Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Geisha

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[edit] Geisha

Women posing as geisha are a common sight, but depictions of authentic geisha are increasingly rare. Can you tell the difference? The current Wikipedia article on Geisha features a snapshot of two young girls in costume who are not geisha. In this candid photograph, a real geisha is shown in her natural work environment entertaining a businessman at a private gathering in Gion. Those who are familiar with this art form will recognize that her kimono, makeup, facial expression, and subtle body language are true to classic form and reflect an elegant style years in the making. Beyond the manufactured imagery of Hollywood, this is a rare glimpse of what a real geisha looks like when she is working in the evening -- when the simple act of lighting a cigar becomes art. For the sake of authenticity and out of respect for the original tradition, I nominate this photograph of a lovely geisha -- a true geisha -- at work in Kyoto, Japan.

This photograph appears near the bottom of the Wikipedia article entitled Geisha. Photograph by Todd Laracuenta, taken with geisha's permission, 7 February 2003, Kyoto Gion, Japan.

• Nominate and support, because I think this is a striking picture, and we need to feature the real thing in our articles. - ToddLara 00:34, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
• Please look at previously featured pictures. This image is far too small to ever have a chance at becoming featured in its current satate.--Deglr6328 03:43, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
• Larger version resubmitted that is larger than the currently featured picture in the Geisha article, so I hope this size will suffice. Please, give it another look. Thanks for the help. ToddLara 06:34, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Yes, this new size is more than sufficient, for my purposes anyway. Raven4x4x 10:37, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Great. I appreciate the guidance. ToddLara 01:46, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose. Who's the dude? It would be better with just the geisha. I understand wanting to show her in a natural act, but he takes away from the art of the act itself. Sorry. --LV ^{(Dark Mark)} 21:50, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
  • While I appreciate the rarity of this picture (a geisha entertaining a male client), the picture still lacks clarity and sharpness. It is an interesting picture, don't get me wrong, but the quality of the picture is lacking. There are many quality things to be photographed, but they must be photographed with quality to make the cut. While the subject is of astounding quality, this photo is not, in my opinion. I am sorry. I still oppose. --LV ^{(Dark Mark)} 15:26, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose. I agree with User:Lord Voldemort about the man in the photo. Also the photo itself isn't all that spectacular. Enochlau 22:27, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the comments. "Who's the dude?" As the caption indicates, he's a geisha client. Very relevant. You might be surprised to know that geisha don't earn their living posing for tourists or holding umbrellas. They go out in the evening and entertain men at exclusive gatherings just like this photo shows. How do you propose telling the story of these banquets without showing a man in the photo? If you are insisting on a quaint, stereotypical picture postcard of a couple of airbrushed "geisha-girls" regardless of whether it tells the real story, that is an inappropriate measuring stick for an encyclopedia photo. Anyway, I respect your thoughts, and thanks very much for listening to mine. ToddLara 22:58, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
    • I understand "who the dude is". I just think perhaps a shot of just her and the lighting of the cigar would be better. The shot would have been good if it was closer and some random guy wasn't just hunched over in the pic. I don't want a postcard shot like the main pic on the article, but would like a shot of just her and her task, not some dude. Thanks for your quick response. --LV ^{(Dark Mark)} 15:59, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
• Weak Oppose -- I agree with User:Lord Voldemort about the dude in the picture; were it not for him, I would likely support. TomStar81 02:37, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Full Support for the third image. In my opinion, its the best shot. (Special thanks to User:Mdd4696 for bringing the cropped images to my attention). TomStar81 03:22, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
    • Have looked at both of the pictures for a longer period I think that they both look good, so I will Support Version 2 and 3. TomStar81 06:00, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment: the man is the entire point of the picture: to show geisha in their work. Without the man there the picture would be meaningless, or certainly less illustrative. Raven4x4x 02:46, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
• ( − ) Oppose Washed out, not particularly sharp and slightly noisy. --Fir0002 08:01, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Ok, considering how rare it is change to ( + ) Support third version --Fir0002 01:32, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

• • I think you need a better reason than that to oppose this picture. The technical quality is not the greatest (though it's still pretty good), but the fact that the photo is relatively rare trumps that. As previously stated, both subjects gave their permission, which is exceptionally difficult to obtain. The event depicted is an extremely valuable depiction of the article's subject material that goes beyond the physical appearance of a Geisha to her actual duties on the job. I urge you to rethink your vote. -Vontafeijos 01:56, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
• Question: You say the geisha has given permission to be photographed, but how about the "dude" - is he happy to have his image featured on the web in this context? --Janke | Talk 09:47, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
• Support. I like the contrast between the geisha and the man. --Bernard Helmstetter 16:10, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
  • I have a clear preference for the original version. --Bernard Helmstetter 20:31, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose The focus of the image should be the Geisha. I think the client's prescence is valuable in the picture, but his is overly prominent. ~MDD4696 (talk • contribs) 00:53, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

