Wikipedia:Esperanza/Advisory Committee Meeting March 2006/log

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26/03/2006 16:31 Celestianpower So, is everyone ready
26/03/2006 16:31 Celestianpower  ?
26/03/2006 16:31 KnowledgeOfSelf Yes
26/03/2006 16:32 Celestianpower Can we all stalk !AC please?
26/03/2006 16:32 JoanneB yes
26/03/2006 16:32 Celestianpower /stalk !AC
26/03/2006 16:32 Celestianpower FireFox>
26/03/2006 16:32 Celestianpower *?
26/03/2006 16:32 FireFox hello
26/03/2006 16:33 Celestianpower FireFox: You stalking !AC ?
26/03/2006 16:33 FireFox I am
26/03/2006 16:33 Celestianpower Good, right
26/03/2006 16:33 Celestianpower Firstly, I would like to congratulate KnowledgeOfSelf and JoanneB for joining our little group
26/03/2006 16:33 JoanneB thank you :-)
26/03/2006 16:33 KnowledgeOfSelf Thank you
26/03/2006 16:33 Celestianpower And welcome you as such
26/03/2006 16:34 Celestianpower So, down to business, first issue I would like to raise is that of the regularity of meetings
26/03/2006 16:34 JoanneB hm can we still add stuff to the agenda?
26/03/2006 16:34 JoanneB or do we do that later?
26/03/2006 16:34 Celestianpower I've been quite lax of late and forgotten for weeks and weeks
26/03/2006 16:34 Celestianpower JoanneB: I'll ask about that later
26/03/2006 16:34 JoanneB ok
26/03/2006 16:34 JoanneB sorry
26/03/2006 16:35 Celestianpower  !AC Is there a better way of organising them and do we want them as regularly. Would once a month be better?
26/03/2006 16:35 KnowledgeOfSelf I think we should have meetings at least once a month
26/03/2006 16:35 JoanneB agrees
26/03/2006 16:36 Celestianpower Yes
26/03/2006 16:36 Celestianpower But is the aim of fortnightly unmanageable?
26/03/2006 16:36 JoanneB well it might be harder then the have the whole group together
26/03/2006 16:38 KnowledgeOfSelf Celestianpower: I think the real question is "Is there enough elements, so to speak, that need to be covered every two weeks?"
26/03/2006 16:39 Celestianpower Yes
26/03/2006 16:39 Celestianpower Are there?
26/03/2006 16:39 Celestianpower Personally, I don't think there are
26/03/2006 16:40 KnowledgeOfSelf I agree, there doesn't seem to be
26/03/2006 16:40 JoanneB me neither
26/03/2006 16:40 Celestianpower  !AC So, all in favour of it being monthly rather than fortnightly say "aye"
26/03/2006 16:40 Celestianpower Aye
26/03/2006 16:40 JoanneB aye
26/03/2006 16:41 KnowledgeOfSelf Once a month sounds right. And if something urgent comes up you could always call for a second meeting
26/03/2006 16:41 FireFox aye
26/03/2006 16:41 KnowledgeOfSelf Aye
26/03/2006 16:41 Celestianpower Good
26/03/2006 16:41 Celestianpower Second thing I'd like to bring up is the IRC channel
26/03/2006 16:42 Celestianpower We recently had a problem in that Essjay thought he should be able to ban people (anyone) without either discussion or even letting any of us know
26/03/2006 16:42 Celestianpower Is this a good thing?
26/03/2006 16:42 KnowledgeOfSelf It's circumstantial
26/03/2006 16:42 JoanneB well, in general, I'd say that banning anyone from the channel should happen after a discussion with at least one other AC member or the Admin Gen
26/03/2006 16:43 JoanneB but I can always see moments that would call for an exception to that rule
26/03/2006 16:43 FireFox I don't think it did any harm in the long run. He maybe should have told someone that he had banned someone, but if banning is the right thing to do �at the time, �then I see nothing wrong with doing it without discussion
26/03/2006 16:43 KnowledgeOfSelf If we trust an user with "op", I think we should respect their decision to ban someone
26/03/2006 16:44 Celestianpower Yeah
26/03/2006 16:44 JoanneB KnowledgeOfSelf: good point
26/03/2006 16:44 Celestianpower Obviously, flagrant warring or vandalism calls for an instant ban
26/03/2006 16:44 KnowledgeOfSelf I do agree that one of us should be notified
26/03/2006 16:44 KnowledgeOfSelf Again It's all circumstantial
26/03/2006 16:44 FireFox A staff log perhaps?
