Talk:Eurovan (PSA/Fiat joint venture)

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I'm concerned about this. The naming of the article should be in line with previous discussions - to wit, it should not be a generic name but rather one specific model. It should also not be plural... Therefore, I suggest "Fiat Ulysse" since that name has remained constant, or "Sevel van" or "Sevel minivan" since that's acceptably specific. I'm especially against calling the article "Eurovan" or anything similar since there is an unrelated specific model called this (the VW). I suggest a disambiguation page at "Eurovan" pointing to this and that. I see no problem using the word Eurovan in the article however, and calling it out as an "aka" in the infobox... --SFoskett 21:26, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Steve, first of all thanks for adding the Systran link to the Chair HKDRT :D I hope you find this as much as I do - if you want more fun, to the Systran thing with the Japanese Toyota Camry :D

As concerns the naming of the article, it is "eurovans" rather than "Eurovan", it does create some confusion, but it's like Pontiac Astre and Opel Astra. I think it is a specific name, the eurovans are most often referred to like this, and I have never came across them being referred to as "Sevel minivans" (the "Sevel vans" referred to the LCVs in my experience), and individual vans are referred to as "an eurovan" only when the talk is of eurovans in general, and then one of them has to be mentioned, just like in the article.

As stated on every edit page on this site, "Content must ... be verifiable." The title on this article "Eurovan" is wrong. While it makes sense to combine articles on these cars into one article (since they have more in common than differences), there is no publicly-known collective name for them. I have owned these vehicles continuously since 1998, first in France, then Norway, now in the UK. I have never heard them referred to as Eurovans. Do a Google search. I just did, and 99 per cent of the references are to Volkswagen sites, the sole exception being a site called eurovan2.com. cornellier 19 July 2006

What you are really saying is that there is no collective name for them that YOU know.

Thanks for you speedy reply, Bravada. I don't take the above remark personally. I say quite clearly that Google shows that Eurovan is not a known collective name for these cars. (I'm using Google from the UK, maybe that shows different results from what you get, but this the en.wiki).

I have experienced them being referred to that way so many times that it was only natural for me to name the article on them that way. If there is no other common name for them, I guess we have no other choice but to go by that. Oh, I just realized - by "common" I mean "a name for all of them" not "a name used commonly". My English is rather poor, so if you can help find a better way to express that, I would be grateful.

But the name *isn't* used commonly; perhaps you could point me to what is considered a valid source, but I don't think Autobild is valid source for a question regarding English language terminology. If you want to call it Eurovan in de.wiki go for it.

You are right that the VW Eurovan is a more popular hit due to (still) American-slanteness of the WWW, and the fact that this is not (I admit) that popular name (after all, are Jag S-Type and Lincoln LS often referred to as "DEW98s" and are they referred to as a whole too often at all?) doesn't help here. So, the Eurovan redirects to the Transporter (there isn't actually even a disambig notice there, I forgot about that), but people looking for those particular vehicles get redirected here, and they can still go to the VW thanks to the disambig link.

As concerns the statements you have marked as needing references, I will try to rectify that, but I also encourage you to be bold and help improve this article yourself - it clearly needs it, as 99% of the content here was authored by one person :D Thanks in advance, Bravada, talk - 01:17, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the encouragement. Incidentally I'd add that the merging your started still needs a little work -- there is some redundancy with the other Sevel articles. cornellier 20 July 2006

OK, the bottom line is - people looking for the Eurovan will type in Eurovan and go straight to the VW article. Those looking for specific eurovans will type in their names and come to this article. On the rear occasions that people would like to find out what the term "Eurovan" or "eurovans" they came accross means, they will be directed to either article depending on whether they use singular or plural, and then the disambiguation notices will let them establish whether they are in the right place. Does that make sense? Bravada Talk to me! 15:22, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

PS. After some Google searches I have established that in the US and to some extent UK, "eurovans" denote all kinds of vans made in continental Europe (apart from being the plural of the American EuroVan), so perhaps a dismabiguation page for "Eurovans" listing all vans made in Europe that could fall under the category, the eurovans here in particular, and the EuroVan would do the trick? Do note that I see it as be used for "Eurovans" and not the "Eurovan" article. This article might then be renamed to "Eurovan (PSA/Fiat Auto)". How about that?

