Talk:Eparchy of Križevci
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[edit] Zumbercani
Orthodox does not = Serb. Not then and certainly not today.
Some of these people may have been Serb 500 years ago. But these people sojourned in Bosnia before coming to Klis, then to Senj and then Zumberak (with a few stops in between). Some of the last names are Montengrin origin. But what we do not know is whether these people started in Serbia or Montenegro or did they come from further down in the Orthodox world (eg Albania, Romania and Greece). Saying that these people are "Serbs" is as incorrect as saying these people are originally from Grahovo.
At the very least, saying that the Eparchy of Krizevci presently includes "Serbs from Zumberak" is completely incorrect. There are few people among the Greek Catholics who identify themselves as Serbs.
It is interesting that the Zumbercani came to America and founded two Greek Catholic Churches (which were known as CROATIAN Byzantine Rite Churches). This indicates a self-identification of Croatian rather than Serbian.
[edit] Old title "Croatian Catholic Church"
I'm not sure why it is so categorically stated that Croatian Catholics use Old Church Slavonic language, because nowadays they don't do that. Well, either that or the Old Church Slavonic is exactly the same as Croatian, because I certainly heard no different language in the Catholic churches and elsewhere in Croatia. :)
Overall the idea of a Croatian Catholic Chuch being separate (but in full communion) from the others is a bit dubious to me given that the Croatian Bishops' Conference (http://www.hbk.hr/) refers to themselves as "Katolička crkva u Hrvatskoj", that is, "Catholic church in Croatia". I suppose that it could just be a question of semantics, though.
It is of course true that they are different from the rest ever since Pope Innocent IV granted Filip, the bishop of Senj, the right to use Old Church Slavonic and Glagolitic alphabet (the church here takes pride in the fact they were apparently the only ones with the privilege of not having to use the Latin language up until the second Vatican council). However, they do seem to use the Croatian language and Latin alphabet these days.
--Shallot 10:02, 9 Sep 2003 (EDT)
[edit] See also links
- See also Ustase, Ante Pavelic, Catholic Church and Politics
Oh, give me a break! This is incredible. First of all, only the first link exists. Secondly, to primarily associate them with a bunch of fascists is both ridiculous and offensive. I know that the idea of a clerofascist conspiracy is intriguing, but it's also entirely bonkers. The one working link, Ustase, is a page full of vicious insinuatious and at times outright lies. The Catholic Church is certainly no angel (sic), but the Greater-Serbian propaganda just goes way too far in demonizing it. And the reason why they do it should be obvious from the fact that the Croat Bishop Conference has a list of 1426 (!) church objects destroyed by the Serbs during their war against Croatia in the early 1990s ([1]). Correcting all these malicious fallacies on Wikipedia is proving to be a harrowing task. --Shallot 15:46, 10 Sep 2003 (UTC)
[edit] This page's title
Shallot, I am objecting to your term of the "Croat Catholic Church" of the Eastern Rite. There is no such thing, there does exist however a Uniate/Greek-Catholic/Eastern Rite Catholic Church under the bishopric of Krizevci but it is not Croat, its faithful are made up mostly of formerly Orthodox Serbs who were Uniatized following the 17th century, by the Marca Union of the Zumberak Serbs. It also includes some Ruthenian faithful. It does not use the Glagolithic alphabet. This page makes it quite clear, it is an official Vatican link [2] -- Igor 7:25, 20 Sep 2003 (UTC)
- It's not my term, I didn't create the page. Go ahead and rename it. --Shallot 11:13, 20 Sep 2003 (UTC)
- FWIW, I renamed it now. --Shallot 10:37, 21 Sep 2003 (UTC)
[edit] christening
- Today the eparchy includes between 50,000 and 77,000 Byzantine Catholics. However the last census in the Republic of Croatia, in 2001, listed only 6219 Greek-Catholics. This is owing to the fact that many have converted to Roman Catholicism outright. This might explain complaints by some Serb Greek Catholics that they were christened according to the Latin Rite against their will or knowledge.
I've removed the latter sentence because I don't see how this it makes any sense. Should it get restored, it needs to be rephrased to be relevant and attributed. --Joy [shallot] 13:05, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Žumberak
The Zagreb county census data includes a handful of places where ethnic Serbs are numerous, mostly cities, and no places actually in Žumberak with more than a hundred ethnic Serbs, so I'm not sure if we have a disparity in toponyms here or something like that. Križevci is about a hundred kilometers northeast from Žumberak. --Joy [shallot] 13:13, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
