Wikipedia talk:Esperanza/Admin coaching

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shortcut:
WT:ESP/AC

Contents

[edit] Who needs a coach? List your name here.

The list has been moved here. --Fang Aili talk 21:21, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I've restored the main list.  The Transhumanist   00:24, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
Just my two cents- I really like the subpage system that Fang Aili set up. It looked much simpler on the main page, and kept things very organized. I know it may require watching a couple more pages, but I really prefer it. Other input and comments is definitely appreciated and necessary, of course. Cheers, EWS23 (Leave me a message!) 00:27, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
Can we try the method I've proposed below, using "(assigned)"?  The Transhumanist   00:36, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
I've reverted my revert, and have added live requests bac to the request list.  The Transhumanist   00:48, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm truly sorry to have had to do this, but I've reverted your addition of 67369 characters of text (the whole requests section) to the requests listing. The best way to list unassigned ones is to make a very concise listing for each prospective coachee on the requests page, using the details at the archives. The aim of the new system is efficiency, not to have the same old mess! Please, help with the transefferal of active requests rather than disrupting the whole page to get your sole opinion of using one system across. Thanks, Martinp23 00:56, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm simply trying to preserve the order in which people are waiting in line, and active message threads (it is generally considered inappropriate to archive active discussions). I'm in the process of checking the status of each entry. By the way, it's still very simple, because it is a linear list.  The Transhumanist   01:13, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project page revamp ideas

When I get a little time here in the next few days/weeks, I'd like to revamp the project page.

  1. The coaching box is redundant with the status page.
  2. The volunteers should be listed on their own page.
  3. The coaching requests should be listed on their own page.

Basically I would like to simplify the project page so it's easier to navigate. If you have any objections/ideas please let me know. I will probably scrap the coaching box, because the status page lists that information and more. And separate pages for volunteers and requests will make the main page easier to read, and requests can be easily removed once they are fulfilled. --Fang Aili talk 18:42, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I went ahead and did it. Comments welcome. --Fang Aili talk 23:00, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
It looks a lot more organized to me. Thanks for your efforts. Firsfron of Ronchester 23:06, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Dunno why The Transhumanist reverted, but is there any explanation (before an edit war ensues?). Martinp23 00:27, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
I've asked on his/her talk page. Martinp23 00:32, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
Ugh, I just lost all my messages to this page in an edit conflict. Oops. Basically, the forum page method works well, but was only partially implemented - the part that wasn't implemented yet was to simply place "(assigned)" next to each student as they get a coach. It then becomes a simple matter of working down the list. This retains the message threads, which makes the program much more organic.  The Transhumanist   00:33, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
Not really, as the page (as it was, and is) will scare off any potential admin helper (it scared me!). If you take a look at the new reqeusts page, you'll see that Fang Alai is planning to get those unassigned fromt he old list and add them, in a simple way, to the new. As the page (now and proposed) is a requests listing, it shouldn't really be treated as a forum, lest it becomes too unweildy (as it is now!!). Can I please encourage you, Transhumanist, to revert back to the subpage version and help by adding to the list of unassigned coachees? Thanks, Martinp23 00:37, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
Done. You're right, the subpage system is simpler. I just couldn't find the message threads earlier. I've restored them to the request page, and will help Fang Ali update the assignment status as she requested on my talk page.  The Transhumanist   00:47, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Query

I'm wondering, I used to be an admin coach but removed myself when I left the wiki for a few months. I'd like to help out with this program again, so my question is, since I am no longer a member of Esperanza would it be a fallible assumption that I can just re-add myself to the active coaches page? KOS | talk 00:04, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know, being a member of Esperanza has never been a requirement for coaches or students. Feel free to re-add yourself- we always need as many coaches as possible! EWS23 (Leave me a message!) 01:21, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
Anyone can be a coach.  The Transhumanist   01:35, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sharing coaching techniques with others

In order to assist coaches, I've created a new page: Wikipedia:Esperanza/Admin coaching/Potential coaching techniques. I hope that this page will grow with many suggestions from former and current admin coaches about what works best for helping students. I've added a couple of my strategies on there already, and I invite you to do the same. Comments and questions about this page and its potential usefulness/uselessness are welcome. EWS23 (Leave me a message!) 01:24, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Great idea.  The Transhumanist   01:36, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed new instructions

Here's an idea for you to think about: we could write some simple instructions for coaches, so that they can process the request list as they become avaiable to coach. There's lots of coaches compared to coordinators, so shifting the burden to them spreads the work out so it doesn't overload one or two people. (That has contributed to the bottleneck). For example, the instructions to coaches could read something like this:

To select a coachee and begin his or her training, follow these steps:

  1. During a shortage of coaches please take on as many students as you believe you can comfortably handle. Also keep in mind that coaches can team up to share one or more students.
  2. Starting at the top of the request page, find the first entry that says "(unassigned)".
  3. Change the status to "(assigned)".
  4. Add a note just below the heading that says "paired with ___________." (Fill in the blank with your username.
  5. Contact the coachee to inform him or her that you are his or her coach.
  6. If it turns out they already have a coach, then make a "paired with" note of the assignment on the request page, and move on to the next available entry.
  7. Once you've received confirmation from the coachee, set up a subpage of his or her userpage called "Admin coaching". If you have or expect to have more than one coachee, set the subpage up under your own userpage and instruct your students on that page. Make sure they know where their training shall be taking place.
  8. Add a link leading to the admin coaching subpage you've created on the central list at Wikipedia:Esperanza/Admin coaching/Coaching advice pages.