26/03/2006 16:44 Celestianpower But a lot of cases are more complex than that and I feel that
26/03/2006 16:45 Celestianpower discussion or notification is necessary
26/03/2006 16:45 FireFox I know it's stealing from the idea of the CVU, but that is how everyone ends up knowing what has happened
26/03/2006 16:45 Celestianpower FireFox: That sounds like a good idea
26/03/2006 16:45 JoanneB FireFox: very true
26/03/2006 16:46 Celestianpower KnowledgeOfSelf: Do you think a staff log is a good idea?
26/03/2006 16:47 KnowledgeOfSelf Possibly, staff actions in the Esperanza channel are rather minuscule
26/03/2006 16:47 JoanneB most of them, yes
26/03/2006 16:47 Celestianpower And ops are handed out pretty liberally
26/03/2006 16:47 KnowledgeOfSelf I think a log of who has op who has been banned should be included, but if someone gets an auto +v, I do not think that type of action should be logged
26/03/2006 16:48 Celestianpower KnowledgeOfSelf: Yeah
26/03/2006 16:49 Celestianpower  !AC So are we of the conclusion that a log is to be made of all bans in #wikipedia-esperanza ?
26/03/2006 16:49 Celestianpower If so, say "aye"
26/03/2006 16:49 Celestianpower Aye
26/03/2006 16:49 KnowledgeOfSelf Logs and who gets op?
26/03/2006 16:49 Celestianpower KnowledgeOfSelf: Yes
26/03/2006 16:49 KnowledgeOfSelf Aye
26/03/2006 16:49 JoanneB Aye
26/03/2006 16:49 Celestianpower FireFox?
26/03/2006 16:49 FireFox Yes
26/03/2006 16:49 KnowledgeOfSelf of*
26/03/2006 16:49 Celestianpower Right
26/03/2006 16:50 Celestianpower That's my business sorted
26/03/2006 16:50 Celestianpower  !AC Any issues wanted to be raised by any of you?
26/03/2006 16:50 KnowledgeOfSelf hmm
26/03/2006 16:50 KnowledgeOfSelf brb
26/03/2006 16:50 Celestianpower KnowledgeOfSelf: Okay
26/03/2006 16:51 JoanneB Celestianpower: three of them. 1) Bots in the channel 2) Membership requirements and 3) Code of conduct. But let's wait till KnowledgeOfSelf gets back
26/03/2006 16:51 Celestianpower Yes
26/03/2006 16:52 KnowledgeOfSelf is back
26/03/2006 16:53 Celestianpower Right, bots in channel
26/03/2006 16:53 Celestianpower JoanneB: What did you want to have discussed?
26/03/2006 16:54 JoanneB Well, there have been quite a number of bots in the channel lately. First I thought that freenode allowed only 1 social bot per channel, but apparently, that's not the case. Still though, I'm not sure if a channel full of bots and experimenting with them is the way to go
26/03/2006 16:54 KnowledgeOfSelf Exactly
26/03/2006 16:55 KnowledgeOfSelf Well, room owner, and or staff should be able to set a limit on how many bots are allowed in the channel
26/03/2006 16:55 Celestianpower Personally, I would say, a bot that welcomed a user to a channel, ld be plenty
26/03/2006 16:56 JoanneB they are fun, to a point, but a bot that kisses others on various body parts, has a way of pointing the conversations into areas that you do not want to go with minors in the channel
26/03/2006 16:56 JoanneB or even without minors in the channel
26/03/2006 16:57 Celestianpower I agree - bots like that shouldn't be allowed
26/03/2006 16:57 KnowledgeOfSelf Indeed, they are fun, maybe we could ask the bot owner, to remove certain phrases, and "body parts" from that command
26/03/2006 16:57 JoanneB yes
26/03/2006 16:57 Celestianpower ESP_Bar_keep does all we want it to
26/03/2006 16:57 Celestianpower Do we need any more than that?
26/03/2006 16:57 KnowledgeOfSelf would like to state that he named, ESP_Bar_Keep :D
26/03/2006 16:58 JoanneB lol
26/03/2006 16:58 KnowledgeOfSelf Celestianpower: No, I don't think we do
26/03/2006 16:58 JoanneB well, if there's one bot, it's easier to keep an eye on it
26/03/2006 16:58 KnowledgeOfSelf We have had at least 3 bots in the ESP channel at one point or an other
26/03/2006 16:58 Celestianpower Yeah
26/03/2006 16:58 Celestianpower So,
26/03/2006 16:59 JoanneB but if several people want to build a better bot together, improve Bar_Keep so to speak, they should be able to I think - we do not need to limit that completely
26/03/2006 16:59 Celestianpower  !AC Do we want to limit the number of bots to one
26/03/2006 16:59 JoanneB but within reason
26/03/2006 16:59 Celestianpower  ?
