Talk:Ernest Emerson
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I've placed a number of tags onto this article and each concerns Relevance, spam and weasel words. My intention is to draw attention to them so that we can make this article wiki-compliant.
I think that the besy way to fix this article is to begin with a to-do list. I've started a to-do list below. You can add to it if you like. All authentic help is welcome. It is probably best not to remove items from the to-do list until everyone who wants to help has a chance to consider them and add to them.
If you think you can fix any part of this article, then please do and be bold about it. See Wikipedia:Be_bold_in_updating_pages.
==TO DO LIST FOR ERNEST EMERSON ARTICLE==
1. Read What wikipedia is to learn what is a good encyclopedic entry in Wikipedia.
2. Read Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not to learn what is not a good encyclopedic entry in Wikipedia.
3. Read Neutral point of view to understand the basics of how to write a good article in Wikipedia.
4. Try not to curry favor with stars of the knife community by insinuating spam into the Wikipedia community.
5. Find good example articles on which to model knife articles like this one.
6. Start again from the beginning and draft this article as an encyclopedic entry, instead of as a puff piece in a local Bargain Hunter rag, (as is common among many of these articles.)
7. Model this article after a good example article, such as past featured articles, so that it may someday be nominated to be one of the featured articles.
8. Try to keep in mind that anyone can read Wikipedia articles and that the impressions they form upon reading the knife articles may determine whether they view knife enthusiats as knife enthusiasts or as knife nuts.
Sam 19:30, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Sam,
Ernie has been studying the arts almost his entire life and teaching them for the past 20-30. He is an instructor at the JFK Special Forces School and is a senior editor of Black Belt magazine in addition to being a Gunsite, HK and Blackwater instructor. This has been well documented throughout this article. Note the numerous martial arts magazine articles written about as well as by Mr Emerson. Inside Kung Fu Martial arts Magazine Combatives December Black Belt May04 Black belt Feb04 Black Belt Tactical Weapons Police Magazine June06 Tactical Gear Summer Edition Police Magazine October 2002 SWAT Magazine March06
Shall I include links to the numerous classes he teaches around the world? I don't want to do that as it may look like advertising or spam.--Mike Searson 18:50, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
1.(b) Please try to maintain some civility in working on this article. Wikipedia is a collaborative effort managed by consensus. These articles don't have to be done in one day, but they have to be done right.
Reply to first point. I clarified the scope and tone of this article.
This biography page is about Ernest Emerson as a custom knifemaker and as a martial artist. You are correct in saying that simply by being a martial artist it does not make you a better knifemaker and the inverse is true, being a knifemaker doesn't necesarrily make you a martial artist! In this case, what the original author (not myself) was trying to show was that Emerson is in a unique position to be both. Mr Emerson is a Martial artist...is this what you are trying to dispute? --Mike Searson 18:41, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
b. Reply to second point: Again, this is Mr Emerson's biography page. I feel that a biography should include where a person was born and under what circumstances. See Celine Dion or David Marshall (Carbine) Williams for examples.
It may seem trivial or have no apparent connection at first glance, but who is to say when all is said and done that it will not have impact elsewhere? Knifemakers are artists and like most people where they lived or were born can influence how they approach different things in life.
Keep in mind that in cleaning up this article the chronological events have not moved past 1997/1998. Nor have I had a chance to update it with Emerson Combat Systems and Mr Emerson's contributions to the Martial Arts world.
For the record, how many people do you know that were born in log cabins in the past 50 years?
Bottom line and it may be my attempt to clean this up is I'm trying to show how one event influences the next in an orderly fashion. Interest in Martial arts leads to Ernie needing a knife. Perhaps growing up in the country this mentality made people more resourceful than their urban counterparts. Why buy when you can make one? Had the man been born somewhere else, he may have simply bought an imported knife at the time and never become a knifemaker.
Thew aerospace connection shows how Mr Emerson had access to materials at a time when these were not generally available to other knifemakers, Ti, Carbon Fiber, etc. Also shows his background in engineering and design, etc. I can think of several other custom knifemakers who came from this field: DDR, Walker, and Ken Onion immediately come to mind. --Mike Searson 18:41, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Logos
I'm thinking a list of the different logos used over the years might be helpful to some readers...primarily someone who might find a knife in the drawer and is trying to figure out what it is.
Various logos have been used on Emerson's custom knives over the years.
- Bowie logo - the name "Emerson" contained within the shape of a Bowie Knife. (Rarest of all logos, maybe on less than 10 knives. Basically a purveyor asked Ernie if he made Bowies, Ernie said he didn't and the gentleman advised him to lose the logo or people would want Bowies from him.)
- Half Moon logo - Emerson's name in a half moon shaped design
(Rare but representing the logo found on Emersons from the mid 1980's through the early to mid 1990's)
- Viper logo - "Viper Knives"
(Only seen on the Vipers for a few years)
- Specwar logo - "Emerson Specwar Knives" and the gunsite
(Appeared in the mid 1990's on the tactical fixed blades, then on the folders and has been the best way to tell a handmade knife from a factory knife. It was discontinued in favor of the diamond logo but has superseded it and as of this writing is again the current logo on the custom knives)
- Diamond logo - "Emerson Custom Knives" contained in a diamond. This was originally to be used on a collaboration with an engraved collector firearm. It was used on the custom knives for a year and then dropped in favor of the more popular and recognizable specwar logo.
- EKI Logo - The stamp used on the factory knives was used on a handful of Devin Thomas damascus blades ground by Ernest. This logo generally indicates a production knife unless the steel in question is damascus.
Perhaps a separate stub? Thoughts? --Mike Searson 18:40, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Editing Background
I started editing what we have for this section. We need to find the name of the town or county where he was born and to stop making him out to be "Daniel Boone with a slide rule."
Maybe this could use more relevant background info; however, if you know him personally and know that he loves animals, is kind to women, sings in an eight-octave range, volunteers to work in a soup kitchen every Thanskgiving Day and his flatus smells like pumpkin pie - and you think all that is interesting - then please write a magazine article about him. Magazines do "interesting" profiles. Encyclopedias are supposed to be informative. Sam 07:56, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Nobody was making anyone out to be "Daniel Boone with a slide rule". I've known the man personally for over 20 years, I'm asking you for the last time...what exactly do you want me to put here? What type of documentation do you need to see? You admitted 3 times that you know nothing of Mr Emerson's knives or background yet insist on being some sort of moderator. This is not knifenetwork with it's 15 members.
If I put up where he was born will you demand to see birth certificates or threaten to throw it out for not being sourced?
Please point me to what you consider a perfect biography on Wikipedia so I can see what you're talking about, I have no use for your sarcastic tone. Also advise if you think Emerson Combat Systems needs to be split off to another stub, it may not gel with the rest of this article. --Mike Searson 08:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
