Talk:Facade

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[edit] It is a façade

façade is only 1/3 as common as facade using http://www.google.co.uk with an English flag set:

  • about 2,220,000 English pages for facade
  • about 739,000 English pages for façade

So I think the wording at the begining should be changed to facade (sometimes façade). Any objections to this change and if so why? --Philip Baird Shearer 18:11, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps, but Google ratings are hammered because very few people have ç on their keyboard... —Mulad (talk) 16:05, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)
In addition to Google (which might be misleading for the reasons stated), we should take into account print sources, and you almost never see "facade" there. --Daniel C. Boyer 14:41, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

My Chambers English dictionary simply says façade or facade. It does not put any particular weight on either, so I suggest this article do the same. Notinasnaid 08:35, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The reason behind there being so many fewer pages for façade compared to facade is that on most English/American keyboards there is no "ç" key, nor do many browsers support hotkeys such as ctrl+comma+c to type them in, so i don't think the Google search holds much merit. On a related topic, why is the pronunciation guide written the way it is instead of using the Phonetic Alphabet? Archtemplar 19:55, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Neither is "correct", common usage on the net is facade, as this is an online encyclopaedia there is no harm in using the common version on the net. We can play games of authorative sources eg:
  • 32,600 English pages from bbc.co.uk for facade -façade
  • 986 English pages from bbc.co.uk for -facade façade
  • 17,500 English pages from guardian.co.uk for facade -façade
  • 388 English pages from guardian.co.uk for -facade façade
2 for the other side of the pond:
  • 160,000 English pages from nytimes.com for facade -façade
  • 229 English pages from nytimes.com for -facade façade
  • 982 English pages from washingtonpost.com for facade -façade
  • 77 English pages from washingtonpost.com for -facade façade
but is it worth it? --Philip Baird Shearer 08:34, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Sure, this is an online encyclopedia, but that doesn't mean it can be less accurate than anything else. In fact, in light of the controversy leveled at it, i think it probably needs to be more so. Still, i don't necessary disagree with you. I would push to make it written both ways with no emphasis on which is "correct". Archtemplar 19:19, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone dispute that the reason for the abundance of "facade" is the difficulty of typing funny letters on Anglo keyboards? If that's the case, the mere abundance is an extremely poor reason for preferring the crippled form. Not many readers are going to see façade and think, "Oh, I was looking for facade but I guess this is something else." Besides, using the cedilla means never having to say "c is hard before back vowels in all English words except facade." —Tamfang 01:44, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes I do dispute it, Please read the above (at least one dictionary disputes it). As words become anglicized they loose their accent marks. One never writes "Hôtel" in English, but there was a time when one would have done so. Common usage should be the guide and as shown above it is common usage not only on internet blog sites but also in reliable and reputable sources --Philip Baird Shearer 12:59, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Where? What dictionary disputes it? One dictionary is cited as listing both spellings (for unspecified reasons) and preferring façade. —Tamfang 16:17, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
OED, according to Wikipedia (see below). Take this discussion to cedilla; it is pointless having it here, I think. Notinasnaid 17:16, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Surely if the contributors to Wikipedia decide they know better than a dictionary, that counts as the dreaded and forbidden "original research"... Notinasnaid 13:05, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
From a personal point of view, I'd expect to see "facade" and "façade" i.e. the second form italicised to indicate it is a foreign word. Where an English word is available, I'd expect to see it used. But that would just be my opinion. More research reveals that Wikipedia has an article on the cedilla and its use in English. This article seems to follow that one; if the article cedilla#Use of the cedilla with the letter C is wrong, that is the place to correct first. Notinasnaid 13:22, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
There did not seem to be any consensus for a move. (In my view the cedilla article implies no move should be done, but it's still open to debate, of course.) Anyway, today there was a messy manual swap of contents, which breaks the edit history, so I reverted. An actual swap, preserving the edit history, would require administrator intervention, I think. Notinasnaid 19:22, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I just edited the Cedilla article based on my access to the OED. As of now, the online OED has an entry for "façade" and none at "facade." Further, the "façade" entry does not indicate any alternate spellings. The OED seems to be strongly in favor of the cedilla-ful spelling. I agree, and think this article should be moved. LWizard @ 03:29, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] gable

This seems an odd redirect from gable? Notinasnaid 18:57, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] STUB

stubstubstubstub

Thanks for your input, anonymous. Next time, simply add the stub tag by using ((stub)) (but with curled brackets rather than parentheses) Archtemplar 19:55, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2nd meaning?

Should we add a note about the 2nd menaing of facade?[1]: "An artificial or deceptive front"--75.7.135.250 22:22, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Of you mean putting a new front on an older building (eg a Georgian frontage on Tudor building [2]) then yes that should be here. --Philip Baird Shearer 23:35, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Movies?

Not sure if the facade reference to movies here is relevant... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.228.220.225 (talk • contribs) 19:57, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] False front

I just created false front to redirect here. I feel like it is a more common word for describing the big square facades you see in the old west, as in this picture, as opposed to "facade". Thoughts? —Ben FrantzDale 14:49, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WTF??!!

Move this to Façade for God's sake, just because our keyboards are retarded doesn't mean we have to be. Facade implies a very wrong pronunciation. My Webster's dictionary favo(u)rs façade over facade as well.Cameron Nedland 21:13, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

How do you prounce Worcester and Southwark? --Philip Baird Shearer 16:18, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

/'wɔɹ.stɚ/ & /'sʌð.ɚk/. BTW facade implies a rhyme with arcade.Cameron Nedland 01:05, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

It may to you, but not to me any more than Moscow ends in the word cow, or Warwick starts with the word war, or that Wagner starts with a W. It is one of the more interesting features of English that these things are not consistent even within every day usage by different people or even the same person depending on context of the usage. --Philip Baird Shearer 07:12, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, true. It just seems unnecessary to change ç to c. I don't know.Cameron Nedland 14:20, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
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