Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Hopkins School(Archive1)

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[edit] Hopkins School

Self Nomination, Support I've worked for a long time on this article, along with Harro (founder of WikiProjects Schools) to get this article into tip-top shape. It has interested, copyright info'd images, encyclopedic information, and has already become a Wikiproject Schools FA. Here's the first attempt at FA status, though the article was incomplete (issues fixed) Staxringold 21:50, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

• Great effort to clean up this article, and I'll be happy to feature it at the Schools Portal if it becomes a WP:FA. Support, although I'll be interested to hear what Carnildo has to say about the copyrighted images (thought I'd just come out and mention that...full disclosure!). Harro5 22:03, September 9, 2005 (UTC)

• Just a note, I have been given express permission to use those images. I can expand the fair use justifications, but please don't vote against because you think I'm using copyrighted material without permission. Staxringold 22:19, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

• Object
  1. In all three images, you state that "As a Yearbook Editor I, Staxringold (James Ringold), have been given permission to use Development Office materials such as this". What is this permission? Is it permission to use in the yearbook (in which case use on Wikipedia is a copyvio), permission to use on Wikipedia (an unacceptable license), or permission to release under the GFDL (acceptable)?
  2. Image:HopkinsSchoolHeathCommons1.jpg and Image:Hopkins Old Dining Hall.jpg are rather high-resolution to be claiming "fair use" on.
  3. Image:HopkinsMascotGoat1.gif states that "the promo photo tag basically applies". Is this image officially part of the school press kit or equivalent?

  --Carnildo 23:32, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

• Sorry if it was unclear. No, not just in the yearbook, I've been given express permission to use these photos. I'll update the copyright info a little bit. Staxringold 01:06, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

• Object There's a loooong way to go. A quick look at the opening reveals numerous problems.
  • The itty-bitty paragraphing destroys the flow.
  • 'North America' and then 'the country' later in the same sentence doesn't work.
  • What do you mean by 'somewhat' divided schools?
  • The quote-mark fairy has been splashing around in the second mini-paragraph.
  • 'Comprised of' is better as 'consisting of' or 'comprising'.
  • 'The Hopkins' motto' is ungrammatical, and if it really is 'the breeding up of hopeful youths', it's great fodder for stand-up comedians.
  • '... only qualified students are accepted and are then placed where they should be based on ability'—back to the drawing board for that clause.

If the parents fork out US$24,000 a year in fees, they should hope that the school's junior English students are taught to write better than this. Sorry. Tony 15:55, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Serious object. I believe this article could be a wonderful FA, but as it is now it is missing major sections and information. For example, the school has existed since 1660, yet the article has no history of the school at all. I would imagine the history section of the article would be rather large. Also, I'm sure the school has produced more noted alumni than the few mentioned here. As it is now, the article reads like an informational brochure promoting the school.--Alabamaboy 18:10, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Tony: To start off, please don't be offensive without cause. Also:

• If I don't paragraph, people complain about long blocks of text without organization. I went this way.
• Changed 'the country' to 'the United States'
• All three schools go to the same Hopkins, and all three go to all school assemblies. However, generally Junior schoolers have classes with Junior schoolers, Middle schoolers with Middle schoolers, and Upper schoolers with Upper schoolers.
• Removed single quotes for various schools, as those are their names
• Changed Comprised of to Consisting of
• It is "for the breeding up of hopeful youths," and I fixed the sentence to not be so wordy
• Reworked the admittance sentence

Alabamaboy: The school was a one-room schoolhouse until 1926, there isn't exactly a lot of history worth mentioning before that. As for noted alumni, I left the list as it was in the old stub article, as many of our 'famous' alums aren't really that major. Also, what sections seem particularly POV? Staxringold 01:12, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

• • • • If the school was a one-room schoolhouse until 1926, then the article should have stated that. Now that you've added in the history section, the article looks much better. I do wonder, though, what your references are for the history in the history section. Please list them.--Alabamaboy 02:23, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Oppose. While my reason for opposition is not addressed literally in the featured article criteria, I nevertheless feel that the content of this article is not suitable for a featured article. Featured articles are, accoring to the criteria "the best what wikipedia has to offer". Information about any regional educational institution in any country is relevant to only a minute fraction of wikipedia visitors. As featured articles function as a "showcase" and are used for wikipedia promotion, I don't think articles with such a limited value to the vast majority of wikipedia users should be featured. Esthurin 02:05, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Sorry to give offence, Stax; it was a bit naughty of me. Although my final statement was a slight exaggeration, I stand by it in principle. I'd remove mention of the school motto, frankly; the school should reword it, because the sexual overtones are inescapable in modern English.

The problem is that the whole article needs serious rewriting. Can you find someone to go through it? What about one of the English staff at the school who's good at editing—surely they have an interest in it? Tony 01:31, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

The motto is what the motto is. I understand that breeding is a sexual statement, but so is 'ejaculate,' but they don't edit old Hardy Boys that say "Oh Boy," Chet ejaculated (or something of that sort). The text is what the text is. As for an actual editor editing the article... This really isn't on their radar. If you want to dig through for smaller notes, I'll be happy to give 'er a good ol' fashioned American hack n' slash job, but I don't know what needs reworking/wording/writing or needs to be added/removed entirely. Staxringold 01:46, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm not interested enough in the topic to work on it; as I said, try the teaching staff at the school. Tony 02:48, 11 September 2005 (UTC)