26/03/2006 16:59 KnowledgeOfSelf A very loud and resounding aye
26/03/2006 16:59 JoanneB yes
26/03/2006 17:00 FireFox fine with me
26/03/2006 17:00 Celestianpower Cool
26/03/2006 17:00 Celestianpower Next
26/03/2006 17:00 Celestianpower JoanneB: What was next?
26/03/2006 17:00 JoanneB Membership requirements
26/03/2006 17:01 JoanneB KnowledgeOfSelf wanted to talk about that too
26/03/2006 17:01 Celestianpower Okay
26/03/2006 17:01 KnowledgeOfSelf Indeed
26/03/2006 17:01 Celestianpower What about it?
26/03/2006 17:01 JoanneB I was going to propose to change them, lower them, but you convinced me last week - still it's something that's talked about
26/03/2006 17:01 JoanneB and we need to take a position so that we can explain why we will or will not touch them
26/03/2006 17:02 KnowledgeOfSelf That is what I wanted to discuss, I do not see the point in having the "community within the community" having a requirement to join
26/03/2006 17:02 Celestianpower My opinion is that, if anything, they need to be raised
26/03/2006 17:03 Celestianpower The aim of Esperanza is to make WP a nicer place to be
26/03/2006 17:03 KnowledgeOfSelf Esperanza is to spread hope, joy, and to reach out to the Wikipedia community, not to push them away until we are ready to accept them
26/03/2006 17:03 Celestianpower How does having hundreds of members who either ignore this, don't take an active role or leave quickly because they get bored help?
26/03/2006 17:04 Celestianpower KnowledgeOfSelf: Yes, reach out to them - not make them members
26/03/2006 17:04 KnowledgeOfSelf Celestianpower: That is a valid and true point
26/03/2006 17:04 JoanneB KnowledgeOfSelf: if we don't touch them, we should still think of a way of very visibly and explicitly not ignoring them
26/03/2006 17:04 KnowledgeOfSelf But when I first came across Esperanza I was dismayed becuase I was too "new" to join
26/03/2006 17:04 KnowledgeOfSelf I almost didn't join
26/03/2006 17:04 JoanneB asking them if we can help with anything etc.
26/03/2006 17:05 JoanneB a clear explanation of why we don't allow new users to join, in a friendly tone, might help
26/03/2006 17:05 KnowledgeOfSelf JoanneB: Great idea
26/03/2006 17:05 JoanneB I mean, I was convinced by CP's point, but I had not thought about it myself that way until reading it
26/03/2006 17:05 JoanneB so that might help tremendously
26/03/2006 17:06 Celestianpower JoanneB: Yes, definately
26/03/2006 17:06 Celestianpower JoanneB: Great idea
26/03/2006 17:06 Celestianpower FireFox: Your thoughts?
26/03/2006 17:06 FireFox Yeah, good ide
26/03/2006 17:06 FireFox idea*
26/03/2006 17:07 Celestianpower Right, do you want me to do it?
26/03/2006 17:07 JoanneB sure :-)
26/03/2006 17:07 JoanneB we can help, if you've drafted something for example
26/03/2006 17:07 KnowledgeOfSelf Aye ;)
26/03/2006 17:08 Celestianpower Oh okay
26/03/2006 17:08 Celestianpower Of course, as it'll require a change to the charter, it'll need to be proposed on the talk page
26/03/2006 17:08 JoanneB charter change?
26/03/2006 17:08 KnowledgeOfSelf  ?
26/03/2006 17:09 KnowledgeOfSelf Why would the charter need to be changed?
26/03/2006 17:09 Celestianpower Oh, you think it should be said elsewhere
26/03/2006 17:09 Celestianpower  ?
26/03/2006 17:09 Celestianpower I assumed you meant clarify that *in the charter*
26/03/2006 17:09 JoanneB no
26/03/2006 17:09 JoanneB just somewhere on the membership page
26/03/2006 17:09 JoanneB that's what the new users will read
26/03/2006 17:09 KnowledgeOfSelf Maybe it should be stated at Wikipedia:Esperanza/Members
26/03/2006 17:09 JoanneB or what KnowledgeOfSelf said ;-)
26/03/2006 17:10 KnowledgeOfSelf  :)
26/03/2006 17:10 Celestianpower Okay
26/03/2006 17:10 Celestianpower So,
26/03/2006 17:10 Celestianpower  !AC Are we all agreed that we should clarify the reasons for not accepting new users on Wikipedia:Esperanza/Members?
