Talk:Exorcism
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it should be noted that none of the deaths due to exorcism's listed were performed by Catholic priests. Suppafly 01:11, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I removed a couple links because they pointed only to pages of items for sale on ebay, they did not point to a source document of any sort.
JesseG 02:25, Jan 14, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Lacks a skeptical viewpoint
This article seems incomplete as it lacks a clear explanation and relies heavily on obscure citations and futile digressions; overall it lacks a critical skeptical analysis.
[edit] Jewish Exorcisms
I find the section on Jewish exorcisms odd... it mentions "Gehenna (a Hebrew term very loosely translated as "hell", literally the valley outside Jeruselem where the city's garbage and dead bodies were burned. The word later came to mean "the valley of dead")" This seems strange to me, for, IIRC, Judaism forbids cremation. Can anyone shed any more light on this? aubrey 19:26, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Link Removed
http://www.trosch.org/chu/exorcism.htm Exorcisms in the Catholic Church
I removed this from the list of external links after perusing trosch.org and discovering it is not an authoritative resource for "rites" of exorcism, as the entry seemed to suggest. It appears that trosch.org is intended as a soapbox for its webmaster's personal interpretation of Catholic doctrine -- in fact, it contains such radical (even from the most conservative Catholic perspective) articles as an outright condemnation of Florida for executing a man who "protected innocent children" by killing an abortion doctor. This hardly seems like an appropriate resource for those who wish to learn Catholic doctrine, dogma, or liturgy, and therefore it seemed inappropriate for an encyclopedia to include it as an external reference.
Molinero 03:37, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
-edited my own word choice Molinero
I checked out your concern...'Gehenna' is a word tracing to Greek, ultimately from Hebrew גי(א)-הינום Gêhinnôm (also Gei ben-Hinnom (Hebrew: גיא בן הינום) meaning the Valley of Hinnom, first mentioned in Joshua 15:8. Originally it referred to a garbage dump in a deep narrow valley right outside the walls of Jerusalem (in modern-day Israel) where fires were kept burning to consume the refuse and keep down the stench. It is also the location where bodies of executed criminals, or individuals denied a proper burial, would be dumped. Today, "Gehenna" is often used as a synonym for Hell. This should explain more about the burning bodies. If you read it you will find that they burned criminals or people that were not properly buryed.
[edit] Section Removed
I have removed the following part of this article due to it's obvious biased point of view - this is an encyclopedia, not a religious reference book ;)
I have maintained the removed portion below to allow other users to edit it in such a way as to remove all POV issues or to allow an editor with a dissenting opinion a chance to return the piece to this article.
--Jim Binford 19:14, 30 July 2005 (UTC)Jimbinford ---
This article will try to demarcate between exorcism (or the knowledge of it) and spirituality.
First, it is very important to define and illustrate how exorcism is carried out in the Muslim world.
The techniques used in different parts of the Muslim world differ. Although there do exist specific 'ilm' or knowledge that is acquired for the purpose of exorcism, many exorcists are in fact wholly unaware of that 'ilm'. They are in contact with some extraordinary beings that, through the agency of the exorcists, extract the evil spirits from ailing patients. It is not known what those beings are. What is sure is that people who are in contact with such beings believe themselves to have achieved the 'Way to God'. This is the point of contention.
This erroneous belief is triggered by the seemingly tremendous power the exorcists feels to have just by being associated with those beings. In fact, once the contact is established, the exorcist can tell everything about anybody, near or far, living or dead. Not only that, the exorcist can even tell what the person sitting next to him is thinking. He can even influence the behaviour and thinking of the individual. For example, once a young boy of 15 escaped from his house to make money far away. The exorcist despatched his 'contacts' to incite fear in the boy's mind such that he found it impossible to remain far away from home any further. By inciting strong feelings in the individual, it is possible to manipulate their behaviour. Such powers are acquired rather quickly by the exorcist, usually within 1 to 3 years. Ordinary people are easily impressed by such a show of power and authority, not excluding the exorcist himself. However, the 'Way to God' is a wholly different affair. This is called mysticism and although mystics have the power to extract evil spirits by a mere glance, they do not make use of their power but very rarely. This is because their purpose is God-realization and not to make of themselves superhumans or centres of attraction and authority among ordinary mortals.
Shouldn't there be a section discussing Skeptical views of Exorcism?
