Talk:European microstates

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I find it amusing that the intro says "no microstate is likely to ever join the EU", and then in the list of microstates, it includes a current EU member (Malta).

Is Luxembourg not a microstate?

Hmmm, it takes half an hour or so to drive across Luxembourg as I recall, whereas somewhere like Monaco you can walk all over. Luxembourg is big enough to appear as a patch rather than a dot on a reasonably-scaled map of Europe (a very unscientific way of thinking about it I know). I'd say Luxembourg is a good cut-off: if you're that size or bigger you're not a microstate. However, not all microstates are the same: Andorra is the biggest on the present list at about one fifth of the size of Luxembourg, and is very much bigger than the likes of Monaco and Vatican City. 86.136.90.241 06:07, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I've often wondered what the cut-off point should be myself. I think it's a little strange to classify Luxembourg as a 'proper' state while discounting Malta or Iceland. A few criteria I've considered would be a population below 100,000; sovereignty over their own defence (even Malta and Luxembourg have symbolic militaries, Iceland has disbanded its military, but is still a NATO member) -to the best of my knowledge Andorra, San Marino, the Holy See and Monaco all rely on France, Spain and Italy for their military defence); and a 'realistic' possibility of joining the EU or NATO if they desired (obviously this would limit the definition to European microstates). Any of these definitions would, even though fairly arbitrary, set a more common-sense definition of the term, as most people apply it. --Maverick XIII 08:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 EU and microstates 2 Kaliningrad, Kosovo 3 Sovereign Military Order of Malta and Mount Athos 4 Microstates in history 5 Republic of Malta 6 "Unique"

[edit] EU and microstates

"Because of these special economic policies, the microstates have not joined the European Union but have special agreements with it" How does not joining the EU help the microstates??

They are not subjected to most of the EU policies. Besides, their power in the EU would be minimal. For example, Monaco has no personal taxes. The Vatican is not democratic. Andorra operates with low tariffs. Tax havens,...

--Error 00:00, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Kaliningrad, Kosovo

Should Kaliningrad Oblast be included as Aland and Feroer? Is Kosovo micro-enough? --Error 4 July 2005 00:13 (UTC)

Kalingrad is not a microstate, it is an integral part of the largest country in wht world, it just happens to be detached from the rest of the country--Captdoc 21:38, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Kosovo is still considered to be part of Serbia even though they don't have any control over it these days. Furthermore it's about four times the size of Luxembourg. 86.136.90.241 06:07, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Sovereign Military Order of Malta and Mount Athos

The SMOM has claims to be the smallest state (but many would regard it as borderline).

Mount Athos is technically within the EU.

Jackiespeel 18:06, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Microstates in history

This area could be developed somewhat.

Given the discussion over on the Danzig/Gdansk page I am putting both names in, but in this context the former name is the correct one.

Jackiespeel 18:06, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Berwick-upon-Tweed was never independent, instead it frequently changed hands between soveriegn states. For this reason I have removed it.

Sorry, the above was me, I didn't know how to add my username--Captdoc 10:00, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I know about one more, Dubrovnik. Jancikotuc 20:57, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Republic of Malta

I noticed that the Republic of Malta (not the same entity as the Sovereign Military Order of Malta) is no longer listed on this page. Considering that it is indeed smaller than some of the other entities listed on this page, there is no good reason for it not to be included. Rhialto 11:58, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Malta is smaller than Andorra. Why is it not a microstate? Inkan1969 21:02, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I think the determining factor is more population than size. Malta's population -- 400,000 people or so -- is an order of magnitude greater than most of the microstates. It would fall into the larger category of "small states" that would also include Cyprus, Luxembourg, and Iceland (the latter not being small physically but having a relatively tiny population.) --Jfruh (talk) 22:23, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

But Malta's population density is lower than Monaco's. Monaco at least is heavily urbanized. Inkan1969 18:17, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Unique"

How can five things all be "unique survivors"? I suggest changing this to "the only survivors", "unusual survivors" or "rare survivors" as appropriate. - Trezatium 15:50, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

In fact the whole sentence ("These states are unique survivors of earlier times in European history") is quite meaningless. I suggest cutting it out. Trezatium 18:31, 24 April 2006 (UTC)