26/03/2006 17:10 Celestianpower Aye
26/03/2006 17:10 KnowledgeOfSelf Aye
26/03/2006 17:11 FireFox Yep
26/03/2006 17:11 JoanneB Aye
26/03/2006 17:11 KnowledgeOfSelf I also have two issues or points I'd like to raise, after we have discussed JoanneB's third issue
26/03/2006 17:11 JoanneB my third issue is that I propose a 'code of conduct' for Esperanza members.
26/03/2006 17:11 JoanneB In the recent past, there have been a couple of incidents, either on WP or in the channel in which the behavior of Esperanza members was uncivil or in an other way 'undesirable' to other Esperanzians or to other Wikipedians. For the privacy of the people involved, I will not go into too much detail, but in short the behaviour was against the spirit of Esperanza. The charter covers some of...
26/03/2006 17:11 JoanneB ...this, but in my opinion not detailed enough. I'd like us to make a 'code of conduct', that every member 'signs' by joining, and that we can speak to them about it when we see behaviour that's going against it
26/03/2006 17:12 JoanneB It would also be a message to other Wikipedians that we're not just some community of people mostly having fun and just chatting, but that we're really dedicated to making WP a better place, by starting with our own behaviour as members.
26/03/2006 17:12 JoanneB I copy pasted that from my notebook, I don't type that fast ;-)
26/03/2006 17:12 Celestianpower lol
26/03/2006 17:12 KnowledgeOfSelf Heh
26/03/2006 17:12 Celestianpower I think that's a good idea
26/03/2006 17:13 KnowledgeOfSelf I think it is a capital idea
26/03/2006 17:13 JoanneB  :)
26/03/2006 17:13 FireFox  :)
26/03/2006 17:13 KnowledgeOfSelf Who is going to draw this "code of conduct"?
26/03/2006 17:13 Celestianpower It'd be a major change to the charter so would definately need proposing properly
26/03/2006 17:13 JoanneB I'd gladly draft a concept of it
26/03/2006 17:13 JoanneB yes, it would
26/03/2006 17:14 KnowledgeOfSelf Indeed it is
26/03/2006 17:14 JoanneB and it's not something we should do in a week or so
26/03/2006 17:14 Celestianpower Would we require that current members sign it?
26/03/2006 17:14 KnowledgeOfSelf Yes
26/03/2006 17:14 KnowledgeOfSelf It sets an example, that we are willing to stand by it
26/03/2006 17:14 Celestianpower As in, comment out their names and require them to come and uncomment them to show their acceptance?
26/03/2006 17:14 JoanneB Yes, but the excact implementation of that would need to be discussed in a later stage, I think
26/03/2006 17:14 JoanneB KnowledgeOfSelf: exactly
26/03/2006 17:15 Celestianpower Or something along those lines
26/03/2006 17:15 JoanneB Celestianpower: that might be a way, maybe there are other ways
26/03/2006 17:15 JoanneB yes
26/03/2006 17:15 Celestianpower Right
26/03/2006 17:15 Celestianpower So,
26/03/2006 17:15 JoanneB I think content comes first, implementation will follow :-0
26/03/2006 17:15 KnowledgeOfSelf I think that will be something to discuss once it is accepted by the community, and once it is drawn up
26/03/2006 17:15 KnowledgeOfSelf Yes
26/03/2006 17:16 KnowledgeOfSelf For now we should just come to an agreement on if we would want to propose this, and how soon we want to propose this
26/03/2006 17:16 JoanneB yes
26/03/2006 17:16 Celestianpower  !AC Are we all agreed that we should propose a code of conduct to the community, create a draft and, if accepted, remove all of the membersd and ask them to resign up, hereby accepting the terms of the code?
26/03/2006 17:17 KnowledgeOfSelf Aye
26/03/2006 17:17 Celestianpower Aye
26/03/2006 17:17 JoanneB Aye
26/03/2006 17:17 JoanneB erm wait
26/03/2006 17:17 FireFox eyA
26/03/2006 17:17 JoanneB sorry
26/03/2006 17:17 Celestianpower FireFox: lol
26/03/2006 17:17 JoanneB I'd like to take that back :D
26/03/2006 17:17 Celestianpower JoanneB: Oh
26/03/2006 17:17 KnowledgeOfSelf  ?
