Talk:Ethiopian involvement in the Somali Civil War

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[edit] Merge

The following statement is too simplistic, even with the "present times" qualifier: "Ethiopian involvement in Somalia in present times began with the collapse of the central government in Somalia in 1991." The Somalia-Ethiopia tangle goes back well in to the Cold War--Haile Selassie's government was a US-client-state and the minute he was overthrown the US became a friend of the Somalis and the Soviets switched their horse at the same time. Fascinating coincidence! In fact the collapse of Somali central government was in direct reaction to the US misreading the Cold War endgame on the Horn of Africa. See also Osama bin Laden. Four tildes dcnr.skt@comcast.net

This page should be merged with Ethiopian involvement in Somalia. They are basicly the same article. – Zntrip 23:09, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, or possibly into the Somalia Civil War article. Further, the article is highly POV in that so far only the ICU has claimed to have had direct contact with Ethiopian troops. The BBC states, "If the Ethiopian involvement is confirmed, it would be the first time that Islamist and Ethiopian troops have come into direct contact." Thus, I think it may not only be premature, but POV to state that an "Ethopian war in Somalia" has begun. —Aiden 13:02, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Probably best to wait a few weeks to see how things develope. Should this be just another skirmish, it can safely be merged inn, if it becomes a full scale war the other article can focus on the events leading up to the war while this provides fuller coverage of the war itself. Fornadan (t) 01:32, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes please merge with Ethiopian involvement in Somalia or Somali Civil War. From what little I know this one is a new article, created as Ethiopian war in Somalia 22:00 8 December. Then it was linked from "Somali Civil War" on the Main Page. A few people were kind enough to redirect it to a new title "Ethiopian involvement in the Somali Civil War" the next day. And someone kindly rewrote the Current Events headline. This article's first sentence was "The Ethiopian war in Somalia began on 8 December 2006", and that later was sourced to Al Jazeera on 8 December. But Al Jazeera even the following day 9 December reported fears and great concern that war will break out, not that a new war started. I apologize in advance for my lack of understanding. Susanlesch 09:05, 12 December 2006 (UTC) with minor edits at :39.

I'm for seeing how this event plays out before moving or merging this article. The current events could well be the start of a major conflict in the area (especially if Eritrea gets involved). On the other hand if it doesn't flare up into a major conflict this article can be safely incorporated into Ethiopian involvement in Somalia and/or Somali Civil War. Feer 17:49, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Feer, you have done some really nice work on this one. I am guessing that it is and will continue to be difficult to maintain multiple articles and to keep them in sync, for example, history from as recently as earlier this year in July 2006 is skipped here. Susanlesch 22:58, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

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You have made an error, see the Afghan Civil War campaignbox. Also, 1982 Lebanon War isn't called Israeli involvement in the Lebanese Civil War. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 13:33, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

It is the first day of what is reported as direct conflict between the ICU and Ethiopian troops. It would be highly POV to dub this as the "Ethiopian war in Somalia". As of now, it is merely intervention on the part of one party within the overall context of the ongoing Somali Civil War. Further, the name is highly POV as no 3rd party has yet to confirm direct Ethiopian involvement. As Fornadan said above, it is best to wait and see how things develop. —Aiden 13:39, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Do you agree that the name should be changed if all the matters you addressed are confirmed? Btw. I put the previous name with the Soviet war in Afghanistan with a similar context in mind --TheFEARgod (Ч) 13:44, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

If this proves to escalate into a full-scale war between the ICU and Ethiopian troops, of course the title of the article should reflect that. But like I said, let's not jump the gun. As of now this is merely being reported as direct Ethiopian involvement in what has been a long-running civil war in Somalia. This does not constitute a separate war (at this point, at least). —Aiden 14:42, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

On the other hand the US involvement is treated seperately. I suggest we keep this as a seperate article as long as the issue doesn't settle down. Once it isn't a current event we can merge it. Wandalstouring 20:08, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I would wait with the merge until this plays out --TheFEARgod (Ч) 23:50, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

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Now I understand the reason for all of the announcements of support for the House of People's Representatives "against the jihadists", which have appeared at the Walta Information Center website. (One example that stands out is this demonstration in the Somali Region.) Not sure if a list of these announcements adds much value to this article -- even if it can be proved that they show actual popular support. -- llywrch 22:17, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Be careful with such reports. The allegiance of Ogaden isn't so clear. Wandalstouring 20:06, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

As always it falls along clan lines. Some clans are pro-ICU in the Somali region, some have supported the Meles Zenawi government and the vast majority have taken a "wait and see" approach. Most of the "wait and see" crowd probably want to see if the ICU can defeat Ethiopia before throwing their support behind them. --Ingoman 20:10, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Excuse my cynicism, but I distrust these reports more on the fact that in many parts of the world, the local government can organize a local group to pass a resolution supporting or condemning a given point. (Heck, you could do this in North America or Europe simply by offering free booze to any or everyone, then convincing them to sign "this little piece of paper" that endorses the resolution.) Now, even if we assuming these resolutions do represent grass-root support for Ethiopia's actions in Somalia, the question remains whether any of these groups are willing to volunteer manpower or donate money to this cause -- that would be more meaningful. -- llywrch 21:04, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

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[edit] US Involvement and Tacit/Explicit Backing of Ethiopia

While it might be a prickly issue for many, I believe this article needs to also fold in mentions of the United States' involvement in the region. The accusations of the UIC/SICC is that Ethiopia, a mainly-Christian nation, is seen as a US-proxy in the Global War on Terror (GWOT). The US further heightens that perception when the US State Department says that al Qaeda cells are in control of the UIC. However, broader discussion probably belongs on a GWOT-oriented page primarily. Yet this adds a new layer to the onion, as it were, thus bore mentioning in this topic. -- Petercorless 06:32, 15 December 2006 (UTC)