I think "Eurovan (PSA/Fiat Auto)" is entirely correct considering that people call these things "Eurovans" in Europe. But yes, over here I have read "Eurovan" as referring to the Ford Galaxy, Opel Sintra, VW Eurovan, and lots of other European-designed (read, too small for the US) vans. --SFoskett 14:12, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Um, except people don't call these things "Eurovans in Europe.

Hey, did you know about the Sevel Van article? --SFoskett 01:22, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Sure I did, its existence is what prompted me to write this one, I thought it was more or less clear :D The "Sevel vans" is usually how the commercial vans are referred to, I've never heard the eurovans being referred to as "Sevel vans". I believe we need one general "Sevel" article, and one article for each van series (initially I asked about that at the Wikiproject talk page, but now I came to this conclusion). Given that both "Experts" and "Scudos" can be called "Sevel vans", I have no idea how to call the other two articles. Perhaps, given that the amount of information might not be that large, we might have one "Sevel van" article for all commercials vans for the time being? Bravada Talk to me! 11:32, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

PS. I understand that this article is ok with you provided it is introduced under the name "Eurovan (PSA/Fiat)" and it will be OK to supersede all the individual articles with it. Now, do individual articles have to be simply wiped out clean and replaced with redirects or is there a more formal procedure?

The article looks good. Go ahead and copy this content to Eurovan (PSA/Fiat) and redirect the other names to it. Check for double redirs, and you're set. No formal process needed. Good work! --SFoskett 19:57, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Response to Cornellier

This page became a nightmare to edit now, so let me reply by starting a new section. I will deal with the major issue below, but as concerns realigning the Sevel articles, I have asked Steve about that sometime ago, but we didn't pursue that topic any further. As I see you are the main author of one of those articles, and perhaps know more of the Sevel operations and the commercial vans than I do, I believe you can expand and realign those articles better. Or would you prefer me to try to do it first?

[edit] Eurovans or not

First of all, let me express my belief that the English Wikipedia is not the "Wikipedia for people from countries where English is the official language", but "Wikipedia in English" - and, as English is the lingua franca of today, a general Wikipedia. As such, it adopts English as the language the articles are written in, but does not, and should not, adopt the POV of the British, Americans, Australians or whoever else.

As concerns Google search, I am using the standard version of Google (www.google.com, English interface) - try searching for "Eurovan PSA" to filter out the omnipresent Volkswagen. Out of the results I got that way, I have chosen AutoBild Lexikon because it seemed the most "formal" source. The name is used in many European countries and languages, therefore it didn't seem that important to me that this particular one isn't in English. As concerns "commonly used" - I know it is NOT commonly used, as the vehicles aren't often referred to as a group. But we need a name for the article, so if there is a name used at least sometimes, it's better than nothing. I wanted to avoid a naming disaster like the French article.

As concerns "Eurovan" as a generic name for a van from Europe, this is an out-of-Europe POV, but disambiguation notices are to help people of different backgrounds and accustomed to different naming help find what they are looking for. If an American user, who heard somebody speak of "Eurovans", comes to this article, he or she might find out that this is what was meant. I guess I could have put it better, but I hope you get what I mean.

Regards, Bravada, talk - 22:04, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Eurovan 1 engines

I know that the 806 was also sold in the last year of production fitted with the DW10ATED4 HDI engine. This is the 110bhp 2.0 16 valve common rail engine. This engine was basically the bottom of the DW10 engine fitted with the 16 valve head off of the 2.2 HDI from the 406. It didn't have ethe balancer shafts in the sump or the particulate filter like the 2.2 though. Regards dieselnutjob

Great! It would be great if you would go bold and insert that info into the article, perhaps even finding and citing some sources - given your extensive knowledge of the topic I believe this would not be a problem for you. Thanks! Bravada, talk - 23:53, 1 August 2006 (UTC)