26/03/2006 17:17 KnowledgeOfSelf Ah yes
26/03/2006 17:18 JoanneB Are we all agreed that we should propose a code of conduct to the community, create a draft and, YES ----- if accepted, remove all of the membersd and ask them to resign up, hereby accepting the terms of the code? --- let's decide on the how later
26/03/2006 17:18 Celestianpower Okay
26/03/2006 17:18 FireFox Isn't that the same?
26/03/2006 17:18 KnowledgeOfSelf Heh
26/03/2006 17:18 Celestianpower  !AC Are we all agreed that we should propose a code of conduct to the community and create a draft?
26/03/2006 17:18 KnowledgeOfSelf Celestianpower: That is much better
26/03/2006 17:18 KnowledgeOfSelf Aye
26/03/2006 17:19 JoanneB AYE!
26/03/2006 17:19 Celestianpower Aye
26/03/2006 17:19 JoanneB  :)
26/03/2006 17:19 Celestianpower Good
26/03/2006 17:19 Celestianpower Right, KnowledgeOfSelf: You had some issues that needed to be raised?
26/03/2006 17:20 KnowledgeOfSelf Yes, but they are rather minuscule after that last one by JoanneB :P
26/03/2006 17:20 JoanneB lol
26/03/2006 17:21 Celestianpower KnowledgeOfSelf: No matter
26/03/2006 17:21 KnowledgeOfSelf My first issue is, Wikipedia:Esperanza/Reach out, if you look at the history, it's been used once back in November
26/03/2006 17:21 Celestianpower Yes
26/03/2006 17:22 KnowledgeOfSelf I think we should some how incorporate it with other ESP programs so that it may be utilized
26/03/2006 17:22 JoanneB good idea
26/03/2006 17:22 KnowledgeOfSelf Either that, or remove it
26/03/2006 17:22 Celestianpower It, along with many other of our programs, just needs advertisment
26/03/2006 17:23 KnowledgeOfSelf Maybe set it into the next news letter we send out?
26/03/2006 17:23 JoanneB good idea
26/03/2006 17:24 KnowledgeOfSelf Also, if I may add this in late, the code of conduct being inserted into the next news letter will alert users to the fact that we are proposing it
26/03/2006 17:24 JoanneB agreed
26/03/2006 17:24 Celestianpower Yes
26/03/2006 17:24 Celestianpower Okay
26/03/2006 17:25 Celestianpower Next, KnowledgeOfSelf?
26/03/2006 17:25 FireFox has a small question
26/03/2006 17:25 KnowledgeOfSelf FireFox?
26/03/2006 17:25 FireFox When is the next spamming?
26/03/2006 17:25 KnowledgeOfSelf Ah
26/03/2006 17:25 KnowledgeOfSelf That is covered in my next issue
26/03/2006 17:25 JoanneB lol
26/03/2006 17:25 KnowledgeOfSelf  :)
26/03/2006 17:25 FireFox  :) ok
26/03/2006 17:26 Celestianpower Next spamming is right after the meeting
26/03/2006 17:26 Celestianpower Well, I'll write it then
26/03/2006 17:27 Celestianpower We need someone to spam (actually message people)
26/03/2006 17:27 KnowledgeOfSelf Since it was agreed in a previous AC meeting that the spam is no longer spam, but is now a news letter, I'd like to suggest that we briefly advertise our programs and alerts on the news letter
26/03/2006 17:28 KnowledgeOfSelf Something that explicitly encourages new and old users alike to participate
26/03/2006 17:28 FireFox I guess I can do the spamming
26/03/2006 17:28 Celestianpower FireFox: Thanks
26/03/2006 17:29 Celestianpower KnowledgeOfSelf: Yes
26/03/2006 17:29 JoanneB FireFox: if you want any help let me know
26/03/2006 17:29 FireFox Celestianpower: Can you get it done by 7 though, so I have enough time tonight?
26/03/2006 17:29 Celestianpower I'll format it more like a newsletter
26/03/2006 17:29 Celestianpower FireFox: Yeah, no problem
26/03/2006 17:29 Celestianpower JoanneB: Yes, you can copyedit :)
26/03/2006 17:29 JoanneB lol
26/03/2006 17:29 JoanneB sure
26/03/2006 17:30 FireFox JoanneB: I think I'll be ok - AWB is playing up, but I have tabs on userpages so if I put it in my namespace I can do it just as easily - if I run out of time tonight though, you could finish it, if you're still here :)
26/03/2006 17:30 JoanneB FireFox: deal :-)
26/03/2006 17:30 FireFox  :D
26/03/2006 17:30 KnowledgeOfSelf  !AC Any thoughts on adding a note about our programs and alerts into every newsletter?
