Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Prostitution in the People's Republic of China

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[edit] Prostitution in the People's Republic of China

Self nomination. I spent about three weeks writing this article from scratch. Quite a few issues were resolved through peer review. All referencing is now finished and I think the article covers the topic quite comprehensively. Yeu Ninje 23:56, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Comment. Just on first glance, I would recommend a lead picture. Perhaps the image wiht the blurred light labeled "Street prostitutes in the bar district of Sanlitun in Beijing." should be moved up to the top of the page. I will be able to take a better look at the article later. -Scm83x 00:03, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

• I've moved the image to the intro as you suggest. How does it look now? To me the image seems a bit awkwardly placed, maybe because it's landscape rather than portrait. Yeu Ninje 09:53, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

• It does look only a bit awkward. I just also noticed that the same thing I mentioned was in your peer review, so you should really consider finding a picture that is suitable, now that it's come up twice. -Scm83x 11:03, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

• Yes, it's just hard to find photos illustrating prostitution. Prostitutes don't take too kindly to being photographed, especially since the practice is illegal in China. But no matter, I'll have another search. Yeu Ninje 12:13, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Oppose. I have just gone through the article and fixed a lot of grammatical structures etc. that I didn't think sounded good. I think that you have done an excellent job and that this is now 80%-90% on the way to a FA. I have two reservations:

• The article mainly seems to be written from the perspective of law enforcement, and there is almost nothing exhibiting the prostitutes' points of view. I am sure that with 10 million prostitutes in the PRC there is a very good chance that some of them have written of their experience. Also what are the prevailing feelings of Chinese academics (especially feminists) on prostitution? How is prostitution depicted in popular media in China (I don't know the exact degree of control which the CCP has over their entertainment industry, but are there some notable depictions of prostitutes in Chinese film, TV, recent literature, etc. that have shaped public perception)?

*I don't understand the last part of the sentence "Following a 2000 police campaign, Chinese economist Yang Fan estimated that the Chinese GDP slumped by 1%, due to the lack of consumption on the part of female prostitutes." Does this mean "...due to a drop in the patronisation of female prostitutes"? I wasn't sure enough to change it. Andrew Levine 19:33, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

• • After the campaign, a large number of female prostitutes lost their livelihoods. Because of this, they consumed less and there was less demand for production, hence the slump in GDP. Yeu Ninje 20:28, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

With regard to some of Andrew Levine's concerns:

• The views of Chinese academics are mentioned throughout the article. For example, Pan Suiming is quoted a number of times. Other academics referred to include Zhang Ping, Shan Guangnai, Xin Ren etc., either within the article or in notes. The views of Chinese feminism are also covered with references to the All-China Women's Federation and women's groups in Hong Kong and Taiwan. The prevailing views among Chinese academics is mostly expounded in the "The question of legalisation" section.
• It is true that law enforcement takes a large part of the article, but that is just because most of the secondary literature focuses on these areas. No authoritative survey has been conducted of prostitute's attitudes or public perceptions of prostitution in China, so most literature on prostitution in China relies on sources given by Chinese law enforcement.
• To my knowledge, nothing notable has been published by a prostitute about her experiences. This is because of strict governmental controls, the general conservatism of Chinese society and the fact that many prostitutes are from lower socioeconomic backgrounds without much education. Still, there is some discussion of prostitution from the perspective of sellers of sex. For example, "The potential benefits of prostitution as an alternative form of employment include greater disposable income, access to upwardly mobile social circles and lifestyle options."
• With regard to popular media, I've expanded the "Prostitution in the media" section, citing the depictions of prostitution which have started to emerge in the arts. Yeu Ninje 21:51, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

• Support. My concerns have been adequately addressed by Yeu Ninje, who deserves praise for what I hope will be his second FA in a month. Andrew Levine 22:57, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
• Shanghai Surprise Support, VERY good article! I hope it makes the main page to piss off the Chinese Government:> --R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) 08:36, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Comment: While this article mentions failures and difficulties in policing, it would be interesting to note the collusion between the industry and the authorities. A discussion of actual punishments handed down for prostitution (for example this versus the minor detention and release of a foreigner) will be useful. Another resource is here. While this article is very comprehensive on the legal aspects, this also means the coverage is lopsided. I dont know if this link will help expand the types and venues section. More could be added on what kind of people solicit prostitutes, what kind of people become prostitutes, and on the actual act of prostitution itself. --Jiang 01:36, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

I just noticed that you referenced the LegCO candidate incident (note 39) as evidence that "the Chinese media has publicised numerous cases of government officials being convicted and disciplined for abusing their positions for prostitution". This is an inappropriate reference. He was a Democratic Party candidate (not a Communist Party official), and the criticism of the Central Government was that it was trying to discredit, through this arrest, a candidate hostile to the Central Government.--Jiang 01:40, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

I've replaced the incorrect source with another, and incorporated the LegCo candidate incident into the media section of the article. Yeu Ninje 04:05, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

I've added some more information on the acts that prostitutes commonly engage in. Some of the other elements you mentioned, like governmental corruption, actual punishments handed down, and profile of prostitutes are dealt with in the text. Governmental corruption in particular is dealt with at some length. The summary of Pan Suiming's Red Light District is very useful. If there's any additional information from that source which you think should be added, please go ahead and add it. Yeu Ninje 08:09, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Comment. You do realize this will never make it to the main page even if featured, right?--HereToHelp (talk) 16:54, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Why is that? Yeu Ninje 20:22, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Prostitution was the main-page featured article on May 3, 2004 according to Talk:Prostitution. So what's the big deal? Andrew Levine 23:56, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Note: it's not listed as a featured article on Featured_article 140.32.75.31 13:04, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

It's not listed there because it is a Former featured article. And yes, it was on the main page. Andrew Levine 17:40, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

The removal discussion can be found here, if you're curious. It looks like it would still need considerable work to become Featured again, but it has also improved a bit since its FA removal. If someone is desperate to get Prostitution featured again, I'd suggest starting by making Prostitution in Germany, Prostitution in Japan, Prostitution in Thailand, etc. as good as possible, so that the overall article has a solid foundation. Anville 18:09, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

• Support Good article. I would like to see a lead picture; however, none of the pictures in the article right now seem quite the one, and I recognize that finding illustrations for this topic is difficult. Anville 09:19, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

• Still searching for a lead picture. Question: is a lead question picture absolutely necessary for an article to become featured? Yeu Ninje 10:56, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I presume "lead question" is a malatypism for "lead picture". According to WP:WIAFA, "including images is not a prerequisite for a featured article." You've clearly surpassed that point already! ;) Supposing that it ever makes the Main Page, Raul654 would pick the best image of what's there, trim and scale it down, and use it with a (probably) compressed version of the lead section. Anville 15:26, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

• Support: One more voice in the chorus isn't needed, but this is a truly impressive body of work with exceptional research. Of course, one could wish for all sorts of things (the old Marxist allegation that prostitution is the primary metaphor of capitalism, with cannibalism coming in next (particularly Marxist fiction has employed these metaphors)) and that the re-emergence, therefore could be seen in that light, etc., but none of that would actually be important nor add a whit to this well done article. Geogre 19:21, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

• Support: Tons of references given the article is of medium length. Great discussion of legal and cultural issues. Incredibly informational, and very interesting subject material (yes I know that's not in the guidelines but I contend it does make a difference as to if anyone will actually read it). Contraversial subject, but reasonably NPOV language. Congrats to all involved, we have a winner :) - JustinWick 02:58, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

• Support article is well referenced and written. it's good to go--Jiang 04:48, 15 December 2005 (UTC)