page shouldn't become a gallery for Felix-related images, but I'd think most or all of the images here now are appropriate to the content. ~GMH talk to me 19:33, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Animation historians

We need to cite all those animation historians in the References section if we're going to say that they support Messmer in the creation dispute. Likewise, the Sullivan quote should be cited. — BrianSmithson 23:18, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Song lyrics

Simply quoting a few lines from the song falls easily into fair use, so I reverted the recent cut. — BrianSmithson 13:02, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

• The use of more than a few words of song lyrics has well-established licensing procedures to avoid litigation.[3] Felix the Cat is famous enough that I guarantee the owners renewed the song rights, and the rights are obviously actively managed.[4] This does not really fall under fair use. --Tysto 03:56, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
  • The first site you link to concerns lyrics sites, which print the entire song; we're only using the chorus. We should avoid copyright paranoia. See also Wikipedia:Lyrics and poetry, and featured articles on copyrighted songs: The Cantos, and A Hard Day's Night (both of which quote as much or more of a song). — BrianSmithson 12:44, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
    • On further reflection, though, the Felix theme song is quite short, so what constitutes fair use from it is no doubt shorter than what would constitute fair use for, say, "A Hard Day's Night". And, bottom line, removing the lyrics won't really hurt the article much. I won't revert if you or someone else wants to play this safe and cut the lyrics. — BrianSmithson 15:31, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
    • I've rethought my opinion as well, and I think I acted hastily based on my experience with Spongebob Squarepants (where the whole song was repeatedly added) and on my memory of The Verve's brutal treatment for sampling the Rolling Stones in "Bitter Sweet Symphony" as well as the well-publicized cases against lyrics sites and song pirates by the famously litigious music labels (and I don't think a label is involved here at all). But I agree that it wouldn't hurt the article much not to have the lyrics, especially since we can maintain the link to the audio version hosted by the official site. WP will get sued one day (over an image, probably), but I think it's likely to broaden fair use/fair dealing rules more than anything. --Tysto 16:46, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Papier Mache or Wood?

According to http://www.earlytelevision.org/felix.html , the Felix doll used for early television tests was made out of wood, not papier mache, as it states here. --Jeremy Butler 19:45, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Public domain

Is the character already in the public domain? --Error 01:22, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Banned Episode?

Why isn't anything mentioned about the banned episode of Felix floating around Youtube?

Who banned it? Do you have proof that it is banned? The fact, though, is that Felix cartoons are not regularly shown in theatres nor on television, so they're all out of distribution. The fact that some random user labeled one cartoon as "banned" and stuck it on Youtube doesn't seem all that relevant here. — BrianSmithson 12:58, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 321 Explosive Ordnance Disposal Squadron

I removed:

Felix has also been adopted as the official mascot for the British Army Bomb Disposal unit in Northern Ireland, 321 Explosive Ordnance Disposal Squadron. They adopted Felix as a mascot due to his 9 lives and ability to get out of scrapes with his bag of tricks - which was not unlike the early bomb disposal operators. The Squadron is the most highly decorated unit in the British Army despite being less than 100 strong. However, since 1969 there have been 20 operators killed by terrorist bombs in Northern Ireland and Felix has become an iconic figure throughout the Province. The original Felix cartoon has since been redrawn by the Squadron and the insignia it uses is now quite different, but it's heart and soul lies with the original upbeat, loveable cartoon cat.

This needs both a source citation and a serious copy edit to remove the extraneous, off-topic information. Pending these, I place it here. — BrianSmithson 22:43, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Inline citations

I'm going to go ahead and begin adding inline citations to this article to keep it up to the current standards of WP:FAC. I don't own all of the books listed in the References section, so help from others monitoring this article would be much appreciated. — BrianSmithson 01:11, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] First Cartoon?

I'm not sure when or where, but is it true that Felix the Cat was the first cartoon ever made?

Pece Kocovski 06:47, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

No, there were several cartoons that preceded any of Felix's outings. See, for example, Gertie the Dinosaur. — BrianSmithson 09:24, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Felix: The Kit Cat Klock

I believe this article should mention the famous Kit Cat Klock, which is apparently based off of Felix's character. I was going to make it a separate article, but I think it would be better as a section here instead as a stub on it's own. If anyone wants to write up about it, put on Image:Kit Cat Klock.jpg too, a picture of my clock which I made public domain. --Reaper X 04:08, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Catchphrase

Isn't Felix famous for a catchphrase... Zzzzap! Shouldn't that be mentioned in the article?

--158.234.250.71 16:35, 26 October 2006 (UTC)