26/03/2006 17:31 Celestianpower KnowledgeOfSelf: Yeah, we'll talk about that every meeting - whatprograms we want to "feature"
26/03/2006 17:31 JoanneB if it won't get too long... and we need to make sure people keep reading it, so it's not the same stuff every time
26/03/2006 17:31 Celestianpower Yeah
26/03/2006 17:31 JoanneB exactly
26/03/2006 17:31 KnowledgeOfSelf Great idea
26/03/2006 17:32 KnowledgeOfSelf I would like the "stress alerts" to be highlighted often, as I've been seeing more and more great user's being stressed
26/03/2006 17:32 KnowledgeOfSelf Celestianpower: That really is a great idea
26/03/2006 17:32 JoanneB yes
26/03/2006 17:32 KnowledgeOfSelf A feature program I like it
26/03/2006 17:33 Celestianpower I think reach out should be the one for this time, along with a small note about alerts
26/03/2006 17:33 JoanneB perhaps we could also ask for admin coaches - there's a huge backlog - just a one sentence thing with a link
26/03/2006 17:33 Celestianpower Yeah, oaky
26/03/2006 17:33 KnowledgeOfSelf thinks we should make Wikipedia:Esperanza/Reach out the first one
26/03/2006 17:33 Celestianpower KnowledgeOfSelf: Said that already
26/03/2006 17:33 KnowledgeOfSelf Ahh I see that was late lol
26/03/2006 17:34 Celestianpower So
26/03/2006 17:34 Celestianpower  !AC We all happy about the content of todays newsletter, and how and when it'll be distributed
26/03/2006 17:34 Celestianpower  ?
26/03/2006 17:35 JoanneB aye
26/03/2006 17:35 KnowledgeOfSelf Aye
26/03/2006 17:35 FireFox Two conditions
26/03/2006 17:35 KnowledgeOfSelf FireFox: They are?
26/03/2006 17:35 FireFox a) It's ready to go in 90 minutes, and b) �we don't have another database lock in the middle of me trying to deliver news, like last time!!
26/03/2006 17:35 KnowledgeOfSelf LOL
26/03/2006 17:36 FireFox Other than that, aye
26/03/2006 17:36 Celestianpower FireFox: Yeah lol
26/03/2006 17:36 Celestianpower So, KnowledgeOfSelf - any other issues?
26/03/2006 17:36 KnowledgeOfSelf Hmm
26/03/2006 17:36 KnowledgeOfSelf Wikipedia:Esperanza/NPA Reform
26/03/2006 17:37 Celestianpower KnowledgeOfSelf: Oh?
26/03/2006 17:37 KnowledgeOfSelf It hasn't had much of anything going on with it
26/03/2006 17:37 Celestianpower I think that's been abandonned hasn't it?
26/03/2006 17:37 Celestianpower It needed a discussion, not a vote
26/03/2006 17:38 KnowledgeOfSelf Should it be abandoned in a more explicit sense
26/03/2006 17:38 Celestianpower JoanneB and FireFox: You're thoughts?
26/03/2006 17:38 KnowledgeOfSelf Maybe remove it from Wikipedia:Esperanza/to do
26/03/2006 17:38 JoanneB agrees
26/03/2006 17:39 FireFox mmm
26/03/2006 17:39 FireFox also agrees
26/03/2006 17:39 Celestianpower Yeah
26/03/2006 17:39 JoanneB but I must say that I haven't really read up on that other than just glancing over it
26/03/2006 17:39 Celestianpower FireFox: mmm?
26/03/2006 17:39 JoanneB this whole thing was current in a rather busy time for me
26/03/2006 17:39 FireFox nothing :)
26/03/2006 17:39 Celestianpower JoanneB: Yeah, a mountain of votes and options a policy does not make
26/03/2006 17:39 Celestianpower FireFox: lol
26/03/2006 17:40 JoanneB Celestianpower: true
26/03/2006 17:40 JoanneB I'll read it though, perhaps it has some input for the Code of Conduct
26/03/2006 17:41 Celestianpower  !AC So are we agreeing to drop NPA reform in an explicit sense, add an {{inactive}} tag or something and remove from todo?
26/03/2006 17:41 JoanneB but anyway, we should keep the to do list as up to date as possible
26/03/2006 17:41 JoanneB Aye
26/03/2006 17:41 KnowledgeOfSelf Aye
26/03/2006 17:41 Celestianpower Aye
26/03/2006 17:41 Celestianpower FireFox?