• Changing vote to Support the second version of the image (slightly cropped). ~MDD4696 (talk • contribs) 02:31, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

• Support. I think the focus of the image is the Geisha despite the presence of the man. I would even argue that the man enhances the quality of the image, contrasting the Geisha so she stands out even more. And as ToddLara said, it shows the Geisha "in action," so to speak. -Vontafeijos 02:19, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Updating my support to include the first and second ones only. -Vontafeijos 15:23, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: The geisha and the gentleman pictured above have consented -- which is pretty rare, considering this was a private engagement (rarely photographed). The geisha in this picture was featured in an American television documentary on A&E and the BBC. This is one of the very few (possibly only two) American men who have been accepted within the geisha district of Gion, which is very much closed to the outside world. I want to thank those of you, on both sides, who have taken the time to analyze this picture frankly while respecting the two subjects. As it happens, one of the top geisha experts in the U.S. requested permission to use this very picture in a nationwide exhibit because it was thought to aptly illustrate "ozashiki" (geisha banquets in which men are attended by geisha). Since the other two pictures in the Geisha article in Wikipedia are (1) a lovely picture of two non-geisha posing in costume and (2) a distorted screen shot of a possible real geisha on the street while on her way to work, I figured this picture would add significantly to the article. I look forward to more thoughtful comments -- support or oppose. If I get any more shots of geisha by themselves posing for tourist cameras, I will certainly post them as well. But, frankly, a geisha with a man is like a matador with a bull -- the bull doesn't have to be pretty and the bull doesn't have to be somebody. ToddLara 04:09, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
• Support. From reading the article, it seems that being a geisha is certainly about the interaction between the woman and (a) client(s). I would worry more about whether there is permission from the client? Janet13 04:21, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
  • I will support 1 or 2 (with slight preference for 1, I like the framing) but not 3, which I feel de-emphasizes the client-geisha relationship too much. Janet13 08:06, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: That is an extremely valid point about obtaining permission from the client. Generally, it is the client that opposes public disclosure. Geisha (and those who imitate them) are the most photographed women in Japan, but they are rarely ever pictured with a client for that reason. There is a code of silence, and the client's privacy is vigorously protected. In this case, permission was granted. It is a rare picture. Alternate versions uploaded for those who wanted more geisha and less client. If I eliminate the client altogether, the picture will make no sense.ToddLara 04:31, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
• Support first, oppose rest. Hamedog 01:28, 16 December 2005 (UTC) 01:07, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose Neutral - the shadows behind the geisha and the client bother me and distract from the photo. Flcelloguy (A note?) 16:49, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
• Support v1 or 2 because rare, striking, & a significant contribution to the encyclopedia. I prefer the composition of the original. ~ Veledan • Talk 22:35, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
• Support 3rd version 3rd version fixes issues that I'd have with the man being the entire scope of the photo. Jtkiefer^{T | C | @} ---- 05:25, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: The third version is awkward. Almost all of the man is cropped out except for his face and his hand. If we're going to have him in at all, he shouldn't be shoved into the far right side of the frame. As I said before, the Geisha is already much more prominent than the man in the photo (as she should be), so there is no reason to resort to such severe cropping. The second version should be sufficient for those who believe that the first shows too much of the man. -Vontafeijos 00:57, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
  • I would second that and also note the third detracts by hiding the relationship and distance between the Geisha's position and the client's. He could be leaning over much further in the 3rd version. ~ Veledan • Talk 17:52, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
• Support second. I agree that the first version is too much of the man, but the third version looks rather ridiculously cropped. Plus, I see no real problem having the man in the photo. - Cuivienen 01:27, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
• Support first or second. The third one is poorly cropped, but the other two are well-composed and informative. Camerafiend 19:40, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
• Support first or second only. I think the photo itself is rather average, but the significance of what is captured is what compels me to support it. Diliff | (Talk) (Contribs) 19:53, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
• Support first or second, significant contribution indeed. --Dschwen 10:52, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose - Overall image quality is lacking. What can I say, I'm just not wowed.--Deglr6328 07:29, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose, creepy. Neutrality^talk 03:04, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
• Support first or second Second preffereble. Nice pic. TestPilot 03:44, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Promoted Image: Geisha_Kyoto_Gion.jpg Raven4x4x 04:25, 24 December 2005 (UTC)