So instead of contacting the coachees, we should contact the current coaches on the list with an email pointing to the new instructions. New coaches will automatically see the instructions wherever they sign up. This will free up coordinators so they more easily oversee that everything is running smoothly.

Any thoughts?  The Transhumanist   05:36, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I have several concerns.
  1. I disagree with the (unassigned) and (assigned) stuff because I do not think the request list should be handled that way. It should be a simple numbered and dated list. Please see the requests talk page for more about this. The current Requests page is a complete disaster area, and no potential coach will want to wade through it.
  2. I think most coaches use a "admin coaching" subpage, but it shouldn't be required.
  3. There's no mention of the status page, which is where the whole project is managed. It's from the status page that we know if we have any coaches available and who is being coached--basically everything in the program. Coaches should update their status there, and choose to participate in coaching advice pages if they wish.
I have a few other concerns, but basically the Requests page is broken and we need to fix that before writing instructions. --Fang Aili talk 06:51, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
As an admin coach, I agree that few admin coaches are going to wade through that mess. I would expect that the coordinators keep an organized list, and that list is definitely not organized. I also don't think there should be instructions to take on as many trainees as possible; we aren't churning out admin trainees; I'd prefer quality over quantity. Is it better to train 5 great potential admins or 30 half-trained ones? I much prefer the 1-on-one (or even two-on-one) approach. This also has a hint of instruction creep to it. Admin coaching was always supposed to be informal, as far as I know. Firsfron of Ronchester 07:05, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
Personally, when I handled the program, I kept the list of users and coaches in an Excel spreadsheet, and assigned coaches that way. The coaching box was a summary of the assignments I made. Currently, the requests page is a mess, and I sure wouldn't want to go grab someone from there. Titoxd(?!?) 07:08, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
  • (edit conflict) That assumes a coach a) wants to use a coaching subpage; b) is watching this page, to begin with; c) wants to coach a user alone, without any assistant coaches (which I do not consider adequate) and d) that the page won't get stuck when an unacceptable candidate comes to the top of the queue and no one wants to coach them. Titoxd(?!?) 07:06, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
(Sorry about the edit conflict). These are all excellent points, Titoxd. Regarding mandatory assignments... some of the coaches on the list specifically signed up with the proviso they could turn down potential trainees. Requiring coaches to take the next case will likely only cause a bottleneck, or cause coaches to leave the program. Although I had only one admin coach (and she was very good), I recognize not everyone will be so lucky. Furthermore, as we are all volunteers, and admin coaches are just as likely to go on wikibreak as anyone else, it would be good to have more than one coach assigned to each trainee. Firsfron of Ronchester 07:21, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
This is a good argument for coaches to pick their own assignments.  The Transhumanist   10:37, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


We currently have around 53 unassigned requests, and 15 coaches waiting for an assignment. We need to come up with at least 38 more coaches, or take up the slack in some other way. Should there be a limit on how many students a coach should have?  The Transhumanist   10:37, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Titoxd, since you ran the program for awhile, would you mind sharing the procedures you followed when doing so? How did you decide who got assigned to who, how long did coaching assignments last (until the coachee became an admin, or until the coach thought they were trained?), and what did you do when an admin or student dropped out and left the other without a partner, etc.? How long of a wikibreak breaks the asignment. Anything you can tell us could be helpful in bringing important considerations to light. Can anyone coach, or did you turn some volunteers away? (Did you use a screening process, criteria, or just go by a general impression of whether they were experienced enough to be a coach)? And anything else you can think of.  The Transhumanist   10:37, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I like to keep the "Admin coaching" subpage with the coachee since I team coach. Also I don't think I would want to have coachees intermingle their responses. ++Lar: t/c 20:31, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please comment - Request page options

Regarding coach requests lists, do you refer:

  1. Option one, or
  2. Option two
Prefer option one


Prefer option two
  • Fang Aili talk 18:24, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
  • As a potential admin coacher, I wouldn't dare even think of bothering to read through the first one! Martinp23 18:38, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
  • I prefer Option 2, but would like to see each user entry have a bolded entry that explains what's going on with them. Firsfron of Ronchester 20:12, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
    My idea was to insert temporary bolded notes for the in-between-stage people. (Between listing him/herself and actually being coached.) For the older requests especially, there's a need to contact users to see if they are still interested. Users who have a coach get removed. --Fang Aili talk 20:46, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Slightly. Either one is fine though. Whichever is easier for the maintainers... ++Lar: t/c 20:27, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
    I consider the 2nd better because we are trying to eliminate the role of the maintainers as much as possible. What we'd like to do is have the program more or less run itself, and by providing a numbered list we can direct coaches (via an instruction page) to contact a student from or near the top of the list, rather than waiting for a coordinator to do the pairing. --Fang Aili talk 20:52, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
  • This one is neater and easier to read through. CattleGirl talk | e@ 01:11, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
  • I think I prefer this form. Am I assuming correctly that after a request is fulfilled the name is removed from the list? If so, this works for me. :) --Brad Beattie (talk) 01:24, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Either is fine. We should wrap this up and move on to formulating the instructions. The consensus that had been forming concrning instrucions was to keep them simple. Any ideas?  The Transhumanist   22:27, 11 December 2006 (UTC) (posted by 67.183.16.236 - if this is you Transhumanist, please confirm by logging in :D). Thanks, Martinp23 22:35, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, option 2 then. I will move it from its subpage. --Fang Aili talk 14:59, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../e/s/p/Wikipedia_talk%7EEsperanza_Admin_coaching_74dd.html"