26/03/2006 17:41 FireFox Yip
26/03/2006 17:41 JoanneB someone should thank Karmafist for his efforts though, I think
26/03/2006 17:41 Celestianpower Right
26/03/2006 17:41 Celestianpower JoanneB: Yes - you're good at that ;)
26/03/2006 17:42 JoanneB  :)
26/03/2006 17:42 JoanneB I'll think about it
26/03/2006 17:42 Celestianpower JoanneB: lol
26/03/2006 17:42 Celestianpower So, KnowledgeOfSelf: Anything else?
26/03/2006 17:42 KnowledgeOfSelf No none from my side of things...though I could go and look for some :P
26/03/2006 17:42 JoanneB  :P
26/03/2006 17:42 Celestianpower lol
26/03/2006 17:42 Celestianpower I have one more point
26/03/2006 17:43 Celestianpower Well, 2 more
26/03/2006 17:43 Celestianpower Charter ammendaments and expanding the AC
26/03/2006 17:43 KnowledgeOfSelf Ahh right
26/03/2006 17:44 JoanneB good point
26/03/2006 17:44 Celestianpower  !AC Should we discuss or vote for charter ammendments - I see no need for a vote, so long as nobody has any particular objections, it should be done, yes?
26/03/2006 17:44 JoanneB yes
26/03/2006 17:44 JoanneB votes are evil :-)
26/03/2006 17:44 Celestianpower Yes ;)
26/03/2006 17:45 Celestianpower KnowledgeOfSelf, FireFox?
26/03/2006 17:45 KnowledgeOfSelf discuss, aye
26/03/2006 17:45 FireFox Oui
26/03/2006 17:45 Celestianpower Good
26/03/2006 17:45 Celestianpower And number 2, AC expansion
26/03/2006 17:45 Celestianpower Are we all in favour of it on a broad level?
26/03/2006 17:45 KnowledgeOfSelf Unknown
26/03/2006 17:46 Celestianpower I'm starting to have doubts, this seems like a good working size to me
26/03/2006 17:46 JoanneB for me, it depends strongly on the how, what and why
26/03/2006 17:46 KnowledgeOfSelf undecided rather
26/03/2006 17:46 JoanneB I think there are some drawbacks to it that a lot of the advocates of a larger AC don't acknowledge
26/03/2006 17:47 KnowledgeOfSelf Exactly
26/03/2006 17:47 JoanneB it may become harder to reach a concensus - thus rendering the whole thing ineffective
26/03/2006 17:47 Celestianpower JoanneB: How would be in April, when FF and Tito are replaced/re-elected
26/03/2006 17:47 JoanneB and on a more practical level, meeting planning would be even harder
26/03/2006 17:47 Celestianpower JoanneB: Yeah
26/03/2006 17:47 Celestianpower JoanneB: But it might be easier - one or two people not here matters less
26/03/2006 17:47 JoanneB hm true
26/03/2006 17:47 KnowledgeOfSelf Whatever is done about it, it has to increase in "2's"
26/03/2006 17:47 JoanneB KnowledgeOfSelf: definitely
26/03/2006 17:47 Celestianpower KnowledgeOfSelf: Yeah
26/03/2006 17:48 KnowledgeOfSelf I've seen people saying expand it by "1".....
26/03/2006 17:48 JoanneB KnowledgeOfSelf: yes
26/03/2006 17:48 Celestianpower  !AC Are we in favour of re-openning discussion on the talk page?
26/03/2006 17:48 JoanneB yes
26/03/2006 17:48 Celestianpower Aye
26/03/2006 17:48 KnowledgeOfSelf Nay
26/03/2006 17:48 Celestianpower KnowledgeOfSelf: Oh?
26/03/2006 17:49 KnowledgeOfSelf I don't mean to be difficult about it, I just personally do not see a need to expand the AC
26/03/2006 17:49 Celestianpower KnowledgeOfSelf: Yeah
26/03/2006 17:50 Celestianpower I see your point
26/03/2006 17:50 Celestianpower I'm starting to come to that conclusion
26/03/2006 17:50 KnowledgeOfSelf I did at one point believe it should have been expanded, but it has now become apparent that it is not needed, in my eyes
26/03/2006 17:50 Celestianpower Yeah
26/03/2006 17:51 KnowledgeOfSelf knows he could be over ruled If FF says "aye"
26/03/2006 17:51 KnowledgeOfSelf So maybe we should get his anser :D
26/03/2006 17:51 KnowledgeOfSelf answer*
26/03/2006 17:51 FireFox No
26/03/2006 17:51 Celestianpower Okay
26/03/2006 17:51 FireFox I don't think an expansion is needed
26/03/2006 17:51 Celestianpower Well, I'm not toally convinced so I guess that failed then
26/03/2006 17:52 JoanneB ok
26/03/2006 17:52 Celestianpower 1.5 - 2.5
26/03/2006 17:52 Celestianpower Right, goos
26/03/2006 17:52 Celestianpower *good
26/03/2006 17:52 JoanneB well, I'm not convinced either, but I do think we need to be responsive to people wanting to discuss it
26/03/2006 17:52 Celestianpower  !AC So, anything else anyone wants to bring to the table?