!!! THIS IS A LEXICA NOT SOME PSEUDO-RELIGIOUS SPELLBOOK CRAP! I DEMAND THAT THERE BE CREATED SOME SCEPTICAL VIEWS AT THE TOP: YOUNGSTERS CANNOT CLEARLY SEE THAT THERE EXIST NO SUCH THINGS AS DEMONS OR SPIRITS!
[edit] Relevance?
I question this subject under Exorcism-related deaths:
"A five-year-old girl in 1997 in the Bronx, New York, died after being administered ammonia, vinegar, and olive oil, and then gagged and bound with duct tape."
How is this exorcism-related? Unless someone can find additional information that show that this death had to do with an exorcism, I believe this should be removed. --Marco Passarani 08:56, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
How is this exorcism-related? Unless someone can find additional information that show that this death had to do with an exorcism, I believe this should be removed. --Marco Passarani 08:56, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
[edit] "Modern-day" Roman Catholic View of Exorcisms
I changed (and reverted) the Roman Catholic section to note that the Rite of Exorcism was renewed in January of 2000, as the previous versions impressed that the practice of exorcism is outdated in the Church. Quite the contrary - though advances in the sciences have aided in the differentiation between demonic possession and mental illness, as Roman Catholics are aware, it indeed remains a recognized and accepted practice of the Church. For a better flow in the article, I also moved the historical information regarding the position of exorcist.
Also, the Second Vatican Council should be capitalized; it is a title, such as the Council of Trent.
17:17, 26 August 2005
[edit] Multiple Personality Disorder
Is it possible that many cases which are believed to be demonic possesions are actually cases of Multiple Personality Disorder? After all, those with MPD may act like animals that growl or jump between a kind personality and an abusive one, or they may learn something such as an old language like Latin in one language and not know how to speak it in the other language. Pehaps what we have believed to be a spiritual possesion is actually two personalties in one person.
they may learn something such as an old language like Latin in one language and not know how to speak it in the other language - My brain hurts trying to figure out what you mean by that. As for your hypothesis, I believe it is addressed by the mention of mental illness being mistaken for demonic possession in the article yEvb0 02:19, 15 September 2005 (UTC)yEvb0
I'm sorry I wasn't specific (and I didn't sign my comment), but I meant to say people who have MPD can learn extremely difficult skills to master in one personality and not know how to perform it in a different personality. For example, in one of their personalities, the person knows how to speak Latin, but in the other personality, they do not know what Latin is, since the personalities do not share a common memory, and the person doesn't remember "blacking out" and changing personalities. Also, some personalities can be antisocial while others are charismatic, and sometimes the personalities take the form of an animal. This may be why certain exorcism cases have documented that a person is posseses unlearned language knowledge, because their normal personality does not remember learning it, or why the person makes growling noises, because the personality is one of an animal. A good example of this is in the novel "Fight Club", where one personality is a nihilist that knows how to make bombs out of household objects while the other personality is a quiet, depressed white collar worker. While this is not a true example of MPD, it is an incident that occurs in patients that have been diagnosed with multiple personality disorder. --67.184.163.248 02:29, 20 September 2005 (UTC)Ikiroid
I'm familiar with Dissociative Identity Disorder (as it is currently called). I think you said "language" in your comment when you said "personality" (i.e. "learned Latin in one personality (not language)" or "one personality learned Latin"). Sorry for the confusion. In any case, it's probably best not to speculate too much about hypothetical incidents of exorcism possibly resulting from DID, but it might be fair if you wanted to mention DID (or schizophrenia, or others) as an example of a mental illness that could contribute to the perceptioin of a demonic possession. yEvb0 16:49, 23 September 2005 (UTC)yEvb0
[edit] Removed copyrighted content
Text copied from http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7078.asp was removed and cleared from the edit history. - Evil saltine 19:57, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Exorcism of places
The article on ghost links to here, but this article appears to concern itself solely with exorcisms of people. Aren't places (e.g. haunted houses) exorcised as well? --Shantavira 16:52, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
- Yes. The one Episcopal Church exorcism I know of was of a house. Mangoe 02:06, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] On the Nature of the Jinn
The Following paragraph in the section.. "On the nature of the Jinn", needs a citation from a reliable Islamic source:
A Jinn might also do it for revenge. Jinn are said to be quick to anger, especially when they believe themselves to have been harmed on purpose (since Jinn are usually invisible to humans, a person can accidentally injure a Jinni not knowing that one is there). --Haroon Nizar--
[edit] Holy Water?
