Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Indian Standard Time 1

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[edit] Indian Standard Time

Worked on it over the weekend. It's a short article, and I've researched on the internet to gain as much information as possible on this subject. It's sufficiently referenced, has appropriately licenced images, and a nice SVG map. This marks my return to FAC after almost a year. I'm open to suggestions if I can get credible references. Regards, =Nichalp «Talk»= 18:54, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Comments:

• "In 1802, John Goldingham, nominated as the first official astronomer of the Company in India, established the longitude of Madras (13°5′24″N, 80°18′30″E) being 5 hours and 30 minutes ahead of Greenwich Mean Time as the Standard Time, the first instance of such use." First instance of such use in India, right? Or in the world?
• "He managed to stall proceedings in the Bombay Municipal Corporation for a few days by arguing that the government did not take the people into confidence." The exact connection between people's stance against Tilak's trial and convertion of Bombay Time to IST did not become clear. Was it just a case of using people's emotions to one cause to manipulate another cause?
• "However Calcutta time was officially maintained as a separate time zone until 1948." We have a reason why Bombay time was maintained. Was there any specific reason in case of Calcutta?
• "a error"->an error.
• "INSAT satellite-based standard time and frequency broadcast service which offers IST correct to ±10 microsecond and frequency calibration up to ±10−10." More wikilinks? frequency calibration, frequency broadcast service etc? Difficult to understand for non-technical people. Similar problems with frequency counters, phase recorders, mirror time servers. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 20:00, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments! Replying:

• It does not make a difference if it were to be India or the world as a difference of +5:30 wrt GMT would make it unique to India. I've copyedited it to read "first ever instance of such use in" to make it less ambigious
• Yes, he used public sentiment to garner support for his cause. I've edited it to make it clearer
• Calcutta time --> Nope, sadly my references do not mention why it was changed so late.
• "An error" --> corrected
• I've edited the relavent terms, though I don't think all are necessary for wikification. Please check.

Regards, =Nichalp «Talk»= 23:04, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

• Comment this sentence in history need to be firmed up though Calcutta and Bombay continued to maintain their own local time for the next couple of years. The second question from this same sentence is the use of City names in India, Mumbai and Kolkata are the preferred names for Bombay and Calcutta, from other Indian articles I thought the preferred names were to be used. Gnangarra 03:00, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

  Fixed now. =Nichalp «Talk»= 15:55, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

• Comment—any reason to include the trivia related to Linux? Seems irrelevant to me. Other than that, it looks good. --Spangineer^es (háblame) 03:03, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

  Removed trivia and image. =Nichalp «Talk»= 15:55, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

• Comments/Suggestions: A well-written article in a short span of time, commendable work by Nichalp. I have a few suggestions. Is it posisble to include details of Jantar Mantar as a means of keeping time in pre-British era? I found that the history section talk very vaguely about "mathematical models", and details of Jantar Mantar would be quite relevant. Secondly, I am a bit concerned with over-use of "although", "however", etc. In the last sentence of the lead, it is mentioned "...that lies between the two towns". Is Allahabad mentioned here as between Greenwich and Mirzapur. I find it quite odd to get mention, as its location is quite irrelevant and there is no direct route between the two cities so that the use of "between" can be qualified. There were a few more prose related issues, that I have myself fixed. — Ambuj Saxena (talk) 18:45, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

  Thanks for the suggestions. I've fixed the text and added a sentence on Jantar Mantar. =Nichalp «Talk»= 18:44, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

• Object Its difficult for me to judge this article properly, but it appears incomprehensive. A "References and futher reading" section is necessary - there needs to be a clear set of books prescribed for reference and more information. The "History" section is not good - it is important, IMO to have some information on how the Maurya Empire, Gupta Empire, Mughal Empire and other larger political entitites of ancient and medieval India callibrate and maintain time standards. I'd like to see more data on how IST was callibrated, test and how it is maintained. For example, what are the scientific details, economic impact of the proposal to split IST into 3 zones? The "Problems" section is good, but I'd like to see more scientific information than just political and historical stuff. Perhaps there is also information on the implementation of IST - how do far-flung areas, isolated areas keep time properly? What is the economic relevance/impact of IST? I don't know how copious are the sources on this subject, so forgive me if my requests appear unreasonable. I think you can find a lot more data at the Asiatic library, Bombay University or Prince of Wales. Rama's arrow 15:12, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

  Thanks for the comments. Replying:

  1. I would like to keep it as close to the history of the current time zone as possible, that's why I started right away with the +5:30 timezone origins. I'll try and add some more information if I get the sources on ancient India. I've added Jantar Mantar for now.
  2. IST callibrated and maintained... – I'm not sure what you mean by this as IST is callibrated using atomic clocks for which the article on it should suffice.
  3. "Far flung areas keep the time – I've added information on the time being broadcast by AIR and Doordarshan.
  4. You're right there aren't too many published sources (just a handful on Google books mention it) on this subject so getting such info is difficult.
  5. Could you elaborate on what you want to see in the economic bit topic?

=Nichalp «Talk»= 19:26, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

(1) I feel its necessary to explain for national empires - how did ancient/medieval people deal with this widespread geographic difference? (2) I believe you should explain how standard times/IST works with respect to India's geography and climate - an account of how Indian/British scientists callibrated this time zone is necessary (as much as possible), and readers should be available to understand the purpose and process of deriving standard times from this article itself, with particular note to India's needs. What was done before atomic clocks and how are these clocks maintained? Its not much as such, I reckon 1-2 paras. And the "Problems" section will go nicely at the end of such a section. (3) The far-flung areas, the northeastern region, the disputed areas of Kashmir etc. - do people observe time as per their own traditions? As the article speaks of people asking for a separate timezone for Assam, what are the economic effects of the IST if 8 am is different for Assam from M.P.? How does it affect people's lives, economic routine? administration? (4) Fresh point I consider it necessary that the article examine the alternative proposals for 3 time zones, what happens for India's maritime territory, Andaman and Nicobar Islands, Lakshadweep and IST as compared to the alternate Nepal Standard Time, Pakistan Standard Time and Bangladesh Standard Time, as they are closely linked to India's geography. I know its hard to find some books on this, but I do want to push you a bit more to make sure this article is comprehensive. What I'm asking for is a bit Indo-centric scientific information, as well as some data on how daily life in India is affected by having IST. Rama's arrow 19:54, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support. I was initially concerned with the lack of coverage of historical aspects of IST (as pointed by Rama's Arrow). For that, I have myself added whatever I found relevant. There is a fine line between what would be considered revlevant for IST article, and what would go to article about time-keeping in India, as this article should talk about the standard only. Hence, even some info added by me might be found irrelevant by other editors, and get deleted. For these reasons, I have specifically not added info about the details of Hindu calender beyond a certain point. Weighing the other concerns raised, I find that this article deals with them sufficiently in the scope set for it. — Ambuj Saxena (talk) 17:09, 18 August 2006 (UTC)