26/03/2006 17:52 JoanneB we should clearly explain our reasons, not just say that we don't see a need
26/03/2006 17:52 FireFox I was thinking one minor thing
26/03/2006 17:53 Celestianpower FireFox: Yes
26/03/2006 17:53 FireFox Would it be better to sign the Esperanza "News" by all of us, not just by you, CP?
26/03/2006 17:53 Celestianpower FireFox: That's a good idea
26/03/2006 17:53 JoanneB agrees
26/03/2006 17:54 KnowledgeOfSelf Aye, on one condition
26/03/2006 17:54 KnowledgeOfSelf One of you will have to sign my name for me
26/03/2006 17:54 FireFox I have a proposition
26/03/2006 17:55 KnowledgeOfSelf FireFox: And it is?
26/03/2006 17:55 FireFox Hang on :P
26/03/2006 17:56 FireFox Why don't we just sign it Celestianpower, FireFox, etc etc, with the timestamp at the end, instead of the fancy sigs, cos that will take up lots of room, and lots of code
26/03/2006 17:56 KnowledgeOfSelf Aye
26/03/2006 17:56 JoanneB agreed
26/03/2006 17:56 JoanneB I thought that was the point from the beginning :D
26/03/2006 17:57 FireFox it wasn't clear :)
26/03/2006 17:57 JoanneB that's why I didn't really understand KnowledgeOfSelf's remark
26/03/2006 17:57 JoanneB that's why I didn't really understand KnowledgeOfSelf's remark
26/03/2006 17:57 JoanneB argh
26/03/2006 17:57 JoanneB ok I meant
26/03/2006 17:57 JoanneB wrong button
26/03/2006 17:57 FireFox lol
26/03/2006 17:57 KnowledgeOfSelf is seeing double
26/03/2006 17:57 Celestianpower Agreed
26/03/2006 17:57 KnowledgeOfSelf I made the remark because I assumed we were going to place ~~~~ from each of us on it
26/03/2006 17:57 Celestianpower  !AC Any other business?
26/03/2006 17:57 FireFox signs with ~~~ anyhow
26/03/2006 17:58 KnowledgeOfSelf None here
26/03/2006 17:58 FireFox Celestianpower: Have you started writing it yet?
26/03/2006 17:58 JoanneB no
26/03/2006 17:58 Celestianpower Celestianpower: No, I will do when this meeting is closed
26/03/2006 17:58 Celestianpower Can someone log it for me?
26/03/2006 17:58 FireFox Talking to oneself - sign of old age
26/03/2006 17:59 KnowledgeOfSelf lol
26/03/2006 17:59 Celestianpower lol
26/03/2006 17:59 Celestianpower Okay, summary time
26/03/2006 18:03 Celestianpower # Meetings are to be held monthly, not fortnightly.
26/03/2006 18:03 Celestianpower # ban and Op log to be made for the IRC channel
26/03/2006 18:03 Celestianpower # One bot at a time
26/03/2006 18:03 Celestianpower # Membership requirements - why? To be clarified
26/03/2006 18:03 Celestianpower # Code of Conduct to be drafted and proposed
26/03/2006 18:03 Celestianpower # Newsletter to get a revamp - "featured" program, signed by all
26/03/2006 18:03 Celestianpower # NPA reform to be dropped official ( {{inactive}} tag)
26/03/2006 18:03 Celestianpower # Charter ammendments to be discussed, not voted on
26/03/2006 18:03 Celestianpower # AC not to be proposed to be expanded by us, if others want to propose it, we will listen
26/03/2006 18:03 Celestianpower Did I miss anything?
26/03/2006 18:04 FireFox doesn't think so
26/03/2006 18:04 JoanneB me neither
26/03/2006 18:04 Celestianpower Good
26/03/2006 18:04 Celestianpower Right, can someone log for me
26/03/2006 18:05 Celestianpower And I'll set to work on the newsletter
26/03/2006 18:05 KnowledgeOfSelf Looks great
26/03/2006 18:05 Celestianpower Great meeting all!
26/03/2006 18:05 KnowledgeOfSelf Great meeting everyone
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