The section on Protestantism has a reference to holy water. AFAIK, no major protestant denomination outside Anglicanism uses holy water of any sort. We might want to preface this accordingly.
[edit] Islam and exorcisms
The section on Islam and exorcisms is long and confusing, but I know nothing about the subject so am leaving it alone. Maybe a seperate page could be made, and just a paragraph summary left on this main page by someone in the know?Maeve 14:35, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
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- I removed the information that was copy-and-pasted on amulets, since it was POV, in violation of copyright, and added two pages but had very little to do with the article. I also re-divided the sections ~JMPowers
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[edit] recent conversion from Template: bibleref to Template: bibleverse
as a result of the recent template conversion, multiple verse listings no longer work, for example:
only returns Matthew 12:23
compare to:
- I believe i have corrected all of them, if there are any problems you can correct them yourself or connact me on my userpage. Jon513 14:37, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to see a page dealing with how to exorcise houses or places.
[edit] Christian Exorcism
This section is very annoying because of all the external links, Bible verses, etcetera. I know the Bible verses are necessary but could we at least have them in a references section or something?
The reference about Tanacu was wrong. Is prove now that the death of the nun was doctor's opera (a wrong cure - six time the maximum allowed dose of adrenalin). Also was no crucification, and the women was on she's bed, not... on the wall (?!?). The father is not charged with murder, but neglect, and this only to not charge the police and other stuff for abuse. They arested the priest without no evidences, and accuse him on media, who build the case. Now is clear that it was an abuse, but in Romania police never pay for abuse. So thy accuse the priest for other things, just to seems that is guilty for something, no matter what. But this is no exorcism, but coruption.
[edit] Amulets in Islam
I removed the section on removing Jinn by vising graves and wearing amulets. It is a controversial topic, not adopted by orthodox Islam and has no references attached
[edit] A cross reference is needed
Since the page mentions the movie of The Exorcist, the page of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Hughes
should be cross referenced in my view.
To my knowledge, all the cases of the angry ghosts or devils attacking the worldly human beings are the direct consequece of the inproper human's action incurred to them in the past.
In the case of Edward Hughes encountered in 1949, which I noticed is 4 years after the World War II and I'm 90% sure that the devil is the victim or collective angry consciousness related to the World War II if one closely watches the movie and pay attention to what is scarred on the boy's chest. Again, karma will never stop manifesting what has happened and will happen to the world. As long as human being has ego views on enemies, war will never end.
[edit] Skeptics section
Shouldn't there be a section that goes more in depth about what skeptics would say is behind possessions and exorcism?-August, 16 2006
No, there shouldn't be a section about what "skeptics say is behind possessions and exorcisms". This article should be neutrally written, without any arguments for either side. I like how this article is presently set up, with some cleaning up here and there, mainly in the Protestant section. This article should lay out what exorcism is, not what certain individuals' opinons on the subject are. How exorcism is viewed and performed by different religions is what this article should be about. Please keep the annoying arrogance of the so-called "skeptics" away.
Is it annoying and arrogant because you don't agree with it? No, it is not a neutrally written article, it gives arguments for one side and not another. This article should have a skeptics section. All it would do would be to report what certain skeptics have claimed is behind exorcism. It doesn't have to be a large section, just enough to give an idea of what skeptics would say. I think that makes for a more balanced, interesting article.-November 5, 2006
[edit] Exorcism in ordinary rites
The article needs to address the exorcism built into some baptismal rites. Mangoe 02:14, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] how can this stuff be real?
How can demonic possession be real?If it were the case,then wouldn't the so called "demon(s)" just kill off anyone who stood between it and it's victim?Or better yet,use the possessed person to do all sorts of things rather then let itself be strapped to a bed the whole time. I thought demons had powers.So how can it seem so easy to stop the "demon(s)" wheather it;s on the cases we read or in the movies we saw? This whole thing has probably been their since the whole concept of a supernatural world existed since humans learnt how to talk.
Let me assure you none of this is for real.Emily rose getting exorcised on Halloween.Yes quite dramatic.When she could have been taken to church or hospital and been exorcized during the daylight.And the demons seemed quite powerless to harm anyone beyond Emily rather than move a few glasses and bang a few doors. I think the whole idea of possession and exorcism is just dumb.
And isnt THE P-FILES on top of the page a copyright violation of The X-Files title?74.98.241.189 05:00, 25 November 2006 (UTC)Nadirali
